I don't see anywhere where I said it wasn't tuned for meth

What I said and I stressed.........the differences will be greater on a poorly tuned car or a car with no tune

the cars that were pre-meth were highly tuned for hrs on the dyno so the gains will be smaller. The gains are noteworthy as they are repeatable all day long. It's not about just making power for 1 run, its about making power to finish out the track day:wink:

So 12 hp with a specific meth tune is the answer D-Man, on that Dynapac in Florida.

So was it only making 240 because of the ambient temps?

So

RMW tuned car + RMW meth kit + No specific meth tune = minimal/no gains

RMW tuned car + RMW meth kit + Specific meth tune = 12hp gain

since when did Church move his dynapack to Florida?:roll:



you don't follow along well do you?:sly:

I am trying to figure out what sort of gains you have seen on cars that

1. Have a decent tune ie RMW or other and run this system without a specific meth tune

and

2.Have a specific RMW meth tune and run this sytem

I would have thought that these are the two most important questions to prospective buyers of your kit....

I think jan's whole aim of the game here is to keep the IAT's down as much as possible. Each car is going to react differently to it. 1 car might see 30-40 hp that has no tune on it but another car that has a tune would maybe only see 5-10 hp gain. But the thing that stands out the most is consistancy. You will always have the same temp for as many runs as you want.

you mean a dyno sheet doesn't explain the gains?

You have no idea how or why we tune the car the way we do.......

there is a reason behind it.... the thing is:::: You buy your own kit you have to figure it out yourself

D-Man

The 12hp gain is on a highly tuned RMW car before meth, it is the additional hp after Meth and Re-tune

There has not been any that went from no tune to meth without tune, nor no tune to meth with tune. But the idea is, if you can get 12hp on a highly tuned car, you can get even more on what that isn't. Make sense this time?

The only dyno sheet you posted shows a 12hp gain on a car that has been TUNED for methanol.

All I wanted to know is what gains you can expect from the system and NO METH TUNE.

I already have :thumbsup:

What I was trying to figure out was if there are substantial gains to be seen with an Aquamist kit over the other kits.
If the gains were more than what I am seeing with my tuned kit I would be more than happy to convert to an Aquamist kit

Don't worry Jan I won't ask anymore questions....
It does seem that you are the first to scrutinise other vendors products and when someone asks valid questions of your products you reply with question of your own...

Good luck with your kit :nod:

Thanks :thumbsup:

You will always make more power from meth with a tune.

If you already have a car that is optimally tuned and you add meth without a tune - I doubt you would see any substantial gains (but I could be wrong)

Where you will see gains from meth without a specific meth tune is when your car is not properly tuned in the first place ie no custom tune and heaps of mods....

Jan doesn't just throw a product out there to make money like most of the other vendors do. He does alot of testing on the products that he develops for these cars. I don't know of any other vendor that goes to the extent that jan does for his products. But I can tell you one thing they are worth the wait. Jan has enough data to prove why his items are better than other vendors, but like anyone in the game you aren't going to give out all of your secrets for someone to copy off. I for one thank jan for all the time he takes to test these products, and from what I can see it sometimes takes up to a year, as it is costly but at the end of it if it works he sells it if it doesn't he won't. This is why he can be critical of other vendors :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Why did I think there was a RMW car in Florida with a meth kit on it? memory is obviously going.........

So I now get it, both these dynos graphs are Jeff aka Big Howe's then

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...-meth-meth.jpg

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...wertondyno.jpg

asking questions and not being able to follow the thread is a whole different story :nod:

For most kits sold thus far, all of the cars have been 240whp+ cars. These owners obviously did not install this kit to just leave it, we installed it and immediately re-tuned the cars. Each owner is consulted about their wants, along with the cars mods, and are weighed before the kit is setup and it is re-tuned.
As for the dyno graph in question at the beginning of this thread, and its tune, the mid-range was modified but the top end left basically untouched. The way we tune, and what we are trying to represent to our customers, is the realistic and safe gains available for their cars. We are are not trying to tune for a "glory" number to post on the forum.

Here is the one in Florida:thumbsup:
Full RMW Car with Methanol on a dynojet which the same Mini with full stage 4 kit of another vendor which was advertised at 265hp only made 213whp/153tq and that was with a tune from them. There was close to 50 runs and that was the best they ever got on that dyno. There was another file of a Mini on the dyno that showed 130 something ft lbs of torque. The dyno is notorious for reading lower.........HOW MANY M45 Supercharged MINI's HAVE YOU SEEN BREAK 200ft lbs of torque @ the wheels on a DYNOJET WITHOUT NITROUS and twincharging?

Dyno was done in 80deg Florida weather:thumbsup:
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...1&d=1232292193


For comparison sake, here is a the dyno you hold in high esteem. Considering the baseline of the stock car was at 169.47WHP for a BONE STOCK CAR............ I think you can appreciate what has been accomplished:wink:

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...1&d=1232292584

Here is another dyno of a meth kit done on another highly tuned carhttps://www.northamericanmotoring.co...1&d=1232293176

Again - as has been said one way or another but perhaps bears repeating - *most* of the point of this mod is to enable sustained and repeatable high performance - which might be evident over many back to back dyno runs, but more likely over a day of track sessions or hard driving in the twisties - but wouldn't necessarily be reflected in a big boost of the dyno numbers.... In other words, wouldn't it be great if your car *always* ran like it did during that 10 seconds when you got your best dyno sheet with a relatively cool engine with people spraying water on your IC and the bonnet open and big fans blowing on it and 15 minutes of cool down time since the last run?

While some gains will *just happen* on the dyno as a result of the ECU adapting to the cooler air (especially on stock ECU maps), and while a car can certainly be tuned to take advantage of both cooler air and a bit higher octane if you want to assume that you'll always have meth available, the best measurement would probably be lap times in the afternoon on a 90degF+ day, compared to how the car ran in your first session when it was cool... on a track you've already mastered...

Am I learning? Or am I missing it again?

sounds to me someone "gets it" :wink:

this is why it is even MORE important to get a kit that sprays properly through all engine loads instead of a wide open kit..............

here is a picture that might explain to some what I am getting at.
this was taken from another website showing the coolingmist system

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...1&d=1232294695

So Jeff aka big howe car has always made high 230s low 240s without the meth and 253 to 259 with the meth on.

Have you got a non meth plot for the one in Florida?

no......it's a race car

Here is a noob question, not even sure if it can be answered. How long, lets say 2 gallons of mix, would last typically, on a street driven, tooling around town, driven mildly hard at 95 degrees? Is there anyway to know this?

Paul, I am continually using my car to test different things. Jan sometimes has no idea I am doing or testing these things. Each time it has been in for dyno sessions, 4 or 5 times in the last year, the basic configuration has been the same, but numerous other items have been changed(why would I go so often)? Sometimes they are for power, sometimes for drivability(sometimes sapping power).
All of the dynos come from Churches, but all you can really compare is dyno runs from the same day. At times, my car has been stronger than what I have ever posted on the forum. So interpret it any way you want, there's much more to the story than comparing various dyno graphs indiscriminately.

The bottom line is the dyno plot in this thread is deltas from the same day, but an overall different setup from previous sessions.

P.S. Being a vendor/competitor to RMW I wouldn't think Jan is eager to answer your questions and post information for your use.

Jim
There are many variables like jet size, duty cycle settings and how much it's on

Should last 1-2 tanks of gas on normal settings

Yea I knew it was an open ended question :nod: But thanks for the answer :nod: One more noob question though :lol:, how much does a 50-50 mix cost, say down in So Cal? Per gallon?

I plan on buying a 55gal drum and mixing it 50/50 for sale. I'll post something up probably next week:thumbsup:

I'm pretty clear on the basics of meth injection, but tuning the car for meth is a whole 'nother ball game...

...one point i'm not entirely clear on and forgive me if I missed it in this thread...
if the car is "tuned" for meth...
1) How does it run when not using the meth?
2) Are the A/F ratios where they should be?
3) What if you're on the track(or dyno) and you run out in the middle of the run?

I can see if the car is tuned for the hard parts as they are not going anywhere, but actually tuning the car for something that you're not using 100% of the time makes me wonder how that will work.

BTW, sometimes I miss the obvious...so be nice.:grin: