Our fits perfectly fine on our 2010 Mini Cooper S!

 

Thanks for soothing my worried brow Jeff. lol

I can't think of anything worse than pulling the front of the car off and finding out the intercooler doesn't fit.

 

How about: Pulling the front end off, trying to fit the new intercooler, racking your brain as to why the pictures in the instructions are way off, then trying to see if there is a way to make it fit. Seems close, but not willing to leave it like that. Put the car back together, then contact forge, they want pictures... so again the car comes apart for pictures, then back together to drive it, then once they figure out the new version, it will need to come apart again?

I am actually getting good at taking the front apart, it is just a pain, and now dad has 4 Piaa's mounted on the front, so those have to come off before the bumper cover can.

I emailed forge again yesterday, asking them if there was "any update on when the 2010 version would be available". Here is the response:

"Not at the moment Jeremy."

So who knows when it will be available.

 

Ok Jeff, I do have a question on the info provided in the links you posted.

Both the Forge and the Helix, since they have the step, are 25% bigger than the Alta, and both show reduction in temps around 20 degrees +/- a few.

Your testing shows around 45+ degree drop. Here is where I do not understand how this is possible, but if you could possibly offer any thoughts as why, it would be a big help in determining which IC I should finally use.

From the info above, and from what forge and helix say, their IC's are 250% bigger than stock, and yours is 200%. So their IC's are 25% bigger, due to the step, than yours, but your's cools 200% of what theirs can, by the tests. I know yours is wider, but only by an inch or so, correct? Does that make that much difference? Since the Stock IC is behind some of the bottom bumper section, and their step is also, and that is an area that does not get air passing over it, is it "holding'" more heat down there, and only cooling the top section, then getting heated slightly again before exiting the IC? Is it the same issue with larger IC's on the R53, that they are bigger, and thus take longer to cool once heatsoaked? Or am I interpreting this all incorrectly?

 

The step doesn't make them bigger unless they really are. Where did you get the info about the size of their core vs ours? Our core is taller and wider then also 1.75" thick the whole way. From my estimations there were slightly smaller. But i have never measured one. Do you know their dimensions?

Well there are few things that can contribute. First off my data is collected right off the ECU using our new AccessPORT, not using aftermarket temp probes which may not be very fast acting. The OEM sensors are pretty fast. I just wanted to make sure that was said first.

1. Since our intercooler fills the entire grill, we get the maximum about of core exposed to the ambient air flow.

2. Air gets distributed equally across our core also providing better cooling.
The fat part of the other cores, is in that area below the bumper where not much ambient air flow gets to. Also since this fatter part is less restricitve than the thinner part, air is going to flow through that lower fat part more than the thinner area.

I have never seen where helix says theirs is 250% bigger than stock? This from Helix's site and posts.
Helix Design:
More core volume than stock- Yes 50%
More Ambient face than stock- Yes 53%

ALTA Design
This is from our Site and posts:
Our internal volume is 2 times bigger than stock.
Ambient square inches are 2.9 time bigger than stock.

We even use their info they provide to help sell ours. Now i don't know which is correct. I estimated their core dimension and i got pretty close to thier 50% larger or 1.5 times the size of stock. So i went with their own specs.

Regarding your thoughts about heat soak. That really is only an issue where there is no air flowing over the intercooler. So theirs could have issues in that regard.

 

To add to that, 20F drop is not that much. I mean the crazy 150F temps coming out of that OEM core are mostly do to the Intercooler being covered up. With our old R56 diverter we made, we saw charge temps improve by about 10-15F. That is just taking the current potential air flow and diverting it knocked off 10-15, so making a core that is 50% bigger, could net another 10 on top of that. Since ours is 200% bigger, its a bigger drop.

 

I do not have the dimentions, just what I saw on forges site, and I assumed the helix would be the same, if not close, due to the design similarites. Yes I see now that it is not 250% bigger per se, just 250% more surface area.
from Forges website: "This intercooler is constructed using a combined 80/40mm high thermal efficiency core, with a 250% larger surface area and a 125% thicker base core"

makes sense. I did not see how the fat part on the bottom could be getting a lot of air through it, because of the bumper partially blocking it. I think I like your design better. I think that not having the step would also allow a smoother airflow up to the upper bars, since your endtanks are nice and contoured.

 

Jeff, thank you for all the info. It has made my decision easier, and you have my order, thank you.


To all the others with a 2010, and thinking of the Forge, I got another response when I asked them if there was ANY ETA on the update IC:

"Not likely to happen in the next few months to be honest. We are planning to address it but that's about all I have at the moment."

To me, this is actually pretty poor business practice. I bought their IC when they thought that it fit(nice of them to just assume that it fit a 2010 without testing), I find out it does not fit, send them all the pictures and explaination of where it does not fit, and now, it is going to be likely into next year untill they are able to change a few tab locations?? Unacceptable.

All in all, I am actually happy that they did so, giving me the time to find an IC that I see should work better.

 

So when we say its 200% bigger in volume, its LxWxH. Simple as that. Then when we say the surface area is larger, we only use LxH. That is how we have always done it.

Glad we answered your question and got you taken care of! Thanks for the order!

 

I completely agree. Did you purchase directely from Forge? It's amazing that somebody can pay near $800 for something and it's just brushed off like, yeah....I guess that we'll get to it at some point. In the meantime, we'll just continue to sell these to people with 2010's knowing that they won't fit so as to exhaust our current stock.

I purchased mine through Way at WayMotorWorks and I hope that he will stand behind Forge's inability to deliver something to fit as intended. It's more princinple than anything for me. I know it will work but they didn't do their homework. You have to do your homework if you want to survive in the aftermarket. No excuses...

 

I got mine from Way also. But I was also in contact with Forge directly too. Give Way a call, he will take care of it i'm sure.

 

Thanks Raven. Interesting. He sold it to me knowing that it wouldn't fit the right way. He knows that I have a 2010 and ensured the fitment. Guaranteed that your "returned" intercooler was the one that I got. I'll have a chat with him tomorrow. That is not acceptable. Maybe I'll go with the Alta and pick up the AccessPort at the same time.

 

I also have a 2010 cooper s and is interested in the Helix intercooler.
Has anyone fitted the Helix IC on their 2010 model yet?
Does the Helix IC have the same problem as the Forge on 2010 cooper s?

 

Don't forget ours fits! The extra 20min it takes to install is worth the proven performance (HP and temp drops). But while we are on the subject, what makes you want to purchase the Helix or Forge over ours? Not tying to come across as argumentative, just want to understand what customers are looking for. Or maybe we didn't do a good job of telling customers about our part.

 

For me there were a couple of reasons (I have your intercooler, but bough a forge to replace it). The fitting on the hot side of the intercooler is too short. It makes it very difficult to attach the hose as the clamp wants to be right where the hose passes through the plastic shroud. Also, because you do not use a stepped core I felt the air flow was not a good. With a stepped core, you can take better advantage of the fan to pull air through. I also don't like the idea of the intercooler just floating around in there, it would be nice if there were a couple of mounting tabs.

Jeff, on an unrelated note, I send you a message via email about custom tuning for my car. Not sure if you got that or not... I don't have your email, I had to send it through NAM.

 

Mounting tabs for sure is something we have talked about but it fits so nice there and doesn't move at all. But part of that has to do with the couplers being pulled to the intercooler creating the tension that keeps it in place. But for sure something to consider.

So the step core gives people the impression that it flows more? Interesting. i still think there is some misinformation out there about the volume of the Helix and Forge core compared to stock. Their numbers are somewhat contradicting to what i have seen. I would still like to know the actual dimensions of the cores so we can put this to rest. Interesting and great feedback for sure!

Remember the fans don't really come on under normal conditions unless your AC is on or the coolant temps are way way up!

I did get your email and responded back. Hope you got that!

 

The intercooler came today, and I just finished installing it.

Just a couple of things, none critical. You do have to fit and Dremel, fit and Dremel. Finally you get to a point where you can get the hoses to fit without the clamp parts hitting anything. I didn't have to touch the stock IC mounting tab on the passenger side. Then you have to make a couple of new holes so you can tighten the clamps.


Then there is trimming the grill insert. The only part I didn't understand or do was the other trimming. My cover seems to fit snuggly, and i couldn't see where I should trim to make it fit any better?

Anyway, Started up, no CE lights, no weird noises... Off for a drive.

With the stock IC intake temp used to be about 6F above the ambient temp. and took a while to come down after you back off. Now it's 2-3 above and really does drop like a rock when you let off. So I guess it works like advertised.

 

I bet you are not reading the temp in the boost tube. The charge temps should be quite a bit higher than ambient. But overall awesome! The clamps should be reachable but either way didn't seem like you spent to much time to get it to fit!

 

Dremel with a milling bit... Besides, all I cut was plastic, and looks like it's easily replacable.

There is a small misalignment of the black trim parts at the wheel opening. I wonder of that because I didn't trim the grill mounts, and it's pushing the bottom of the cover out a bit?

 

Anyone know how to determine charge temp via scangauge? Or does the mini not monitor it.

 

I use the IAT on the scan gauge. (Intake air temp) One of the std things. I don't know where that is measured, but it's on the OBD2 "bus" so I would thing the ECU uses that.

 

I'm pretty sure IAT on the Scangauge is after the IC. During boost, the temp jumps up really high with my stock IC. It could be the sensor that sits on the headers that most people use to tap for boost pressure.

 

The sensor that the ECU reads for IAT is located along the passenger side. It sits in the hard stock intake tube that goes from the cold side of the intercooler (after the intercooler) over to the "cold side boost tube" and then to the intake manifold. The sensor is both a temp as well as pressure sensor. This is not the same as the sensor that people tap for boost pressure, that is further back in the engine bay and is only a pressure sensor.

 

Wait a min... intake is first, then MAF (which does both temp and pressure #2), boost tubes, turbo, hotside tubes, Intercooler, coldside (#1) then engine...




Lets not confuse anyone here...

Does IAF function read temp from the electronic monitor from 1 or 2. I always thought it was 2 (MAF)

 

I was referring to the intake manifold. To my knowledge, the MAF does not have any way to tell the temperature. The density of the air affects the MAF output, but that is not temp directly. The IAT the ECU uses, is read from your #1.

EDIT: I edited my previous post to indicate intake manifold.