Just been having a little think about CAIs and I have thought of a potential problem with the forge CAI - I am probably wrong however so please could someone correct me if this is the case!!
Ok basically the forge CAI is connected to the cold air feed which as we all know is routed to the front of the car. Now my theory is that when the bonnet is closed, it actually blocks entry to this passage so not air much can be getting into that pipe surely? When you close the bonnet it actually completely covers the mouth of this pipe, so where is it getting air from??
So with regards to the forge CAI which relies on getting a good supply of cool air through this pipe... surely it cant be all that effecient when compared to the Alta CAI which clearly can suck air from anywhere it wants due to its open cone style (which ISNT connected to the cold air feed) (whether the air is cool or warm is another issue, i am only talking about air quantities here) The forge CAI as far as I know ONLY gets air from the cold feed pipe because it has 2 holes in it (1 which connects to the stock cold air feed and 1 which links to the turbo as per stock). So the real question is does anyone know if much air actually gets into the cold air feed pipe - because its design would certainly suggest otherwise? Also there is the issue that the cold air feed has about as many twists and turns as a fairly complicated spaghetti junction - again not doing the air flow any favours!!!!...
The reason I ask this is because I am looking into getting a forge CAI because IMO it looks really good and is quite a bit cheaper than other models... but I dont want to buy it if the alta is a better product

Discussions/Opinions and feedback very welcome on this!!

 

The forge CAI and every other product with the same logic (K&N for example), as you mention very correctly, are getting air from the original cold air feed that lies in front of the car.
The question is not veeeery accurate, because, the OEM induction is getting air from just the same pipe in the same place, so the car was originally working that way.
The advantage that these products basically have is that the air has to travel less distance, and is routed directly.
The quantity of the air is just the same.

 

I understand that the original was working the same way (cold air feed leads to stock air box) but basically my question was that does the engine get enough air (ie is enough air able to travel down that standard cold air feed with all its twists and turns) or would a product such as the Alta CAI (which arguably has an unlimited amount of available air which it can feed on, give the engine MORE air for its suck (if you get what I mean, have to be careful how I word this one!!)

If the engine sucks air through the stock air feed, does it suck less air because of the standard air feed blokage by the bonnet, amount of curves and twists etc, which
may lead to a loss of performance over something like the Alta which is 'open'

if the engine sucks air through an open filter such as the Alta, is it able to suck more air quicker because of less restriction/pressure less etc.

Also there is the issue that with the Alta CAI the air has to travel a much shorter distance than with the forge.... would that work against the Forge?

Has anyone tried re-routing the stock air feed anywhere else?

 

Just to clarify, the OEM cold air feed (which the Forge Intake uses) doesn't have anything to do with the bonnet, it's opening is located on the driver side of the upper grille above the bumper. I don't think distance air has to travel is so much an issue since there is no 'vacuum' space, but the possibility of max airflow limits due to restrictive size of that OEM cold air feed could be a limiting factor. I don't own the Forge piece, but from the look of it, they convert the airbox and subsequent tubing to maximize airflow in that area.

The Forge CAI is definitely getting cold air since it's coming from the front of the car.

The Alta CAI is getting air from directly above and behind the engine where the filter is. By taking the bonnet grille off you're getting cold air through that opening as well as air dumped in just below the intake from the OEM cold air feed. I'm not sure Alta properly named their intake.. high-flow open air intake might have been more accurate, but no matter. I have it and I am very happy with it.

I don't think there is enough of a difference performance-wise to decide on that premise, unless you plan to transform your MINI into an HP monster and will need all the air you can get. The Alta CAI should be more audible. Also, if you live in CA I believe an open air intake is against CARB emission rules and you wouldn't pass smog.

 

But realistically, is the Alta actually getting any cold air from the stock cold air feed? Because without the air feed being directly attached to the engine it isnt being 'sucked on' so it becomes just a piece of pipe which isnt attached to anything, and because of the positioning of the opening to the cold air feed pipe (as you pointed out, above the bumper), but it is blocked by the closing of the bonnet - so no cold air actually 'blows up' the pipe - so surely the stock air feed pipe becomes redundant once you disconnect it from the turbo inlet, and it doesnt actually blow any air onto the Alta CAI at all?

 

1. You're probably right that the Alta intake's little connection to the stock hose probably doesn't do anything. I bet if they sold their intake without that connection there would be negligible differences, if any. It is just a reason for them to build a fancy shroud and charge more. The real advantage with their system is their filter which is top notch!

2. Again, as FugitiveAI mentioned, when the hood is closed it does not cover the opening. Close your hood and crouch down in front of your car. Notice how (when you are in font looking at it) the right side of the upper grill has an opening that is not on the left. You can see the inlet to the air tube through this opening.

 

It actually does. The low pressure area created by the suction action of the turbo drawing in air. This is shown by the gains on the dyno.

Also, my biggest issue if I can say it with the Forge setup (and if I am out of line PLEASE feel free to snap me one) is the filter. It is TINY in that box thingy. The car needs a LARGE filter to cleanly and efficiently draw in air flow. The amount of restriction created by :

1) the long tube itself. Think of breathing through a toilet paper tube, or a garden hose.

2) That filter is so small that it will get VERY dirty quickly and thus become an even larger restriction almost immediately.

I will say the concept of only cold air is not only solid but worth while. BUT in reality on the R56 it made little effect on dyno results with the hood shut. I will say (again snap me if you want) that we will be offering a cold air bath set up for the existing intake systems in the coming months. Few other things on the burner to get off first. But it will be an add on, look ultra classy and not cost an arm and a leg.

Thanks for letting me poke! Chat soon!

 

Not true. almost immediately is .... what??? 1 hour after installation? a week? I have it for a week or so and my MINI is sucking air just fine... I will think one HAS to clean a foam filter even more often as is in OPEN air with ANY open element foam filter one needs to be cleaning and keeping an eye on it, after all if some one is adding performance products to their MINIs they should be paying attention to maintenance.

I think the nice part about performance products is that there is choices.

Best!... At this point on the life of the R56 is subjective. There is not enough competition out there to be BEST! Of course this is just my opinion... But I tell you, The forge CAI looks beautiful, There is something about carbon fiber and there is a positive difference between the Forge and the JCW set ups.

 

Look I 100% agree that it is nice there are choices. While I am biased () I am not blind.

Here is what I think you can help the group with. Take a photo of the filter etc. So we can better see the size, shape and composition.

An open filament air cleaner (larger the better) allows dirt to collect over a large surface area, lessening any restrictions, and allowing more opportunity for clean air to enter the engine.

A small enclosed filter concentrates that dirt over a smaller surface area, increasing restriction far faster than if it had a larger more open area. You would be the perfect person to now show the group the dirt concentration (if any) in a month from installation.

Again as I mentioned at the outset, I like the concept. I just think (emphasis on think no know) that the execution could be better.

Also, an independent should dyno test the available systems to see the comparisons. Both clean and dirty.

Again, I am NOT, NOT, NOT poking at you. You and I have a great repoir on and off the forums!

Chat soon!

 

ahhh if you are not poking at me then is no fun...I give up.

hey! I know... when I get my hands on an alta filter I will take pictures of everything next to the forge, I do love pictures, If I can I may also put one on my MINI and see the difference, if ANY I will report also as non biased person LOL ..but you are right sometimes size does matter.