i have the following question

since i want to increase my rev meter to 7500 i visited my custom tuner
he proposed not doing that because the car was running lean after 7000. he tried to feed the car with more fuel but the ecu did not respond.

the reason is that i am running on almost 1.3 bar boost and at this boost level the injectors can not spray more fuel than they do now.(i run jcw injectors).

i was thinking to apply a fuel regulator but then i realised that this would not help as i am already in the limits...

then i thought on running a fuel regulator + larger capacity injectors but this is an expensive solution...and probably not a very good one...

i could also remove one of my pulleys (the crank one) thus lowering the boost level...not the wanted solution

then i thought (after discussing with some guys) that we could just clamp the MAP sensor and thus fake it...and so the map sensor would allow the tuner to spray more fuel...

has anybody done that?
all of you that run your car above 7200 rpm being safe how did you manage?

any help appreciated...

 

Call Jan @ RMW (vendor here on NAM)
949-456-9590
He will answer your questions.

 

19psig isn't typical unless you're running a stock cylinder head with a 19%+ pulley on a brand new M45. Are you running twincharged or single turbo?

With 19psig on 380cc injectors, it doesn't matter how much signal you add, you're already at 100%...and you're probably running lean because of it. The MINI ECU does not have any data cells above 7k RPM for fueling, however since it's MAP it just estimates [usually very well] the pulse width.

What kind of power/torque are you running, and with what kind of boosted setup? That will help us offer a suitable injector size. Chances are the fueling system apart from the injectors are fine unless you're running over 400 crank HP.

Like Ric said, Jan @ RMW can offer a superior ECU tune on the stock ECU no matter your hardware configuration.

 

i thank you all for your replies

i would have called jan and most probably i would have asked him to tune my car but i am located in Greece, Athens.

the problem i have isn't faced for the first time.one friend who owns a mini cooper s have exactly the same problem...

my set up is

16% m7, +2 alta , alta v2 ic,alta intake, m7 aerogel, playmini header, miltek cat back, jcw injectors, ngk iridium sparks, DT bypass valve, ecu tune

my friend's setup is:

15% alta , +2 alta, alta intake, gp intercooler, rmw header, rmw camshaft, jcw catback, jcw cylinder head, jcw gp spurks, ecu tune

we both have a boost meter and we both see 1.3 boost (limiting the 4th gear).

so please tell me if you need any more data that will help you to propose me a solution

jan if you read this topic it would be very much appreciate if you help us...

Both our cars have the stock supercharger.

i run on 202 whp/ torque ~26kgs at the wheels
my friend runs on 200 whp ~ 26kgs at the wheels

(i know that to most of you these nymbers do not look good...but bear in mind the differece between the dynometers and the difference in the climate)

Does anybody know about the clamping effect?

i also know that i can unplug the MAP sensor of my car and that will allow me to tune the fuel injectors us much as possible...do you know anything about that?

reminder: i want my car to rev until 7500...

many thanks

 

You can solve the problem with this part http://www.hksusa.com/products/?id=631 and a new tune.
The Mini ECU boost map ends at 1,1 Bar, over this point the fuel will be leaned to a dangerous level.
You have to fool the map voltage in this direction that 1,3 Bar tweak down to 1,1 Bar to the ECU, for sure you fuel map has to be modified to the fooled voltage.

 

Have you looked for a Dimsport tuner in your area?

 

Good call Bigshot.
You could always drive to Italy.

 

For that kind of free-flowing hardware I find 19psig difficult to believe. I've seen 19psig from a 19% s/c pulley with stock head and header, but with the JCW head + RMW header and GP IC, the flow restriction will plummet, boost will drop because flow rate goes up. Nevertheless, you may need a downstream MAP sensor modifier like an Apexi AFC and the like if you cannot get the results with the ECU tune capability you have.


How do you know that? I'm coming from the perspective of the twincharge and single turbo people, myself included, that have made significantly more power than the OP using the factory ECU and factory 2.5 bar absolute t-MAP sensor. What measurements do you have that give you the conclusions you claim?

 

You face with this effect while highspeed driving for several miles on the german autobahn.
I personaly know a guy whose engine blown up under high load in 6th gear at almost 150 mph.
This problem is mostly present on prefacelift cars with the old ECU showing this by dsc or asc light and check engine illumination above 19 psi boost.

 

Oh, you're in Europe. There's no guarantee EU MINI ECU's are programmed similarly to USA MINI ECU's. I have not experienced what you're referring to.
Here in the US, there is no fuel-cut at 1.1 bar, and no ASC light illumation over 19psig. If you touch 22.05psig the overboost code will appear, because clipping of the t-MAP occurred. I've done that many times!

 

ryephil and madmick thank you very much

ryephil i understand that it is difficult to believe a boost like the one mentioned above on the current setup but its true...(for both cars...)

however, since i have to face a situation like that i ll just do...nevertheless, its not an unhappy one...

i have a very critical question:

supposing that the fuel map ends at 1.1bar and i boost at 1.3 bar (i personally believe that). That means that when i run at high revs....meaninng the ones that the boost goes above 1.3, i can not remmap my ecu...

if i apply a electronic system like the one mention by madmick (the hks) and "fool" the ecu (i will be running at 1.3 bars but the ecu will think that i will be running at 1.1....or less....), then i will be able to apply ecu fueling maps of my acceptance...(after 7000 rpms)???

is that true or the fact that i am actually running 1.3 bar boost will not allow me to map the the ecu correctly?
maybe fueling maps will be able to be applied but will the injectors be able to spay at this boost (the real one)?

other individuals who also have an opinion please join this topic...

thank you all in advance

 

any opinions?

 

Intersting thread

Ryephile is correct that there is no reason to mess with the MAP sensor as you arent creating enough boost to cause an issue. The problem is the fuelling is also adjusted by the fuel pressure regulator which does have a limit of around 17psi of boost as the pump cant provide any more pressure. I would increase your injector size and scale your fuel pressure back.

MINIs blow up on the autobahns for one reason.....they are too lean! Too lean for extended amounts of time like 2 or minutes causes so much heat build up something has to melt. And if you were cruising beforehand you'll already be running seriously hot from running 14.7AFR.

p.s. if you cause an offset of the MAP sensors(dont forget you have two and they must read the same off boost) then you will feel the pain of it running horrible and more than likely Limp.

 

mini - morgan after searching a lot...i finally agree. i am going to add larger injctors (440) and adjust the fuel pressure by software. although i do not have an aftermarket header,but since i want to increase my revs i need larger injectors in order to be safe....

 

You will not solve the problem with this action!

I guess the greek Minis has the same ECU than our germans, when passing more than 1,15 bar the ECU throw an overboost failure code, EML and DSC come on and the engine leans down to Lambda 1 - even with big injectors.

 

Maybe you live in an extremely high pressure part of the world

 

What I dont understand....
With 1,3 Bar / 19 PSI boost with a 17% or 18% Pulley you either has a gasflow problem or a serrious thermal issue.
According to the mods, both cars should have at least 20 hp more at the wheels, espacialy the one with the RVM parts on it.

 

thanosman what boost you have in 5000-6000
and what afr?

if you have normal afr then you need injectors,
if you have a fuel cut then bigger injectors wont solve the problem


Indeed EU cars with US car have a difference on this issue.

 

hi all

@madmick: ok i understand your point but when i overpass the normal boost level only dsc in on and not the eml....

also, please bear in mind that all dynometer have a lot of differences between each other...

i know minis that in other dynometers run on 220+ whp and they are so strong as mine...(i am sorry, i cant say more than that.its a policy here and i respect it)

@najanaja at 5000-6000 rpm i run 1 bar maybe a little more....1,05
what my programmer tried to reprogram the ecu after identifying the lean condition he tried to different staff

1) give more fuel at almost 6500 rpm. at this point the injector corresponded well and more fuel was applied
2)give more fuel beyond the 7000 but i remeber him telling me "the injectors do not correpsond,they cant inject any more, you need larger.

 

I guess it is fuel cut but injectors will be needed in any case.


if you see suddenly 14afr over 7000k it is fuel cut and not just "lean"

 

my fuel map only goes upto 6400rpm! Confused how you can increase at higher rpms....

 

@najanaja...thanks

if it is a fuel cut ( i dont imply that it is not) that means that i wont be able to overcome it without modifying the electonics of my car....? i am asking that because in greece and in other countries (as far as i study in this forun) they can run their cars (at least some guys do) at 7500+...do they do it electronically only or larger injectors help anyway...?if yes, in what matter?

thanks naja

@mini-morgan fuel maps at 6400 or your mini is reving at 6400???


please guys...bear in mind that i want to increase my revs at 7500...

 

very interesting convo. anything more found on this subject?

 

i finally istalled lerger injectors (440) and i run up to 7500

the question though still applies since a friend of mine (here in greece) runs his own mini at 7500...with a great a/f ratio...do not know how he did it...he has more staff installed than i do...i do not think that this is a reason for his result though...

 

If I was in Greece I would tune it for you. The MINI main fuel map Y axis which is 16 elements in size and it is scaled to a max of 7000 RPM. You can increase these cells by changing the Y axis of the fuel map up to 8000 RPM and the ECU would use those changed cells and use it's table lookup interpolation subroutine to scale the fuel map to 8000RPM when it reads the scale from Flash and store it in IRAM (internal RAM). This function is not available through Dimsport.

Jason