just installd helix 19% pulley and i have mini mania shark ecu upgrade any body tryd this configuration just scared rhe motor will run too lean need some input please mario

 

why not just talk to eric at Helix?

 

Should be fine. Shark runs RICHER than even stock (there are a number of threads on NAM explaining this). So I'm sure you won't have a problem! Enjoy!

 

Just wondering why you would install the pulley first....and then ask questions???
As greatgro said, the shark seems to run rich. There is a tremendously lengthy thread on that somewhere on this site.
Keep us posted on how she works out. I'm kind of interested in the 19% myself.

 

Eric @ helix has done a lot of ECU work recently in combination with GIAC for their own ECU and I'm sure he will be more than happy to answer your questions.

 

You're in good hands. From all accounts, the shark runs rich (whether it makes power is another issue), so rock and roll--and let us know how the car feels.

 

eric doesn t know who it would run,can t try the car because of huge snow in nyc

 

If you are really worried take it back to Eric and do a few dyno runs with his wide band O2 sensor logging the mixture during the run.

Then you can relax.

 

No, Dont do it. You will blow your motor....this is not backed up by ANY claims :smile:

 

>>No, Dont do it. You will blow your motor....this is not backed up by ANY claims :smile:

Can you share with us the evidence that he will risk blowing his motor?
Thanks.

 

why would the engine blow if the shark runs richer than the stock ecu map mario :???:

 

>>>>No, Dont do it. You will blow your motor....this is not backed up by ANY claims :smile:
>>
>>Can you share with us the evidence that he will risk blowing his motor?
>>Thanks.

When Randy drove out to our pulley party in AZ, he put in a 19% pulley and three hours outside of Denver the supercharger "seized" rendering his car useless (until fixed of course).....not sure which pulley he had, but it made a for some good discussion while getting our pulleys swapped out.

haf :smile:

 

Sounds awfully suspicious...

 

that is interesting to be sure.

I know of three other cars with the 19%, all driven very hard, who have had no problems. Sounds like we need to compare setups: altitude, (Denver richens it, right?) ecu mods? throttle bodies? pulley construction, belt slipping? debris in the blower has to be ruled out, for example. I'm sure Randy will sort it out.

 

What happened with Randy's supercharger is the rubber seal between the pulley and the bearing failed and allowed the oil to leak out. This is most likely due not to the 19% pulley ring but the installation of the interference-style pulley hub.

 

Yes Ryephile. The way Randy explained it was that when the interferance fit pulley is installed, it is heated to red hot then slid on the shaft. Apparently, the rubber seal doesn't like all that heat snuggled up to it. On a loooong 2% incline, the seal failed, letting the oil out, which led to the SC seizing. He didn't think it was due to the 19% pulley he had on at the time, but could make no guarantees.

 

>>Yes Ryephile. The way Randy explained it was that when the interferance fit pulley is installed, it is heated to red hot then slid on the shaft. Apparently, the rubber seal doesn't like all that heat snuggled up to it. <<

You do not have to get it red hot before installing it, but I found you do have to get it hot. That's why you you are ready with compressed air and/or a spray bottle to get rid of the heat as quickly as possible. I would think that the shaft gets pretty hot under normal circumstances and that the bearing seal is designed to take a lot of heat and abuse. But red hot with no cooling is pushing your luck. I am positive that Randy knows this.

 

I would deffintley be interented in the 19% reduction pulley, the only thing holding me back is waiting to see what problems will occur. I will wait a little longer, plus I in no hurry because I already have the 15% reduction, and I love it.

 

>>No, Dont do it. You will blow your motor....this is not backed up by ANY claims :smile:
>>

Huh? Not true.

 

This discussion about heating reminds me of installing slip-yoke eliminator kits on Jeeps... where you took a cutoff wheel, circular saw, or the like and cut the output shaft coming out of the transfer case off by about 1.25". Then, you had to drill and tap the end of the shaft... and yeah, those output shafts are hardened steel. In some cases, the shaft would get so hot that it would cause unseen damage to the rear t-case seal... which would then fail... leaving a pool of t-case fluid sitting somewhere on the trail (or road).

 

Except that hundreds of pulleys were installed by Helix this way. And now we have the option of switching to 17% and 19% pulleys. If the person who is installing it is good and experienced like the guys at Helix, there's no worries. Now if someone tries to do it themselves with the heat version, well, lots of luck to ya!

 

Thanks Agro for the clarification! :smile: Glad to know there was more to it than really the pulley.

Sorry to cause any worries to others.

 

fyi from Randy's forum:

So there I was...

Some background:

As my car was one of the first in the country to do a pulley, I used the first generation reduction pulley with the interference fit. This is the pulley that requires the hub to be heated significantly with an acetylene torch, then slid onto the supercharger shaft. This hub does allow different pullies to be fitted though - perfect for testing different set ups.

I had several different sizes on the car doing different tests from time to time, and for the last six months, had the 15% pulley on it, as the research showed that was the best option (something that had been discussed at length here and other places). Then, some folks came out with the 19% for mass consumption, and I knew that I needed the hard data to back up the earlier tests we had done. So, I slapped on a pulley made by a local machine shop with the intent of doing testing as soon as time allowed.

That's the set up my car had.

So I'm driving down to do the Phoenix pulley party on the Friday before the event. I am about an hour south of Pueblo, which is pretty much in the middle of nowhere, and I think I hear a different noise. I continue driving, and think - it is probably like one of those sounds you here while flying over water in a single engine airplane - amazing what tricks the mind can play. But then - screeeeech - snap - all lights come on and I go into limp mode. So I think, now that didn't sound right at all. The lights indicated a thrown belt, but the screeching noise was something new - I have thrown the aftermarket smaller belts in the past. It is now 10:30 in the morning, and I am three or so hours away from Denver, and ten or so from Phoenix. Mind you, I have cars lined up to do the installs the next day at 8:00am.

I hop out of the car, which has all of the tools and jacks required to do a pulley, and think - this may be a tough spot to fix the car. I am on the side of I-25 in a 75 MPH zone with a shoulder just big enough for the MINI. Luckily, the pulley and belt are on the passenger side. Well, the water-air intercooler lines are in the way for me to see the pulley, so I work on getting those out of the way, and sure enough, no belt. I find the belt and pull it out, and instead of looking shredded like a "normal" chincy belt failure would, it is snapped clean. Again, I think to myself, that's not right. Now, the idea of what has happened is formulating in my mind - something has seized that snapped the belt. Not good. I then can see, since the water lines are out of the way, that the supercharger is leaking its self contained oil supply through the front, between the pulley and the supercharger itself. Now I just about know what will be next, so I reach down to turn the supercharger pulley by hand (something normally very easy to do) and it is locked solid. That explains a lot.

Why did this happen? Well, I think a couple of main causes and a couple of contributing factors. First, the original style hub that requires heating definitely compromises the seal at the end of the supercharger shaft - something I've pointed out to folks at all of the installs. Once that seal starts leaking, the oil supply is limited and will eventually run out. The other issues are all contributory: the 19% pulley did increase the heat generated, as did the 2% grade up to Raton pass from Pueblo which kept the supercharger under constant load. When you combine the higher heat with no oil, you get - you guessed it - supercharger seizure. After removing the toasted supercharger and checking the oil level, my suspicions were confirmed. There was very little oil left.

So back to the story of what was done in the midst of a time crunch on the side of the road in the middle of nowhere. Normally, I would have just gotten a ride back to Denver from my wife, then gotten the race trailer, drove back down, picked up the car, trailered it back and fixed it. This would have taken about 9 hours due to the proximity to Denver I was currently in, and, considering I needed to be in Phoenix by 8:00 am the next morning, not an unavailable option.

So I called MINI Roadside Assistance. I was figuring it would still take about two hours to get a tow truck from civilization, but at least I could get the car to Pueblo, transfer the tools to a rental car, and be on the way while my poor Mule was back to Denver. SO MINI says the tow truck will be there in about 30 minutes - and so help me, I don't know if they helicoptered one in and dropped it, there was the tow truck! The tow truck driver ended up being into rock crawlers and had aspirations of designing and building his own - so we discussed building jigs for tube frames/cages. A very nice guy! He ended up taking me to the rental car place in Pueblo and even helped move all of the tools from one car to the other.

I made it down to Phoenix at about 1:00am if I remember right, and was at the shop by 7:45 to do the pulley party. The Mule is back on the road - with a new Alta 15% non heat-the-hub pulley (I had a few superchargers here) - and all is well.

Moral of the story - I am happy with the taper bore style pullies. I use the Alta because of the fit and finish - it is capped and is stainless steel - but the Mania and newer Madness pullies are also taper bore pieces.

This was the only problem I have ever had with a pulley, and I am happy to share my experiences to keep other folks from having the same issues (it's why we do the testing!).

Hope that clears things up

Randy

 

Hmm seems like one of the thousands of aftermarket pullies Failed. I say that those odds are pretty good.

I am sorry to hear his car broke down on the side of the road.

I woudl also like to know how you checked your supercharger oil with out removing the charger. From what I have been told and seen it can't be done while the unit is in the car. Am I wrong?

 

>> I woudl also like to know how you checked your supercharger oil with out removing the charger.

You might have missed this...