Question,
if one was to change the ignition wires to NOLOGY, MAGNECOR, should one change the spark plugs? A hotter plug?

Anybody have suggestions?

 

ttt

Good question... I just bought the jackson racing wires.

Anyone?

 

if any thing go colder, me randy and several others found that two ranges colder with the pulley upgrade made a difference, without pulley i ould probably try one range depending where you are, im in the south with alot of heat so it should help but if you up north, or a cooler climate stay with stock range

 

>> im in the south with alot of heat so it should help but if you up north, or a cooler climate stay with stock range

Was that a joke?

If not, I'm not sure what outside-air temperature has to do with plug-temperature.

I mean, the coolant is going to be the same if the thermostat is set the same, and the
intake air temperature is WAY WAY lower than combustion temperature, so what
difference would outside-air temperature make.

 

Caddman... So, which plugs & wires are you and Randy/others using?

Similar to the author of this thread I am thinking that a larger wire with thicker insulator = larger heatsink. ...And therefore it should be able to absorb a greater amount of heat, and possibly faster. So, couldn't larger wires effectively create a colder plug?

I have the pulley, EVOtech, Magnaflow, & BMP intake with cowl mod & Magnecore wires. Yes I'm North, but its 90+ degrees here right now. So... if you're gonna benefit I suspect I might too.

 

I would be interested in this as well.

 

No thats not a joke, your outside temperature as well as humidity and altitude does play a role in how your engine performes, as with higher ambient air temps your chances for detonation are higher, therefore the reason for colder plugs, for example in the winter (45-65 degrees) my intake charge temps from my data logger are around 110-120 degrees due to supercharger raising the temps(also the reason for a larger or water to air intercooler), now that it is mid july my temps are (85+) my intake temps are 160 to 170 therfore the ambient air is effecting my engine on how well it performs, colder the air the denser the air and the more power it has as well as small amount of cylinder cooling, yes coolant does help, also another fact is that now that the air is hotter i do not create as much boost, as well as motors create less HP when it hot.. so to say that the outside air has no effect your plain crazy....I have had plenty of performance cars that i had a winter and a summer set of plugs..like i said in the original thread depends where you live as to what you should do, now if i lived in maine i would be saying the same thing but that you probably should be running a warmer plug in the winter.....


As far as the plug im running, i have posted here, and do not remeber at the moment and am unable to run out an pull a plug but i will tommorow, I think the JCW kit using a bkr6equip, where as the stock is a bkr7equip, one range colder, i and using a non precious metal plug due to my ignition, so i am using a autolight race plug do not remember the number, but will post.........

 

Sorry, but Im running Msd ignition, and Msd Wires....

also to add a note on my other comment and intercooler change may or may not warrent a plug change...thats a trial and error!

 

caddman is so right about how ambient air temperature subtly affects
horsepower. Maybe 5% or so.

Now does a 100 degree difference in ambient air temperature turn into
MAYBE 10 or 20 degree difference in air temperature inside the combustion
chamber at something like 1000 degrees F. REALLY mean I should use a different
spark plug range in the winter?

I doubt it.

But if you absolutly need the extra 1 or 2 HP, lose some weight.

OK, put in whatever plugs you want, but I'll say unless your plugs are fouling that
you're fine.

 

Of course, Im taking the racing side, now for the everyday driver, your right as long as your not detonating or fouling the plugs your ok! Not trying to start argument, but just trying to state theh performance facts.... yes it is crazy to have a winter/summer plug, but in absolute performance there are crazier things, just go watch the drag guys they tune their carbs every run due temp,humidity,baro pressure... so theres extremes to everything.....

 

Air temperature in the intake manifold has a clear (at least to me) correlation to horsepower:

 

>>Question,
>>if one was to change the ignition wires to NOLOGY, MAGNECOR, should one change the spark plugs? A hotter plug?
>>
>>Anybody have suggestions?


Unless the high tension plug wires are somehow having a substantial affect on the temperatures being produced inside the combustion chamber (the ability to produce a much hotter spark is one way that comes to mind, but that I would think would be due to a different ignition coil, not so much different plug wires) only about 2% of the heat produced in the combustion chamber is dissipated by the spark plug high tension wires, so I would see no need to necessarily change the plugs to a colder heat range. Turbo charged, supercharged and engines running nitrous oxide typically run colder plugs to help dissipate the higher combustion temperatures they produce. Choosing the proper heat range on a spark plug is really quite simple. If the engine is properly turned and using the correct octane gasoline and the plug is fouling out in normal driving, the plug is too cold. If on the other hand there is pre-ignition at high temperature and high speed the plug is too hot. The need to change the spark plug heat range due to ambient air temperature may become necessary in highly turned, high compression racing engines used under sustained high load and high rpm conditions but it is not necessary for an engine used in normal street driving.

_________________
2003 Chili Red/White MCS, sport pack w/white wheels, cold weather pack, black leather w/anthracite dash, DVD-based Navigation w/OBC, HK sound, MFSW, PDC, rain sensing wipers & auto dim mirror.

 

>>Air temperature in the intake manifold has a clear (at least to me) correlation to horsepower:

Right on. About a +/- 1.5% change in horsepower.

And fitting a straight line to that data:

You're the greatest.

And we all know how you can't make CAUSAL conclusions from CORRELATIONS
right??? You are implying that the intake temperature is responsible for the
horsepower changes, and you simply cannot state that from just this graph.

Here's a classic: Ice-cream sales vs. murder rate.

Lower ice cream sales = lower murder rate. Higher sales = higher murder rate.

So, do ice cream sales increase the murder rate? Of course not. They both go
up and down with air temperature. (HEY! just like horsepower )

So, graph what you want, and I agree that cooler, denser air will increase the HP,
but this is soo far off the track from running a cooler plug in the summer it's
not really worth either of our efforts is it?

 

> Choosing the proper heat range on a spark plug is really quite simple.
> If the engine is properly turned and using the correct octane gasoline and the plug is fouling out in
> normal driving, the plug is too cold. If on the other hand there is pre-ignition at high temperature
> and high speed the plug is too hot.

> The need to change the spark plug heat ranges due to ambient air temperature may become
> necessary in highly turned, high compression racing engines used under sustained high load
> and high rpm conditions but it is not necessary for an engine used in normal street driving.


Right on brother. Now you're talking sense.

 

as i stated before, racing plug changes matter, everyday driving as long as you not detonating or fouling your ok, but racing there are probally three ranges that wont foul or detonate but one will make more hp than the others. So I AGREE with you on the everyday point, but track day was the point i was making out, and the plugs that came in my MCS were fouling stock, but for some reason i had bk6equips in there instead of the bkr7equips, but once i change the pulley, intake, etc..i went to the verge of detonation with the Bkr6equip, so i went even colder yet, problem fixed, so up to your driving style, mods etc,......

 

Any thoughts on this plug & wear/discoloration & temp?

After seeing this @ 4000+ miles I went with Denso IK20 Iridiums. Not that I'm certain that the Denso's will fair better, but... Geez do the OE suck!

 

Before model year 1968, the only difference in automobiles imported to the US from Germany were the laminated safety glass windshield in place of tempered glass, sealed beam headlights in place of halogen headlights and the speedometer in miles instead of kilometers. I was working for a Porsche dealer in 1966 when the new 911 came out. We were having a problem with spark plug fouling. I was talking to a young Navy Lieutenant 1st Class and I asked him if he was having spark plug fouling problems with his 911. He looked at me with a perplexed expression and said no, the only problems he was having were keeping his drivers license and rear tires on the car. The cars were coming to the US market with too cold of plug for our drivers and conditions and the young Naval Officer was not having the problem with plugs as he was driving the car the way it was intended.

A few years later I was working for a BMW dealer and BMW was having the same spark plug fouling problems with some of its models in the early 70’s. The cars came with Bosch W200-T30 plugs and that was the only plug I could get from Hoffman Motors (the predecessor of BMW of North America). I found hotter plugs, Bosch W175-T30, at a vendor in Phoenix, AZ called Southwest Diesel and Supply. Much to the chagrin of our BMW distributor we started buying our plugs in AZ and the problem went away. The change of just on heat range can make a difference even in everyday driving. BMW did eventually start supplying Bosch W175-T30 plugs, but it took them awhile.

 

thanks that gives an explination to my problem, wait no it doesnt, i drive crazy, i race everyone all the time......oooo i better shut up now for i see more tickets in my near future... but that is a helpful explination to my previous problem...

 

jerrygee

Thanks for the post. No *****-footing here though.

 

Acually im back home now, the plugs im running are Autolite 3932the the , i need to pull them and check sin i have put a few miles on them to see how they look under the microscope the denso was running was pk20pr-11, they were not cold enough for my mods.....

 

Trippy wrote:

I'd be happy to discuss any data which you have recorded and posted, except that you haven't posted any. Thank you, have a nice day.

BTW, I never said "colder" plugs were needed, simply that your "1.5%" rule of thumb is false. Do some research on the nature of forced induction engines and elevated manifold temperatures before spouting nonsense. If you would actually care to see the rest of the data logged during this session (ECT, etc), feel free to let me know, Please be aware that the results may not match up with your misguided preconceptions.

_________________



1/4 Mile Database

 

>>Please be aware that the results may not match up with your misguided preconceptions.

Ouch. I guess I need preconcieved notions then huh? :???:

And how about another unrelated graph since I do collect data:

See where the fuel system goes open-loop twice? Isn't THAT cool?

Or how about this: Watch the idle speed change as the car warms up.
This is a discontinuous graph where I removed all the non-idle areas.


Oh oh oh, how about coolant-temperature as I drive down the highway, turn around and drive back?


Now notice that MY graphs aren't all gussied up with crazy straight lines fitted to 10 datapoints.

 

What does any of that have to do with your assertion that temperature change in the intake manifold results in at most a 1.5% change in horsepower?

Edit: Maybe I misread your point. What was it again?

_________________



1/4 Mile Database

 

And hear is my own Data logging graph from the couch in the basement:

Notice it rises upward quickly at the begining then it levels off. This could be due to the fact that I am eating after a couple of hours and I do not think during that time (More reasearch is neccessary). Then at about 3 1/2 hours it rises upward again. Then again maybee I just fell asleep but stayed Logged on to MCO

_________________
Doug


When in doubt, Choose the burrito

 

>What does any of that have to do with your assertion that temperature change in the intake
> manifold results in at most a 1.5% change in horsepower?
>
>Edit: Maybe I misread your point. What was it again?

Sorry Andy for the hasty post.

The data for the +/- 1.5% HP gain came from your graph.

Here are the datapoints I guessed from your graph:
166 163 163 164 165 164 163 160 159 158
They add up to 1625
Since there are ten datapoints, we divide by ten to get the average HP
which is 162.5 HP

Now the Max HP is 166 which is a little more than a 2% gain
The min HP on your graph is 158 which is a little less than a 3% loss

So I'll update my numbers and say +/- 2.5% instead of +/- 1.5% sorry for
the incorrect guess the first time. (Pretty close though huh?)