Drivetrain Sprintex
6th Gear
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,836
Likes: 6
From: North Denver Colorado
I'm back from my weekend duty, and really didnt know much of what was going on, so I finaly got through the posts and emails.
blumini, again sorry for your loss.
But glad to see that the problem is being handled.
daveke, you are a MADMAN! 1320 knows their stuff, so I am crossing my fingers that its done right the first time, with good results.
Mark, put the 70mm pulley on and get the car tuned to perfection before doing the 64mm. You will be happy with this setup IMHO.
Everyone else, I had a thought (inside of a drunken hase) over the weekend. The SPRINTEX peaks power earlyer in the RPM's than any other kit on the market. Maby with the 64mm installed it's making too much boost too early, and the ECU needs way more mdification in this area than most people are willing to deal with. My car was great, the entire time the 70mm was on the car, and I had NO isues until after installing the 64mm. Needless to say when my car runs again I am starting over. No E85, and back to the 70mm, until I learn more of what I am doing, and what went wrong. I hope to be working all angles, on what happened, and as long as EVERYBODY can keep things civil (and with an open mind, no tuner on tuner battle!) I am open to WHOEVER wants to chime in.
blumini, again sorry for your loss.
But glad to see that the problem is being handled.daveke, you are a MADMAN! 1320 knows their stuff, so I am crossing my fingers that its done right the first time, with good results.
Mark, put the 70mm pulley on and get the car tuned to perfection before doing the 64mm. You will be happy with this setup IMHO.
Everyone else, I had a thought (inside of a drunken hase) over the weekend. The SPRINTEX peaks power earlyer in the RPM's than any other kit on the market. Maby with the 64mm installed it's making too much boost too early, and the ECU needs way more mdification in this area than most people are willing to deal with. My car was great, the entire time the 70mm was on the car, and I had NO isues until after installing the 64mm. Needless to say when my car runs again I am starting over. No E85, and back to the 70mm, until I learn more of what I am doing, and what went wrong. I hope to be working all angles, on what happened, and as long as EVERYBODY can keep things civil (and with an open mind, no tuner on tuner battle!) I am open to WHOEVER wants to chime in.
market. Maby with the 64mm installed it's making too much boost too early, and the ECU needs way more mdification in this area than most people are willing to deal with. My car was great, the entire time the 70mm was on the car, and I had NO isues until after installing the 64mm. Needless to say when my car runs again I am starting over. No E85, and back to the 70mm, until I learn more of what I am doing, and what went wrong. I hope to be working all angles, on what happened, and as long as EVERYBODY can keep things civil (and with an open mind, no tuner on tuner battle!) I am open to WHOEVER wants to chime in.
6th Gear
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,836
Likes: 6
From: North Denver Colorado
(The BPV mod is the same as the VGS mod, not really an issue with most cars.)
4th Gear
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 413
Likes: 0
From: Brisbane, Australia
Randy you have stated in the above post that there were no negative issues BUT you would do so if you hear of any. You have heard of them so could you please answer to the good blokes on NAM?
Reading all of this makes me wonder if I would be better off sticking with the normal 70 mm pulley.. Think Think.. 
I just cant get my mind over the fact that pistons 2 and 3 got fried with blumini's while AFR was correct all the time. That should suggest the tune IS correct. Could it have something to do with the placing of the knock-sensor? IAT getting too hot and causing knock? ECU not picking this up cause of different placement of the sensor and thus damaging the engine? I'm kind of a n00b in this, so dont blame me for these silly questions..
I just cant get my mind over the fact that pistons 2 and 3 got fried with blumini's while AFR was correct all the time. That should suggest the tune IS correct. Could it have something to do with the placing of the knock-sensor? IAT getting too hot and causing knock? ECU not picking this up cause of different placement of the sensor and thus damaging the engine? I'm kind of a n00b in this, so dont blame me for these silly questions..
Daveke, you bring up a valid point about the knock sensor position, not sure why they chose the location they did.
Anyway, hopefully some good will come out of this--at the very least, what parameters you can and can't use to make the Sprintex work reliably on your car. Once that's been determined, then IMHO people will have a better idea if this is the way to go versus alternatives (BVH, Cam, Header, the old standbuys).
6th Gear
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,521
Likes: 17
Where was the knock sensor on the 1st Gen Sprintex?? Ian had it on his car I believe...
We the customers are not supposed to be the Guinea pigs!!
Has anyone talked with the Mynes guys to know if their cars with the SC and different pulleys are still living, and being driven?? Since they were the testers on this...
We the customers are not supposed to be the Guinea pigs!!
Has anyone talked with the Mynes guys to know if their cars with the SC and different pulleys are still living, and being driven?? Since they were the testers on this...
Basically I've got every upgrade possible lying on my table here ready for thursday. BVH, ATI pulley, Cam, CAI, Plugs, Sprintex, Oil Cooler, M7 Thermostat, GRS IC, Manifolds. When thats all on we're doing a SLOW (no over 3500 rpm and hard accelerations) drive over to England. That means on 380 injectors, with the current tune on. When in England the 550's will go in and it will have a custom Mynes-remap (NO remote) with AFR-monitoring. I'll discuss the pulley thing with them over there and see what we can work out, to maybe stick a 64 mm on. 60 would be too much is what I've heard so far. It would build 1,4 Bar of boost (and thats not calculated with the 1% ATI pulley)
6th Gear
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,607
Likes: 316
From: Arnold, MO.
That's all well and good, but the kit was marketed as fully tested, ready to install on a stock engine; the whole point was that they weren't treating their customers as "guinea pigs".
Daveke, you bring up a valid point about the knock sensor position, not sure why they chose the location they did.
Anyway, hopefully some good will come out of this--at the very least, what parameters you can and can't use to make the Sprintex work reliably on your car. Once that's been determined, then IMHO people will have a better idea if this is the way to go versus alternatives (BVH, Cam, Header, the old standbuys).
Daveke, you bring up a valid point about the knock sensor position, not sure why they chose the location they did.
Anyway, hopefully some good will come out of this--at the very least, what parameters you can and can't use to make the Sprintex work reliably on your car. Once that's been determined, then IMHO people will have a better idea if this is the way to go versus alternatives (BVH, Cam, Header, the old standbuys).
This is a point that I made in the thread that was deleted, IMO, The Sprintex kit as sold and advertised is a truly viable alternative to the M45, with compairable boost levels to the M45 / 15% pulley combo and also having performance enhancing benefits due to it's efficiency. And as far as Sprintex using us as guinea pigs, the whole thing had nothing to do with the company and that is why they try to discourage the use of the 64 & 60mm pulleys by the avg. consumers by removing the warranty.
As far as I know at this time there has been "0" failures of either the Sprintex or engines when the kit is installed as sold with the 70mm pulley.
Where was the knock sensor on the 1st Gen Sprintex?? Ian had it on his car I believe...
We the customers are not supposed to be the Guinea pigs!!
Has anyone talked with the Mynes guys to know if their cars with the SC and different pulleys are still living, and being driven?? Since they were the testers on this...
We the customers are not supposed to be the Guinea pigs!!
Has anyone talked with the Mynes guys to know if their cars with the SC and different pulleys are still living, and being driven?? Since they were the testers on this...
Here's my very simplistic view on the whole thing, all of the failures so far have been engine failures, therefore the Sprintex is so far a good piece of machinery, maybe too good, realisticly here we're talking about 18 to 19psi of boost on what were stock lower end engines, my unlearned opinion is that maybe (unfortanately for some) we finally have a real world answer to the question "How much boost can you put into an avg. Stock 1.6". if you noticed I said "Avg." since we all know that every engine is different yes maybe some will be able to handle this much "strain" and of course some won't. Personally for me I think we've found that edge that we all look for when seeking as much as we can from our cars. If I remember correctly the rule of thumb had always been " No more than 19 to 20psi on a stock bottom, but how many engines were truly tested to get that info? and up untill now how many people truly tested this on a stock lower end, as far as I know most of the people that were even coming close to this amount of boost were either Twincharged or Turbo only and if I'm correct most of those people "did" do internal engine modifications up front simply because they were warned to do so.
Frankly I think some or most of us got caught up in the whole "possibility of it" while forgetting the "real world of it", I KNOW I DID, and I'll be the first to admit it, honestly I see myself as lucky it took so long for me to get my parts.
As for me, I've already contacted my supplier so that I can get a 70mm pulley and belt for now ( since I still have to drive the car everyday, the amount of miles that is on it, and yes I still think it will be far more fun that way than the M45 ever was.) Then when I finally have another vehicle to drive I'm doing a complete rebuild and of course changing the pulley's.
I'll put it on a dyno to see what the improvements are with the factory setup as soon as I can. And since I tend to put 25,000 miles a yaer on my car maybe I can help to answer the longevity question also.
Last edited by BlwnAway; Sep 29, 2011 at 02:00 AM.
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,446
Likes: 10
From: L.A ca
Randy since you have been so kind to ask for links to failures you have another one right here. Could you please explain this?
Randy you have stated in the above post that there were no negative issues BUT you would do so if you hear of any. You have heard of them so could you please answer to the good blokes on NAM?
Randy you have stated in the above post that there were no negative issues BUT you would do so if you hear of any. You have heard of them so could you please answer to the good blokes on NAM?
I posted that so long ago I forgot that the question was never answered , was there ever a link to " all " those failures found ?
As for the two issues here I have never met either of the two members in question but I believe Blumini is one of the fourteen we have sold to date. I am in the same boat as everyone here and have never even seen either of their cars and I think anything I might add to the conversation would only be unfounded guess work and there is more than enough of that going on as it is
Randy you have stated in the above post that there were no negative issues BUT you would do so if you hear of any. You have heard of them so could you please answer to the good blokes on NAM?
The two cars which I do have direct knowledge of and are the ones which I promised to keep you all updated are on working fine to date. This includes the system in the r-53 automatic and the daily driven CARB test vehicle . This car is still running completely stock with the exception of the Sprintex system as per CARB regulations . I can tell you that even in this form is was capable of disappointing the owner of a nicely prepped R-56 in a way that no stock r-53 could ever do
Thanks for your questions ,
Randy
M7 tuning
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,446
Likes: 10
From: L.A ca
Sorry it took so long but it is a busy time in the studios these days and I don't get as much time to come and play with you all as I used to You do seem quite interested and if you like I could put you on the mailing list .
Randy
M7 Tuning
You do seem quite interested and if you like I could put you on the mailing list .Randy
M7 Tuning
3rd Gear
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 243
Likes: 0
From: Northern California
As for the two issues here I have never met either of the two members in question but I believe Blumini is one of the fourteen we have sold to date. I am in the same boat as everyone here and have never even seen either of their cars and I think anything I might add to the conversation would only be unfounded guess work and there is more than enough of that going on as it is
Randy
M7 tuning
Randy
M7 tuning
Just wanted to say from a tuning POV, doing a remote tune is risky with this setup. The intinial tip in throttle and afr tuning could break the car with a 64mm pulley on the dyno. I mean how many times are you going to detonate or run lean until you find that AFR sweetspot and timing you are happy with. By then the damage is probably already done.
If it was my car I'd take it to AutoMaster in NY or Evans Tuning in PA or any other well known local to you Haltech, Motec, AEM tuner who doesn't specialize in just 1 make but any car using the system. I would not be sitting on the phone,emailing back and forth. Think outside the box and get a real system and well known world tuner. It should cost you total $2000 for a standalone EMS and real pro tune. $800-1000 for Haltech Interceptor or AEM F/IC piggybacks and pro tune.
The current option is on one hand you have a vested company with there mediocre/overpriced software to tune a stubborn ECU what seems like there joint venture Sprintex system. On the other hand you have the competitor who only tunes m45s and Rotrex. And as if he'd want the Sprintex to take off over his future products or possibly risk blowing the persons car up because of not knowing how to tune the new blower system.
Anyways from experience anytime I've added FI to N/A cars OR raise 5+ PSI on factory supercharged cars, let alone using a different blower size and design, I have always upgraded to Precision or Injector Dynamics Injectors(whatever was on sale), Walbro 255 fuel pump and an Aeromotive FPR as a must. I've seen many cases where people upgrade to just 450-550cc and not upgrade anything else, pop and have the same diagnosis found in the engine like Blumini just stated. In some cases factory pumps will cut flow if it gets too hot or overworked causing a lean condition across the board.
I have questions for D**K's Garage and BluMini at the end of tuning:
What injectors were being used? CC or LB/HR at?
What was the maximum Injector Duty Cycle? and pulse width?
What fuel pump was used? What is the flow rate of that pump?
What was timing set at?
Were any of you datalogging during the failure?
If it was my car I'd take it to AutoMaster in NY or Evans Tuning in PA or any other well known local to you Haltech, Motec, AEM tuner who doesn't specialize in just 1 make but any car using the system. I would not be sitting on the phone,emailing back and forth. Think outside the box and get a real system and well known world tuner. It should cost you total $2000 for a standalone EMS and real pro tune. $800-1000 for Haltech Interceptor or AEM F/IC piggybacks and pro tune.
The current option is on one hand you have a vested company with there mediocre/overpriced software to tune a stubborn ECU what seems like there joint venture Sprintex system. On the other hand you have the competitor who only tunes m45s and Rotrex. And as if he'd want the Sprintex to take off over his future products or possibly risk blowing the persons car up because of not knowing how to tune the new blower system.
Anyways from experience anytime I've added FI to N/A cars OR raise 5+ PSI on factory supercharged cars, let alone using a different blower size and design, I have always upgraded to Precision or Injector Dynamics Injectors(whatever was on sale), Walbro 255 fuel pump and an Aeromotive FPR as a must. I've seen many cases where people upgrade to just 450-550cc and not upgrade anything else, pop and have the same diagnosis found in the engine like Blumini just stated. In some cases factory pumps will cut flow if it gets too hot or overworked causing a lean condition across the board.
I have questions for D**K's Garage and BluMini at the end of tuning:
What injectors were being used? CC or LB/HR at?
What was the maximum Injector Duty Cycle? and pulse width?
What fuel pump was used? What is the flow rate of that pump?
What was timing set at?
Were any of you datalogging during the failure?
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,446
Likes: 10
From: L.A ca
Randy
M7 tuning
3rd Gear
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 243
Likes: 0
From: Northern California
Was this recently ? In all honesty I do not recall your car but I have meet hundreds of Mini owners there in the past 9 years . I've spent way too much time there , just ask my wife. I do not recall talking to anyone there with a blue mini with regards to Sprintex though could it have been some other topic ?
Randy
M7 tuning
Randy
M7 tuning
Glad to see I made such a lasting impression.
This help?
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,446
Likes: 10
From: L.A ca
Good looking car ! I should remember the grills and splitter at least
Did you have a end plate come off the wing at one point? I seem to recall something along those lines . AARP = semi decent memory unfortunatly . Randy
M7 Tuning
6th Gear
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,836
Likes: 6
From: North Denver Colorado
Sorry for the size (dont know why I cant just copy and paste screen captures.) This log was taken as the engine went. My AFR's went a bit leaner than usual when I filled the tank from an E85 station that I rarely use. I was working on smoothing out some of the timing (2nd from bottom green line, mostly overlapping the other 3 colors that I have set up for individual CYL advance.)
Fuel injectors are the BOSCH 550cc/min (sold by both MYNES, and RMW)
New stock pump, factory regulator, and lines.
Injector duty % on E85 was up to 68% until I had it dump fuel at 6900RPM.
Fuel injectors are the BOSCH 550cc/min (sold by both MYNES, and RMW)
New stock pump, factory regulator, and lines.
Injector duty % on E85 was up to 68% until I had it dump fuel at 6900RPM.
3rd Gear
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 243
Likes: 0
From: Northern California
It would be nice if this little issue works itself out as well as that did.
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 3,446
Likes: 10
From: L.A ca
Randy
M7 Tuning
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,362
Likes: 1
From: Winston-Salem, NC
This is a point that I made in the thread that was deleted, IMO, The Sprintex kit as sold and advertised is a truly viable alternative to the M45, with compairable boost levels to the M45 / 15% pulley combo and also having performance enhancing benefits due to it's efficiency. And as far as Sprintex using us as guinea pigs, the whole thing had nothing to do with the company and that is why they try to discourage the use of the 64 & 60mm pulleys by the avg. consumers by removing the warranty.
As far as I know at this time there has been "0" failures of either the Sprintex or engines when the kit is installed as sold with the 70mm pulley.
Yes their car and a couple of others are fine which leads me to this:
Here's my very simplistic view on the whole thing, all of the failures so far have been engine failures, therefore the Sprintex is so far a good piece of machinery, maybe too good, realisticly here we're talking about 18 to 19psi of boost on what were stock lower end engines, my unlearned opinion is that maybe (unfortanately for some) we finally have a real world answer to the question "How much boost can you put into an avg. Stock 1.6". if you noticed I said "Avg." since we all know that every engine is different yes maybe some will be able to handle this much "strain" and of course some won't. Personally for me I think we've found that edge that we all look for when seeking as much as we can from our cars. If I remember correctly the rule of thumb had always been " No more than 19 to 20psi on a stock bottom, but how many engines were truly tested to get that info? and up untill now how many people truly tested this on a stock lower end, as far as I know most of the people that were even coming close to this amount of boost were either Twincharged or Turbo only and if I'm correct most of those people "did" do internal engine modifications up front simply because they were warned to do so.
Frankly I think some or most of us got caught up in the whole "possibility of it" while forgetting the "real world of it", I KNOW I DID, and I'll be the first to admit it, honestly I see myself as lucky it took so long for me to get my parts.
As for me, I've already contacted my supplier so that I can get a 70mm pulley and belt for now ( since I still have to drive the car everyday, the amount of miles that is on it, and yes I still think it will be far more fun that way than the M45 ever was.) Then when I finally have another vehicle to drive I'm doing a complete rebuild and of course changing the pulley's.
I'll put it on a dyno to see what the improvements are with the factory setup as soon as I can. And since I tend to put 25,000 miles a yaer on my car maybe I can help to answer the longevity question also.
Due to what is going on I shouldn't say this and will probably get crucified for it but "Wonder what a 67mm pulley would be like?"
(Bad Mini Owner, Bad 
)
As far as I know at this time there has been "0" failures of either the Sprintex or engines when the kit is installed as sold with the 70mm pulley.
Yes their car and a couple of others are fine which leads me to this:
Here's my very simplistic view on the whole thing, all of the failures so far have been engine failures, therefore the Sprintex is so far a good piece of machinery, maybe too good, realisticly here we're talking about 18 to 19psi of boost on what were stock lower end engines, my unlearned opinion is that maybe (unfortanately for some) we finally have a real world answer to the question "How much boost can you put into an avg. Stock 1.6". if you noticed I said "Avg." since we all know that every engine is different yes maybe some will be able to handle this much "strain" and of course some won't. Personally for me I think we've found that edge that we all look for when seeking as much as we can from our cars. If I remember correctly the rule of thumb had always been " No more than 19 to 20psi on a stock bottom, but how many engines were truly tested to get that info? and up untill now how many people truly tested this on a stock lower end, as far as I know most of the people that were even coming close to this amount of boost were either Twincharged or Turbo only and if I'm correct most of those people "did" do internal engine modifications up front simply because they were warned to do so.
Frankly I think some or most of us got caught up in the whole "possibility of it" while forgetting the "real world of it", I KNOW I DID, and I'll be the first to admit it, honestly I see myself as lucky it took so long for me to get my parts.
As for me, I've already contacted my supplier so that I can get a 70mm pulley and belt for now ( since I still have to drive the car everyday, the amount of miles that is on it, and yes I still think it will be far more fun that way than the M45 ever was.) Then when I finally have another vehicle to drive I'm doing a complete rebuild and of course changing the pulley's.
I'll put it on a dyno to see what the improvements are with the factory setup as soon as I can. And since I tend to put 25,000 miles a yaer on my car maybe I can help to answer the longevity question also.
Due to what is going on I shouldn't say this and will probably get crucified for it but "Wonder what a 67mm pulley would be like?"
(Bad Mini Owner, Bad )Just wanted to say from a tuning POV, doing a remote tune is risky with this setup. The intinial tip in throttle and afr tuning could break the car with a 64mm pulley on the dyno. I mean how many times are you going to detonate or run lean until you find that AFR sweetspot and timing you are happy with. By then the damage is probably already done.
Bottom line, if you want your mini to be reliable, keep the boost stock. Want more power, then open your pockets and be prepared for what's coming. That's the name of the game.