Alright, around mid-July, I got a custom P&Ped head and a NS2 Camshaft installed in my 2002 MCS w/ 116K on it. Bare with me, this story is a journey. As soon as the install was done, P0301 Cylinder 1 Misfire. Cleared the code, checked the plugs and everything seemed to be fine and dandy. Drove home, engine starts acting like hell, stalling at stop signs and traffic lights, intense rumbling in my car and stumbling, hesitation. Drove back the next day, turns out my spark plug was completely screwed up, threading was ripped off the SPARK PLUG. Replaced the plugs with NGK IX 7 colder plugs, and replace the ignition coil pack as well as the coil wires. Everything seemed to be fine, until I drove out of the mechanics. Codes throw again, but this time it was a P0172 System Too Rich (Bank 1). Thinking this was just a tune issue, I leave to get it tuned. Engine starts to stall at lights and stumbles again.

Get my tune to fix my P0172 issue as well as the stalling issue. Not to mention before I got the tune, I did a compression test and the results yielded 130, 140, 160, 160. My car still produced 220whp and 198 wtq. The stalling issue was gone and no more codes read out again. Engine light eventually came back on, but I have no code reader and the car was running fine, so I drove back to San Diego.

Fast forward to this past Wednesday, my car starts acting up again. Like I said the CEL is still on, and when I would come to some complete stops, when my car sits for a few minutes at a light, the CEL flashes, and the car feels like it literally dropped to running on two cylinders. Turn the car off/on, and if I start driving immediately it drives fine. I go to a local place in San Diego to do a Leakdown test. The results yielded -30%, -15%, -10%, -10%; keep in mind my compression was a bit low on the first two cylinders too, this might explain it? I and everyone else seem to be stumped.

So I ask, can anyone PLEASE help me resolve this issue. No one seems to know whats going on, mechanics at BMW and mechanics out of BMW don't know, tuners don't seem to know everyone in the world does not seem to know. These are the different ideas I and other mechanics have come to:

OBDII codes:
P0301: Cylinder 1 Misfire
P0172: System Too Rich (Bank 1)
ASC Light comes on after few minutes.

- Swapped coil pack, coil wires, and spark plugs (3 times)
- With the leakdown test's results, it does not appear to be anything wrong with the headwork (actually got the headwork done from a guy in the Honda community, well respected guy)
- O2 sensors were running and accurate when I got my tune, from what I hear its either working or not at all.
- Fuel Injectors ran consistently when I got my tune.
- I'm never running out of fuel. Fuel filter was changed in January, could that be a problem?
- ECU software was updated and did not read funny or anything.
- Granted my compression is low, but my car is running like its only running on 3 cylinders.
- No leakage in the coolant or oil, no milky colored oil or anything. Oil level and coolant levels are good too.
- From what I've read, if two adjacent cylinders (for my example, 1&2) have lower compression than the other two, it could be some sort of sealing issue during the installation of the head. So maybe? The leakdown test showed some leakage there too...so?
- Asked several mechanics like I said, and they all seem to think the parts are all fine, that from the problems I'm having it could be a sealing issue of some sort.
***One BMW tech noted that he saw a similar issue to where the head was not torqued down properly? In the bentley and haynes manuals there are two stages to installing the head, stage 1 is at 30 lbft, and stage 2 is at a angle-tighten 90 degrees. and the last few bolts at 20 lbft. From what I recall I just saw the guy torque the head down from the bottom of the torque wrench setting all the way up, and did not use an angler. So it makes some sense. But we will see as I am going back on Tuesday to check it out.

SO PLEASE CAN ANYONE SHED LIGHT ON THIS ISSUE?!

I really do not believe my low compression on the first two cylinders can cause this much disaster. A friend of mine has a compression of 90, 160, 155, 160 and his car doesn't run as horrible as mine. Please I'm begging anyone out there that has an idea to PLEASE help me out. Possible donation at hand. PLEASE!!!!!



SOLVED!!!!! It was the freaking TMAP sensor infront of the IC!!!!!!

 

Also I got the head installation work done at Steve's Auto Clinic off Nordhoff near Burbank, CA. He's respected in the MINI community as far as mechanic work goes. So I need to go back and see if he can help me out.

 

I think you answered your own question. As soon as the car starting having problems, you should have taken it back to the installer/builder. Was there ever a dyno test/tune right after the head was installed? New head studs not properly torqued down will cause some of these issues you are seeing as well. I'm really surprised that your head builder didn't follow those torque settings.

 

Well from my knowledge and sight, I didn't seem to notice him using a torque angler wrench thing. I just remember him telling me that he had to go all the way up the torque wrench. My head builder and head installer is actually two different people, but I think the head is fine. I have a 90 day warranty for parts and labor, considering the installer provided the gasket and labor this should be covered.

I really didn't think of the install at first just because this guy is pretty respected from all sorts of reviews. Any other ideas? Thanks for the feedback!!

I'm just trying to figure out a full-proof method to fix this problem of course without throwing my $$$ into it.

 

It worked fine till the head install.....
So get the orgional mechanic to check his work!! The fact it has NOW been tuned makes it much harder to fix..the tune might be masking so issues...Heads have been known to fail...you might have gotten a bad one even!! Or you might have an leak of some type...like I said, have the work checked, since it has never run right since the tune!! Any shop, even the best, can have an occasional oopps!!! The fact you did other stuff to the car while it still ran like crap muddies the water a bit....
The best way to do it would be to re-flash the original tune to it....and trouble shoot it...get it running well, and then the TUNE MIGHT work ok....but since it was tuned with an issue, it will likely be sub-optimal. Hopefully you bought the flash tool, so you can re-install the tune...
Nice numbers....but a tune cannot fix a mechanical issue....it will only mask it, and make it harder to diagnose!! So use how the car ran BEFORE the tune as your info on what to look for!!
Good Luck!!

One thing....when did you add the injectors? at the tune or when you did the head....a MINI will run pretty poorly with bigger than JCW injectors until a tune...that might be part of why it was running so bad....

 

Thanks Zippy! Yea I'm totally going to the mechanic on tuesday.. I mean I agree the tune might have covered some stuff up, but it leads me to think mechanical work just because the exact same issues came back up after the tune too. I mean a tune is programming so if it still runs like garbage afterwards, then it has to be mechanical. No one seems to suspect the head to the problem, I just really hope the mechanic doesn't try to blame it on the head and won't honor the re-install. Yikes. Thanks zippy!


Has anyone else have this happen to their car?!

 

A torque angle is only needed with OEM head bolts (torque to yield). If ARP or comparable bolts or studs were used, the head is torqued in stages to the final value, no torque angle at the end.

You can speculate till the cows come home, but you must remove the head and inspect gasket seal, plus pistons, cylinder bore, valves, etc. That is, if you performed a wet and dry compression test, and it was inconclusive. One cylinder is more than 15% different than two others, that's a red flag, and should be investigated, regardless of what other symptoms have manifested. The installer can't be blamed if a valve or valve seat is not concentric, or a hydraulic lash adjuster is stuck not allowing the valve to close (low probability). At the very least you need to pull the valve cover.

Is the leaking cylinder the same one that spit the spark plug?

 

I am assuming they did a dry leakdown test? a dry leakdown is exactly that, pull the coil and do one cylinder at a time. turn the key for no less then 10seconds to get your reading. the 160psi is within spec. The bently manual calls for only 7psi difference between cylinders. I would recommend the techs do a wet leakdown test, as this will show you where the leak is coming from. To do the wet test, you pour 1 tablespoon of oil into the cylinder and run the leakdown test just like a dry test. If the pressure goes up, then you have an issue with your piston/rings. If it stays the same then the leak is coming from the head gasket or valve seats. This is the easiest way to know without tearing the head off which I am betting needs to be done anyways. You pressure drop on one will cause these issues you are having....I know all to well and have done the tests and the subsequent teardowns.

Good LUCK!

 

How did this happen? Is the head stock, or has it been milled to yield a higher compression, and perhaps milled too much? What head gasket was used, stock, aftermarket (what's the thickness of it)?

Here's a copy and paste of a post I made not long ago, describing how to do a compression check...
http://www.aa1car.com/library/compression.htm
http://www.search-autoparts.com/sear...l.jsp?id=16170
Here's a video (kinda long) on how to do a compression check. If you look at the side of the screen there are alot of videos showing how to do a check and how to diagnose the cause of low compression. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9U8iNb21arw

 

Thanks Trickle X and K5! I will try doing the wet and dry leakdowns again to see what the results might yield. The head is stock and has been P&Ped and also milled down to raise compression. It was a stock head gasket that was used as well. From what i've read also, this issue doesn't seem to affect the drivebility of the car by that much. I just really hope that its the head gasket, that way at least he can fix the issue at no extra charge. Or at least I hope. Thanks all!

Any other ideas?!

 

K-Huevo sorry for the late thanks, it looks like the OEM headbolts and gaskets were used or at least from what I remember. It was the same cylinder that spit out the spark plug. What might that indicate? Maybe I can request a loosening of the headbolts and have them retorqued. Do you think the headbolts or gasket might be ruined by this point? I have a fear they might have been overtorqued. Like I said he went from the heaviest torque setting to each and every other setting to the lightest torque. According to the manual there should have just been the stage 1 torque then the stage 2 angle torque. So I'm going to bring that up. It just seems odd that the leakdown showed the 1st and 2nd cylinders having more leakage than the other two, especially since its seems to correlate with the compression test too. Thanks for the help!!!

As for the P0172 issue, does anyone know why that might have come up? I understand the Cylinder code but why the Too Rich code? Would a poorly sealed gasket cause the issue?

 

You need more information from the installer. Don't reuse stock head bolts (that includes re-torque), there is a risk of bolt stretch.

Spark plug is steel, head is softer aluminum, if threads were missing from the plug, the head's threads are damaged also. The spark plug bore could be a source for a leak. The threads from the spark plug had to go somewhere, could be wedged between the piston and bore scoring the cylinder walls unmercifully. Spitting the plug could be a head crack symptom; I've seen cracks around the spark plug hole in the combustion chamber before.

Find a shop with a borescope and have a look.

 

Running too rich is because one of your cylinders isn't firing. The o2 sensor reads the combination of all the cylinders air/fuel ration, so one cylinder not firing will cause the ratio to appear to be rich, because well it is on the average. Fix your issue and this will clear as well. Their is no easy way around it, the head needs pulled and examined where the failure is occurring. Also you really shouldnt re-use your head bolts as they are meant to stretch one time, but honestly this wouldnt show up as an issue to much later down the road.

 

EVERYONE! Get this: exactly the way it happened today, or yesterday whichever.

I get off work around 530pm and got to an autozone roughly 15 miles away to look for a chem tester; didn't have it. Went to Kragen; didn't have it, but a gentleman there did offer me a MAF sensor cleaner. Considering the mini has a MAP I didn't purchase it. So I go outside back to my car, pop my hood, and decided just to see how the actual MAP sensor looked like. After 5 mintues, I couldn't get the thing unplugged and just ended up pulling and pushing on the plug.

KEEP in mind, my check engine light has been off and stayed on for quite some time now, since Monday. I go to Pepboys to see if they had a chem tester, nope. They wanted to charge $35 for them to do it, since I was in a rush I didn't sign up to do so. Since Kragen its been about 15 or so minutes. I leave Pepboys and pop the hood again, tried to work my way to unplugging that MAP and still nothing. I drive to Home Depot, literally across the street from Pepboys, to look for something for my home. I leave Home Depot and head into my car.

THE CHECK ENGINE LIGHT WAS NOT ON WHEN I STARTED THE CAR........ I turned the car off and on several times, and the light was still off. Drove around for a bit and after about 2 hours later, the light comes back on. I tried to create that same action and could not get the light to turn back off.

So is it possible that the MAP sensor caused a P0301 AND P0172???


HELP!

 

if so, this sensor does a lot to run the engine. It measures both IATs and manfold pressure, and those are two key inputs into the ECU for setting mixture and timing. If there is something wrong there, then yes, it could cause all sorts of trouble. It is also a part that goes out on our cars pretty often (not all the time, but T-MAP sensor issues are common).

Matt

 

phungshum, I got the same symptoms than you when I installed my P&Ped Head and RMW Camshaft: got check engine light ON and stalled at stop/redlight. When I got a RMW tune (dynoed 193whp) with Jan, he found out I was running too rich at idle. Back to home, I went to the dealer to check up and they found out it was my air-pressure sensor was defect. Afther that fix, I never got the check engine light ON anymore and the car runs great.

Check it out.

 

Did you replace BOTH? IE the one on the front near the intercooler or the one that was near the valve cover end? Or both!!

Thanks so much!!

 

They replaced only one sensor.

On my bill, they stated they did the "short test", fault in DME:
- Fault 172 (Mixture Control)
- Fault 108 (Absolute Pressure in Intake Manifold)
Then they did the "Test plan", after the test they found out I had to replace the "intake air temperature / manifold sensor"

Here is the part number of the sensor they replaced: 12 14 0 872 679
Product name: Temperature Air sensor

Hope that could help you.

 

Thank you so much!!! I'm going to the dealer tomorrow to buy one!!!! Yea I ran my car today and I got the P0108 code too. Yea hopefully this completely resolves the issues


Thanks Heavy Metal!!

Anyone else have anymore possible ideas? I mean, I think this is pretty solid info, but more ideas will be loved! ThankS!

 

phungshum, also, before I left my car to BMW dealer to fix the Air Temperature sensor, I Seafoam-ed the engine. I got an oil leak, and after the Seafoam treatement, no more oil leak. I think, with all issues you got, Seafoam couldn't hurt.

 

Today when I was at autozone, I picked up an OBDII scanner and was going to actually pick up a can of Seafoam too. They guy told me he put some through the gas cap, engine oil cap and through his PCV intake thing too. He told me afterwards, his car has a laundry list of problems lol. I put the can down immediately.lol.

Can anyone else shed some feedback on Seafoam-ing your MINIs?!

Thanks HeavyMetal!!

 

For my Seafoam treatement, they (the garage who I went for my car maintain) put all throught the vaccum hose. After the treatment, they changed the oil (they told me, after the Seafoam, the oil got more dirty and it's better to change it than still using this oil). When I picked up my car, it ran better. I could fell a difference. The oil leak disappeared in the same time (the BMW mecanician told me, when they (an another "wannabe" mecanician BMW speedshop) put the camshaft, they put oil everywhere in the engine. So Seafoam fixed that I guess). Few days after, my car was in the dealer and I got my car fixed (air temperature sensor).

 

#1 advice... don't listen to the guy behind the auto parts counter. Most of them are not mechanically inclined. If you ask him or her a few basic questions, and they seem lost, walk away. Search here or talk to a real dealership or shop mechanic. If his car had a laundry list of problems afterward, it sounds like he did not follow directions, or the cleaning process showed what was actually wrong.

Seafoam can be used to clean your oil and your gas. For oil, add it toward the end of your oil change, like 200 miles or so. Run it, then change your oil. If you use it for engine treatment, connecting the can to the PCV hose is the best way to clean out the system. Search the forum for "seafoam"; you should find plenty of threads offering how-to-do and advice.

...

As for an OBDII scanner, make sure the one you buy is able to read the European code standard. Here's a link explaining MINI OBD II diagnostics: http://www.murmini.com/articles/2007...agnostics-pt-1. Here's the link to the OBDII interface tool I bought: http://tunertools.com/proddetail.asp?prod=ST%2D423000. I've only used it for datalogging for tuning purposes, but it's supposed to have a good diagnostic software tool included.

 

Your making it too complex Jumpingjack OBDII is OBDII its universal standards. Now CAN bus codes are on a manufacture basis which is where Bavarian Technics software is very invaluable.

2 options that work perfect.

Option A. Bentley or Haynes Service Manual and Scangauge2

Option B. Bentley or Haynes Service Manual, Bavarian Technics Diagnostics software, and Scangauge2

 

checkmate2006, the Scangauge II is a good recommendation. I forgot it can clear codes, too.