While I agree they aren't necessary I find it funny that it looks like you have them in the pic.

 

I was waiting to install the NM Engineering brace to take off the strut defenders from the M7 brace. If I did not have a strut tower brace, I would definitely NOT spend the money to purchase them.

 

At speed your front scoop does not get any airflow. period. Lower speed yes but so does the OEM air intake behind the right side grill. If you want to use your hood scoop fabricate something like one of the 70's muscle cars with a scoop about 18-24 inches from the hood. That would be functional, serious

I was 2in from putting on the DDM and was told I could use the strut brace. Friend thankfully slapped me upside the head and suggested I look a the DoS. So I can't say for sure.

I've also heard the strut brace is not really that effective

 

I am not sure you can claim this. Assuming the scoop is open (MY 2008 onwards), a scoop open to the front will get air. The amount of air should increase with speed, not go to zero as you claim at regular car speeds. What you claim may happen just near the speed of sound (approx 768 mph) which is quite a bit faster than the typical Mini is capable of at this time.

I am not pushing scoops or CAIs, DOS or otherwise here. Just talking a little physics and air flow.

 

Check this out--

The DoS CAI works on ram air principles derived back in the 60's. A great
forum that has looked into this in depth can be found here:

http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/bolt-...am-air-si.html

Here's the basics of how the intake works:

The DoS CAI has 2 inlet ducts -- 1 at the front of the car and one at the
base of the windshield. Both ducts allow for plenty of nice cold air
during low-to-mid speeds. At high speed, a high pressure zone is
established when the air flows up to the hood and hits the windshield
before flowing over the top and sides of the car. This high pressure zone
actually rams air into the large intake inlet far more effectively than a
front mounted scoop.

The main reason that I have issues with hood scoop-mounted inlets on the
R56 is that the front duct/vent should be used to allow the turbo to vent
heat at low speeds and aid in cooling it at high speeds/high RPM. Putting
a duct over the top of the turbo is not necessarily a great thing.

 

Like I said in my previous post, I am not debating the benefits of the different CAIs. Just wanted to point out that I think your statement about no air going thru the front scoop at speeds does not seem to be consistent with physics. You have to be going really fast (near the speed of sound of approx 768 mph) to create that vacuum in front of the scoop.

As for more air coming from the windshield area, I think before you really can make such a big claim, you would need to provide real air flow data, such as wind tunnel results from good sources. Testimonials are OK but it is easy to find contrarian views. Same for vendor info. Also, the front intakes started way earlier than the 60s and they continue to be the way manufacturers get their intake air. Maybe they are wrong all these years.

For a cowl based CAI, when you have air flowing at speeds in one direction, you will need some force to move it backwards. When you have flow going one way, if you open a hole to let it continue to flow the same way, it makes it more difficult to make the air flow backward (Original air intake).

I have no idea what works or what does not work, only the basic air flow physics is just not adding up (without consideration for the engine). All I can say is that the turbo engines does suck air for combustion and in turbos, it does like lots of air. So opening up air from more sources may be beneficial.

 

I don't have a vested interest in proving this to you. I provided the info that made sense to me

I have the DoS installed and it works. As always you have a choice of what you do or don't install based on your beliefs of what can or can't assist

Best of luck

 

No problem. Good luck to you.

Just don't continue to make those unsubstantiated claims that a front scoop will get no air at speeds.

 

FYI, DoS just just finished the baffle design today. It's tamed the noise divide while still keeping the advantages of the R56 CAI system.

https://www.northamericanmotoring.com/forums/drivetrain-cooper-s/176820-defenders-of-speed-vs-ddmworks-3.html#post2934543

As for the controversy I've seen brewing over forward facing inlet (ram) ducts vs. cowl induction, both can work and have their own inherent advantages and disadvantages. Ram or Cowl Induction based HP gains are nearly impossible to dyno test unless you're using HUGE fans (we're talking room sized wind tunnel fans) and testing with the hood closed. However, those gains can be logged with a mid-range accelerometer based datalogger like units from G-Tech.

The key to success for either method of induction involves a duct/inlet area with correct shape and placement and considerations toward the overall needs of the engine, and engine bay limitations. I can recommend some books to folks who want to look into induction theories further. However, as a vendor I can't get in the middle of this or offer my two cents. So, be your own judge and get whatever system makes sense to you based on whatever criteria steers your existence.

-Clint

 

I have tried my very best to not bring in brands and which one is best, only to ask some questions and discuss some contradictions logically. The only main point I have tried to consistently clarify is one that I think is not correct which is no air comes through the front scoop at speeds.

No matter how many times I have said this, it seems so natural to get stuck on the CAI that was purchased. I have no vested interest or purchase choice to protect here. I am not in the market for a CAI.

If you have before/after independent data logs, please post them. If you have some independent before/after 0-60 mph tests, please post them as well. I think it would be great to get some real data.

 

Stating that no air feeds into an opened front scoop at speed is untrue. No one with DoS's development team has ever made the claim. (I just noticed that this was stated by someone earlier in the thread.) So, yes, air goes into the scoop at speed. However, I prefer leaving the scoop open to allow additional air to flow into the engine bay and better venting for the turbo when in traffic & lower speed twisties.

"Independent" Testing:
Basically, whatever I post is deemed by some as a vested interest because I sell stuff. I am proud of the tedious R&D that's gone into those efforts and the happy customers that like the resulting products. (Some have dyno'ed personal gains themselves, but even that data is skewed.) In a nutshell, most of the vendors on NAM don't possess resources that allow them to have a truly independent entity run their testing.

All that being said, this thread is a tad hijacked and morphing into something else other than how folks are "spending their modding money". I can post data showing 'gains over stock' per my vendor agreement. I'll be happy to create another thread to post DoS's CAI dyno data and will put a link to it on this thread. It's been on my 'to do' list for some time now. Guess I've got some new motivation.

Apologies to all for the novel. OK, going to go outside now.

 

Thanks for the clarification concerning front air intake getting air at speeds. DOS is NOT the source of that inaccurate info.

Funny how the thread has been turned into a DOS advertising thread. I have no issues with your product(s) and always welcome innovation in the Mini world. Good luck to you.