Ulf, I have never said anything bad about you personally in my posts.
I even thanked you several times for posting here.

Your continued references to my "Kindergarten conversations" when I ask
questions that everyone else can see are reasonable just diminishes
your reputation as a vendor. It makes it look like you can't answer them.

Keep it up and you will lose even more customers.

 

Trippy
The only way I know to end this and I know I will not gain any brownie points with you is to place a probe at the proper place on your body. Then apply 14 volts to a stock coil and see how long it takes you to say uncle. After that we will connect a PB to the stock coil and apply the same voltage again. If you say uncle at a later time then the system is less effective if not it's more effective.
Charles

Yes, you can delete this post if you want but I am tired of all the BS. (Barbara Streisand)

_________________
When a clock is hungry, does it go back four seconds?

 

^^^ ^^^

I was waiting for that!

 

CharlsWil, that's a good idea for a test of the PB.

And, since it involves no actual internal combustion
engine, or MINI ignition components other than the coil,
it matches Ulf's simulation quite well.

I'm tired of the B.S. also, and people can read Ulf's
responses,

- see where a 10 HP loss gets no explanation,
- see a quote on the I.S. site saying "Multiple sparks of opposite polarity"
--- then see a graph of secondary current that never goes negative, but
--- shows a large initial current,
- see where questions are refused an answer .

and judge for themselves.

_________________

 

Here's a good summary/intro to ignition timing

http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_1609/article.html

I'm trying to put what's here so far into greatbear's gunfighter and saloon doors analogy:

When the gunfighter gets to the doors with a stock ignition, they swing open immediately to say 60 degrees. They really only need to swing to say 20 degrees to let him pass (ignite the mixture), but they allow for manufacturing variations and for when he gets older and fatter (old plugs, bad mixture day.) then they swing back to closed with a very well damped motion.

With a pb, the doors don't swing open immediately (as evidenced by the delay in the secondary current that's on the graphs, perhaps the cause of the report about ulf being shown the door at GM with the comment "all you're doing is changing the timing," and perhaps the felt "smoothness&quot. Then, depending on whether trippy or ulf is correct, the doors swing open to either 50 degrees or to 90 degrees. Then they swing way back inside and out for some cycles in a very undamped motion.

All along I've been asking for the data that shows that extra door swinging does any good, regardless of whether it's from a pb or some other ignition system device.

 

Ulf:
What are your findings using an upgraded coil (such has Ignition Solution's own aftermarket coil) in cojunction with the PB? A graph would help.

 

Hey Ulf,

Appreciate your time and your PB sounds really good. I've been following these posts, but don't fully understand if the PB would or should be combined with other ignition options, as to whether the other ignition upgrades would provide any further improvement. So, could you please tell me if you would recommend any other ignition upgrades to complement the PB, such as upgraded spark plug wires, coils, etc. Thanks much. I would like to add the PB along with the other ignition upgrades if the other upgrades may provide some further benefit, because I just have the MC and need all the help I can get. You're awesome for coming on our site for us.

 

Ulf,

I forgot to add: higher performance spark plugs, i.e., would they be beneficial to add with the PB? Thanks.

 

We haven't heard from Ulf in over a week - hopefully, he returns to answer more of the questions we've posed.

 

How much does the Plasma Booster cost?

Forgetting all the technical stuff, it just seems likely to me that this device would do little or nothing to increase actual performance on a MINI or any other car. The only way to prove it works in my opinion is to install it in the desired auto, make several runs under the same weather conditions with the same driver and time each run accurately. Of course, more than one car and more than one driver should be used and they should have no connection to the vendor. If accelleration times are improved with the PB and drop back to baseline without the PB the thing works, if not it doesn't. I don't think it's possible to prove or disprove the only important aspect of this product with charts or technical jargon, even if attempting to do so is fun and allows the demonstation of ones technical knowledge.

There are MINI's and there are PB's. We need to get them together at the track for a definitive test that will render how it works a moot point and answer the question of does it work.


R.E.

 

I had one for a month, and if it made any difference, I couldn't tell.

I also keep exact records of my MPG, and it didn't make a
difference there either.

This does not mean that it makes NO difference, just that it
was too small for me to notice on my particular car.

 

resmini:
See my earlier post on improvements I saw in my 1/4 mile times. I can email pics of the actual time slips to PM'ed email addresses I recieve.

Trippy, out of curiosity, did you ever do a timed run? I'm not being smart, just I don't recall mention. (I'd search if I wasn't on dial-up at the moment ).

 

>>resmini:
>>See my earlier post on improvements I saw in my 1/4 mile times. I can email pics of the actual time slips to PM'ed email addresses I recieve.
>>
>>Trippy, out of curiosity, did you ever do a timed run? I'm not being smart, just I don't recall mention. (I'd search if I wasn't on dial-up at the moment ).


goin440,

I re-read your post with the timed runs. Sure looks like the PB helped the performance of your MINI. The gains weren't real big, which I would expect. If someone installed the PB and did not do timed runs I can see where they might believe it did nothing. Maybe some of the other folks can provide us with additional empirical data.

How much does it cost?

Thanks,

R.E.

 

>>Trippy, out of curiosity, did you ever do a timed run?

No I didn't. That's why I said I couldn't rule out an improvement
under those conditions.

It's just with things like this in their website:
I figured I would be able to tell the difference withour a stopwatch.

I was wrong.

The quotes are possibly even correct, since they make no claims that
these changes will make any difference in power, torque or fuel economy.

As they say in internet-land: YMMV.

 

Trippy,

Is the plasma booster still installed on your MINI? If yes, why? If no, are you returning it for your money back?

SMKKVK

 

Trippy,

Is the plasma booster still installed on your MINI? If yes, why? If no, are you returning it for your money back?

SMKKVK

 

>>Is the plasma booster still installed on your MINI?

Man, you've got to read more of the posts.

I had a loaner unit from Peter for a month of testing.

I was figuring on getting the change in fuel economy, looking
at timing changes etc, but I only had time to chart the fuel
economy before Peter asked for it back.

After I saw no performance change, I guess I lost "moto"vation,
and dropped the ball on the other charts.


_________________

 

First off, GREAT Thread.

I remember when my Pop put a plasma booster in his 5 series a few years ago, we all laughed at him, made star trek references and all. But weird thing was, it did seem to make a differance. I am by no means an engineer or a scientist, but it did what it said it would and Pop was happy.

Now I see there is one for the Mini and it's making me consider it.

This thread has further exlplained what I felt in my Pop's 5series.

Thanks EVERYONE!

-WCC

 

I installed the PB on my S yesterday, and the only difference I can detect (unscientifically) is that now I have a hesitation starting off in first (engine 'bogs') every so often. This is after 18k miles with no problem. I have a 15% reduction pulley, cold air box, QS exhaust, and Renntech ECU mod. Hmmm...

_________________
<img src=http://www.liquid2k.com/peace108/mini3.gif>

 

Looks like Ulf isn't coming back.

Thanks for answering some but not all of our questions.

 

>>CharlsWil, that's a good idea for a test of the PB.
>>
>>And, since it involves no actual internal combustion
>>engine, or MINI ignition components other than the coil,
>>it matches Ulf's simulation quite well.
>>
>>I'm tired of the B.S. also, and people can read Ulf's
>>responses,
>>
>>- see where a 10 HP loss gets no explanation,
>>- see a quote on the I.S. site saying "Multiple sparks of opposite polarity"
>>--- then see a graph of secondary current that never goes negative, but
>>--- shows a large initial current,
>>- see where questions are refused an answer .
>>
>>and judge for themselves.
Trippy,

I can certainly understand your opinion of the plasma booster. Many people do not notice anything at all for a gain, unless they are creating a demand for more spark by way of some type of forced induction.Some of my customers running plasma booster coils on supercharged cars that were originally normally aspirated have seen huge gains. Stock cars do see a gain, but hard to feel with just your "butt dyno". It would be very interesting to see dyno tests of the pb system on a mcs with lots of added boost. I have actually met Ulf in person, when he did a presentation of the plasma booster at my company. We had been selling them and really didn't know what they did either. Now we do. He tried to explain it to you, but you refused to believe him. Ulf's a nice guy who certainly has gone the extra mile here to explain his product in detail, just because you refuse to believe him doesn't mean he's a jerk or his product doesn't work.

 

just because you refuse to believe him doesn't mean he's a jerk or his product doesn't work.

Not to pick a nit but, I didn't see anyone call Ulf a jerk and as for the PB working who knows. I appreciate him taking the time to answer the questions he did and I too would have liked for him to stay longer. I still don't see the advantage in a multi-spark discharge but I can see the THEORETICAL benifit to a higher current spark. Ulf himself said the PB works better on some engines than on others, perhaps the mini or the mini S doesn't benefit appreciably. I STILL haven't seen a 3rd party evaluation of the PB that gives it good reviews on the mini. I don't fault Peter or Ulf, the technological THEORY seems sound, its just the practical application on our engines hasn't been satisfactorally proven.

_________________
Some people are like slinkies, not really good for anything but they're funny when they fall down the stairs.

 

How about this:

First: yes, It is nice for a nice big american V8.

Second: yes, the PB works, somehow, but it IS NOT A GOOD APPLICATION FOR THE MINI!!

Third: if you have done EVERYTHING, go ahead and get your 1-2 HP for $$$.

Fourth: IMHO, I would never ever ever EVER buy it.

FIfth: IT IS NOT A GOOD APPLICATION FOR THE MINI!!

and even if it is, for 1-2hp, who the ****** cares????
Like one astute member said, go on a f**king diet! and you will get just as much of a performance gain!

Please, let us end this right here and right now.

1-2hp is nothing. If you want "smoothness" go buy a V12! If you MUST have the 1-2 hp, go ahead and buy it! 'nuff said.

 

Wow that was harsh.

Dyno your own modded cars, I bet that a lot of you have lost Hp.

As Far as what I've read here. Some understand, own and believe.

A few non believers can't let go.

So What. The ones who have a hard time justifying it for their OWN applications, is no reason to run off at the mouth like a sick baby with soiled diapers.

Go pour some fuel additives in your gas tanks.

I have not seen the proof here that it does not work. Ulf has presented forms, graphs and charts in support of his product.

If you can provide the same proving there is no value to the product, please show me

As I said above, My pop has one in his 5. It seems to work. It made a differance. I felt it.

I would consider this myself.

Now you have your homework assignments.

and I would suggest to the guy who now has a "bog", contact whoever you bought it from or M7 themselves. It's better to bring that issue up with the manufacturer before you knock it publicly, especially if you find you installed it wrong, or it was caused by one of your other mods.



Best to wash your feet before you eat them.

-WCC

 

>>Dyno your own modded cars, I bet that a lot of you have lost Hp.

Qualify your statement pls.

>>As Far as what I've read here. Some understand, own and believe.
>>
>>A few non believers can't let go.
>>
>>So What. The ones who have a hard time justifying it for their OWN applications, is no reason to run off at the mouth like a sick baby with soiled diapers.

What I see is some are non-believers who do not see the value in purchasing a product that may or may not improve some aspect of the performance of their engine, maybe. Then there are a few who fully understand what Ulf was saying and choose to believe the theory presented as justification for spending $$$ on a mod that they think made a difference.

>>Go pour some fuel additives in your gas tanks.

Go pour some in yours.

>>I have not seen the proof here that it does not work. Ulf has presented forms, graphs and charts in support of his product.

I can make you a graph that will show undeniably that a stock cooper produces more hp/tq than a modded viper. It will of course be manipulated in the scale area of the graph, but if you overlay the two the cooper will have higher lines.

>>If you can provide the same proving there is no value to the product, please show me

I for one could care less if you buy a PB or not. Its your money spend it or waste it as you wish.

>>As I said above, My pop has one in his 5. It seems to work. It made a differance. I felt it.
>>
>>I would consider this myself.

Your comparing apples to oranges. Ulf said a PB on a Ford V-8 produced 10hp gains, if I remember correctly. So that means it should do the same on a mini, right?

>>Now you have your homework assignments.

What is my assignment? Producing evidence to you that the PB doesn't work? Keep it steady there WCC.

>>and I would suggest to the guy who now has a "bog", contact whoever you bought it from or M7 themselves. It's better to bring that issue up with the manufacturer before you knock it publicly, especially if you find you installed it wrong, or it was caused by one of your other mods.

He simply posted the result of the PB on his car. From what I have read the PB is easy to install, just tap the wires. I would be interested to hear what Peter says when "this guy" does contact him with a "bog" issue.

>>
>>
>>Best to wash your feet before you eat them.

I prefer mine with mustard.

>>-WCC

_________________
Some people are like slinkies, not really good for anything but they're funny when they fall down the stairs.