so ...maybe my last tech question.
Should i pull the signal for the controller from Boost or the MAF. if MAF is the MAF in a Mini S a HZ based sensor (as with GMs and Mitsubishis) or is it a 0-5V system (as with Fords)?

Thanks to all for the info

 

The Mini has a MAP system(I think that's what you meant by Fords, I know in the old days they used speed-density systems). That being said, I'm not sure what signal you will be picking up from the TB area for throttle position(I'm assuming thats what you want). I assume it's a 0-5v MAP system but I've never dug into that area and I'm sure someone else could be of more help.
Are you using a progressive or on/off based system?
Boost works OK, but it depends on what you are trying to achieve.

 

I am going to use a progressive controller and read a signal off the MAF.

Just need to know the signal type

 

With all the cool and unique things you have done what does your HP and TQ look like these day's? Did you do any before and after dyno's to verify your upgrades?

Longboard

 

thats silly talk. he does real r and d, all confirmed by a perfectly calibrated butt dyno.

 

Yes before. I am still working on the w/m The one thing I do not like is no one has 90* nozzles. They make 90* for mounting but they still spray down. So having them in the intake runner is a good location but the end spray is not. So I a may have to make my own. Also I am thinking on running 2 pumps to increase my max psi to 170 instead of 120.

 

I apologize to El_Griton. reading it again I can see that it was in fun. I am a little touchy because of soem other threads that I have been highly criticized.
Again I am sorry.

 

I think that less is more in this situation just let it pass. Im sure he was joking. as most of us are.

 

 

With the first very primitive W/W system I made the first result was how clean the spark plugs stayed. After using it for a few hundred miles I used my Borescope to see what the insides of the combution chamber looked like. Amazingly the tops of the piston and the vales looked almost new. No carbon anywhere. So that began my quest to make a really good system. Lots of trail and errors. And holes drilled all over my intake system. I buy JB weld by the quart. i

 

Thanks I see what you are saying. I should have thought a minute before responding.

 

Hey folks ...

A bit of a bump ... as I am still after some info...
Need to know the signal type ... then confusd me in the last sentence of a reply from Snow
...So do I want MAF or boost referenced signal ???
here is a reply I recieved from SNOW
>>>

As I recall, the supercharged Minis are a roots type blower, meaning instant boost when you romp on it. In that case we prefer to modulate the injection based on the MAF signal so that you get a nice progressive curve as opposed to a sudden blast of injection.
This leads me to a question: If the MAF in a Mini S a HZ based sensor (as with GMs and Mitsubishis) or is it a 0-5V system (as with Fords)?

In either case, we have a controller that can handle both types of signal. We also have a controller that can handle both boost referenced injection and 0-5V MAF based injection.

Either system will help with lowering intake temps. On non-intercooled applications we have seen 100 degree plus intake air temp drops. With your very effective IC setup already, I would expect more modest decreases, but significant cooling none the less.

The largest benefit though is in the octane gain. Injection of a 50% methanol concentration yields about 23 points of octane gain on 91 or 93 octane gas. This allows for more timing advance, and more boost. We see healthy gains this way in both small efficient DOHC 4 cylinders and the larger OHV power plants.

Let me know what sort of MAF signal the Mini uses and we can go from there. Either the 20010 or the 20012 kit will work for you, its just a question of which will work best. The MAF referenced system will be smooth and more accurate in you particular case, though a boost reference system will also work and work well.

 

I would talk to them with the reality how slow the total boost comes in on the minis and that most only get around 16-19 psi boost? Just based on that I would guess they change there recommendation to the controller that is boost referenced?

 

Because of my set up I was able to spray dead center and strait into the inlet of the intake manifold. It works great. I know what you mean about clean cylinders. When we pulled my old ones out they looked new at 35,000 miles.

I look forward to seeing some before and after figures from you.

LB

 

This should be cool!

 

Now when you say dead center you are talking about one nozzle at the inlet side of the intake runner right?
See I did that and then went with 1 nozzle just behind each of the fuel injectors.

Longboard don't expect any posted #s. That is something I decided in 2005 I would never do. You think I get questioned about some of my toys now.

 

Actually my findings are different. The last few pounds of boost builds a little slower in the upper gears, but in any gear 2nd thru 6th, I can go from light cruise to an immediate crack of 1/4 throttle and hit 10lbs. instantly. If using a boost based progressive system, theres not much progressive-ness to it unless it's for the last few pounds. It acts more like an on/off switch unless you have it come on at very low boost settings then still jumps when boost hits, which can be instantly depending upon the driving style.

COR BLMY, I was always under the impression that an octane point was .1. That means they're seeing a rise in octane of 2.3 total, or from 91 to 93.3 in Cali.

 

The 1/4 mile doesn't lie. Post some trap speeds.

 

2" outside the opening of the intake manifold spraying strait into it. Yes, just one nozzle. I like to keep things simple. I have seen pics of the things you have done and your work is impeccable but pretty complex for most.

It's really to bad you won't post some numbers but that's your choice. The only problem with not posting is that it makes every thing you talk about just theories to us without some data showing how these things work. I know full well about getting hammered for showing numbers . Keep in mind that I've been around since 2003.

Longboard

Longboard

 

I saw that on the octane myself you are correct it is .1 I think they just had a type o.

And you also may be correct about the boost? I set mine regulator very low pre-boost so I can take advantage of getting a little better fuel economy on the highway.

 

I will post a pic of the system the next time I pull the I/C off.
And I have been around since 2002 when everyone was new. Then you came along.....I remember the postings and never said a word! I thought that someone should be able what you did and you did! You should feel old now.

 

Very good reverse calculation. While I see what you are going for I would not really care to subject my Mini to a 1/4 run. First the cable crap shifting and the plastic flex about shift box would not allow for speed shifting. I have tried. Please I hope no one post they can Second I do not as of yet have a LSD . Also my oem clutch at this point will not hold with what I have anyway. And my suspension is to tight for the 1/4, wrong tires...bla bla bla.

But nice thought.

My X wife 15 year younger driving my S/G camaro could hit consistent .450 I had to struggle at .500 and averaged .575. The only thing I had going for me was my car was perfectly dialed to run 990s every time. And that was in 1990.

Oh and trap speeds change if you deep stage LOL

 

so "big howe" is your vote for then reading the MAF ?
and if so ... what kind of signal is it ? HZ or Volt ???

 

I'm going to tell you the honest truth on MAP or boost, I don't know. I've run the boost, and from above, you can see how it works. The MAP might be worth a shot. I think it's volts, but don't take my word for it. Since it's DBW, theres another variable there to consider without going out with a DMM and just measuring it. Since the boost/load "curve" is very un-linear to the throttle position, either way it's a big compromise. After that, you'll tinker with it for a long time trying to get it adjusted right.
After my new DAQ equipment goes on, I'll be able to look at a lot of variables at once, and will have a much better understanding of how to set the system up better.

P.S. As I said, since it's drive by wire, the computer isn't really reading throttle position, it's "telling" throttle position. So I'm not sure what you'll find at the throttle body. Sorry for my lack of help, but I just haven't looked it the signals in that area yet and don't want to give you bad info. You might try posting a new thread in the drivetrain forum, someone might give you the answer.