RMW Water/Meth kit
 

Here is a video of a person on the Evo forum who tested the Aquamist pump against the pumps that ramp up the speed. This is exactly why it's so hard to tune these. It's incapable of accurately spraying the methanol.
Notice the dribbling after it shuts down and how long it runs after the Aquamist stops. Notice the difference in spray patterns.


http://s240.photobucket.com/albums/f...&current=A.flv

Jan have you ever used a water/meth system on the mini?

Yes, I have been testing them for over a year:thumbsup:

We finally have something that works like it should for the supercharged cars. Much easier to tune also. As you can see from the video they sure aren't made equal. The kit is ready to go. We even have an installation manual and all types of tank systems.

oooooh:)

Will this pump be OK if it was to be put into the boot? Do you need a solenoid in the engine bay?

you can put the pump anywhere you like:thumbsup:

the one we are using is the PWM type valve in the engine bay

PWM= Pulse width modulation

So from what I saw on the video, the 2 pumps look identical in size, would I be correct in saying that?

In that video, from what I know, the pumps are essentially the same size(both Shurflo based units). One is a bypass design, on the left, and the other, on the right, is an on-demand style with a pressure switch cutoff, hence the pulsing spray.

You are seeing two things here. The unit on the left has a nice even spray due to the bypass valve design pump, and a clean off/on from a solenoid.
The unit on the right has a checkvalve installed which continues to dribble after the injection event stops, and pulses badly when running up against the pressure switch. Unfortunately most of the less expensive systems out there use the pump speed based system with an on-demand/pressure switch which will give you this pulsing effect.
Near the end of the video the tester pulses the systems, and the one on the left has clean on/off events, the unit on the right continues to spray right through the off period.:no:

Yes, you can definitely see that :thumbsup: Thanks for that, I am just trying to see if I can just remove the one I have and replace it with the new one in the same place. If it is physically the same size, I have no problems!!

Secondly, where is the best place to put the sprayer? The one I have now is in the IC Outlet horn leading to the intake manifold, is this going to be ok?

As for pumps, Shurflo makes 3 motor lengths, so you need to see what you have and what will fit where you have it. The nozzle location should probably be fine. Below is a arrangement drawing of the 3 Shurflo pump sizes.

That last attachment was a little fuzzy, here's a better one.

Jan,
what are the pro's/ con's of having a meth system?
are there any hp/tq gains? and how much

Cons:
1. have to fill the tank
2. costs $5-8 per gallon of pure methanol
3. flammable if run higher than 50/50 mix
4. tank could take up space (depending on where you put it)
5. possibly finding a methanol dealer close to you (you can order the 50/50 mix easily through the internet

Pros
1. Lower inlet temps which are better for your engine (no intercooler system will get lower inlet temps)
2. knock suppression
3. octane boost
4. more power due to lower temps/timing pull (this system will give back to back consistency in power which you cannot get in other systems) It makes hot days seem like cool days. Remember how fast your MINI feels on a cold day?:wink:
5. Like having race gas but on a budget
6. Will be able to tune for it for more power
7. Will be offering a flash loader that will have multiple maps on it:thumbsup:

Here is a dyno done on 90degree F day
You can see how much timing was pulled without the Methanol
Methanol run vs no Methanol
this was already on a highly tuned car otherwise the numbers would be even higher
If you heat soak the car first the numbers would be even more drastic
we did run the NON-meth pull with ambient start temps

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...-meth-meth.jpg

Awesome Jan, good stuff. What kind of inlet temp changes did you measure? Where to put the tank, that's the thing? That could be an issue for some of us that don't really want it in the boot. Hmmm....where can it go?

we saw inlet temps as low as 60deg F on a 90degree day
I try to get some logs up later today

Did you make shure not to fool the temp sensor by spraying meth on it?
By spraying app. plus 20% water/meth to gas it is physically almost impossible to drop the temps below ambient.

I tried differend nozzle positions and nozzle sizes and saw an additional temp drop of 20°C (34°f).
You already know, to lower the temp behind the eaton did not increase the airmass. To increase the airmass, the temps before the eaton has to be cooled:cool:

Can be the Water/Meth kit installed without a tune?

A good portion of the testing was done on my car, both on the dyno and on the street. The TMAP is sensor is notoriously all over the place and inaccurate. I have thermocouples drilled in at various places in the inlet tract. On 100F days last summer, the temps before the stock IC would reach 350F+, after the IC would be around 220F(near redline). With the water/alcohol system on, the air temps in the intake manifold dropped to well below ambient in the midrange and crept up near 100F at redline. This trend was consistent with both dyno and street driving of the car. Drastically reduced EGT's were seen as well.

You are correct about airmass, the question is what is the most effective way to achieve this.

There are many, many variables at play, including injection type, nozzle(s) types and location, and fluid mixture from 0-100%. There are definitely sweet spots for some of these variables to mix correctly.

sure

to get maximum benefits our remote tune will be the answer:thumbsup:

Jan


How long does it take for a DIY install? What £££ does the whole kit cost?

Is the remote tune ready?

Interesting vid :thumbsup:

Question: Does either setup in the video have a solenoid or checkvalve between the pump and nozzle?

The left one is the bypass pump(smooth spray) with a solenoid installed. The right pump is the demand/pressure switch arrangement(pulsing) with a checkvalve. The checkvalve just limits the dynamic range and causes dribble at shutoff. If at all possible, try to run a solenoid near the nozzle.

You can also see in the end of the video when the tester pulses the systems, the unit on the right keeps spraying right through the "OFF" period while the pump spins down and checkvalve dribbles. Meanwhile, the left has a clean cutoff.

What kind of checkvalve is used in the vid on the pumpspeed rig? Seem to be some differences in the available checkvalves regarding cracking pressures, etc. which might impact both dynamic range and dribble to some degree... though I understand and agree that the on/off nature of the solenoid would probably be more optimal.

I definitely see the differences in flow control between the two rigs, especially during the "pulse" test - just trying to understand what type of orange you're comparing to the apple. :)

I'm not sure of the cracking pressure in the video(probably 20 or 30psi), but to some degree, a checkvalve is a checkvalve. If you get a low cracking pressure, it won't affect the dynamic range as much, but will dribble more. Conversely, the high cracking pressure really hampers the range, but controls more dribble. Pick your poison. I can't see a "different" type of checkvalve performing some other way. It generates back-pressure and doesn't provide a clean cutoff. It does keep you from having to run wires to the engine compartment and is cheap.
As far as equipment, it sort of is oranges to apples between the two systems in the video. Consistency and safety are probably the two major issues.

EDIT: I can't find any info on what kind of checkvalve may be installed, and one of the vendors even argues in the forum where this test was originally posted whether one was even there. To be completely honest, I can't say one way or the other. If there were no checkvalve there, and one was to be installed, I would assume the the dribble would be much less.
On the other hand, having a checkvalve or even solenoid in the trunk and running a long line to the front of the car is really akin to the system on the right except that you couldn't siphon through the pump emptying the tank. I apologize if my statements were misleading with the info I had.

What aquamist kit is the RMW kit based on?
The 2c, 2d or 2s
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/cp/cp.html

Couldn't you (big howe) and Jan do a similar video showing a similar test showing how much more control you have etc etc?

I must admit I thought by the title that this was all about the RMW system videos price etc etc

The pump on the left is the Aquamist pump and a solenoid, basically a single stage system.
I guess Jan could just turn this into an infomercial pushing sales of his product, but I think the intent is to educate people on the basics and differences in the systems as a whole. I can probably perform most applicable tests and make videos, but frankly this has been hashed out and beaten to death on other forums for years now. The MINI community is at the beginning of the educational/experimentation process so it may be best to lay everything out for folks to formulate their own decisions.
I'm sure Jan will have something to add.

None of those:thumbsup:

Well, that's SOMETHING. :lol:

it's pretty definitive isn't it?:lol:

Might be from Jeff Howerton. Maybe the HFS1 or 5.

http://members.tripod.com/rcsail/HFS-5.jpeg

Nice Job Jan! This looks much better than some of the others:thumbsup:

I picture an RMW factory being an all white sterile underground lab with a team of engineers walking around with white lab coats, glasses, beakers, micrometers and a wall of computers with blinking lights, testing top secret technology.

ERL AQUAMIST WATER INJECTION SYSTEM HFS-5 BLUE LED
:wink: :cool:

Sorry I'm having a senior moment here, but I thought the title of this thread was RMW Water/Meth Kit ?

Thus I presumed that we were going to see pics of the RMW Water / Meth Kit, pricing, data logs of IAT, dyno results, 30-70 30-90 in 3rd etc etc, pdf of the manual etc etc.

I thought there was already a water/meth discussion going on here;

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...on-system.html

Yeah I thought the thread was regarding the debut of a RMW water/meth kit too. Oh well it's still only January and cooooool! :) With that RMW has a few months to prepare and release its MINI water/meth kit!

Jeremy

the manual is for paying customers:thumbsup:

I'm sure if you ask Big Howe I guess he'll be a "manual downloader" and proberly uses this for reserching potential products to buy and also gives him confidience off the product taht its the best one on the market for the price.

Here is a picture one of the upgraded tanks that are already in cars
and a log of a run so you can get an idea of how it cools:thumbsup:

Base pricing $900, yes it is the HFS-5 system, with the HFS-1 available as well. Tanks and custom setups are extra.


We have tested numerous manufacturers kits and none of them had the quality we were looking for or the effectiveness on the MINI. We have also commissioned them to machine special AN fitting for the entire system as well as offer compression fittings, a nice upgrade over standard items from other manufacturers. Aquamist is also working closely with us to construct some tank/pump mounting systems specifically for the MINI, these should be ready shortly. All of these items, in conjunction with the testing we have done on the system to get it working quickly right out of the box, and our ability to provide the best tuning solution makes it the best choice on the market.



https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...hanol-tank.jpg