So I've been reading a bit about CAI lately, and I can't help but think about the positioning of the common filter placement. Why aren't people building fiberglass or carbon fiber (for the rich folks) rams from the non-functional hood scoop to push air directly to a CAI filter box?

Is it a question of room, or is the air from the bumper cool enough to do the job?

 

good question...

 

search harder... they exist and they both (fiberglass or CF) cost a pretty penny.

 

It has been done, though it provides almost no benefit.

Putting a box behind the scoop and having air go through it while driving isn't "Ram Air" it's just air. Every CAI design i've seen thus far lacks the box design for a true "Ram Air" induction system. You also have to consider the fact that no matter the force of the air entering the intake, it's going to be pressurized by the turbocharger and heated on the way out. In layman's terms, ram air + turbo = the same amount of air going into the engine as normal intake + turbo. I'm pretty sure any additional boost created by a "Ram Air" effect would just be blown off through the DV. The only benefit of using the hood scoop as an induction source would be a plentiful cool air, though given it's proximity to the turbo, the windshield vent seems like a much more plausible induction source (Since that typically stays much cooler, not to mention while you're not moving you'd be sucking air pretty much directly from the turbo from the scoop).

More info on Ram Air Induction: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ram-air_intake

 

I remember reading a few vendors' posts regarding a ram-air setup, and most felt it was an unnecessary expense that yielded little if any gain.

 

ghosthound - your car is my car's twin... even your garage looks similar. Click my sig, you'll see.

 

I was just looking at the cold part of the equation...

 

Have you looked under your hood? Its pretty tight, packaging is a major issue in making a ram air or cold iar intake.

 

looks good!! Laser blue is an awesome color!! i just love how it can change so much depending on the current lighting condition.

 

is probably the single most abused automotive term for street cars. Do the math on the pressure vs speed, and you'll find that any "ram" benefit is pretty much zero till you start getting to triple digit speeds (in MPH, not KMH). While it sounds nice, it's marketing BS, pure and simple. Sure, a true drag car blasting sub 7 second quarter miles will get a benefit, but your mini pretty much won't.

Matt

 

15 years ago, factory airboxes on 110hp1.6L cars (read Civic) were designed for two things: filtering dirt and quiet operation. You could easily improve performance by swapping in a new setup that took air from a cool spot with good airflow. On a modern forced induction car like an STI, EVO or MINI, you'd better believe the manufacturer has done their homework to make the design help performance, not hurt it. Add to that the 'pull' of forced induction and the stock airbox is plenty good. Save your pennies and just run a panel filter if you want....you won't be leaving any performance on the table, despite claims to contrary that are intended to part you from your scrilla.

a perfect example of 'ram air' gone wrong - 'SPT' Is Subaru of America's in-house tuner parts department. They came up with 'cold air intakes' for the STI and the Legacy GT. Cobb Tuning, a well established tuner who makes an ECU map delivery system called the AccessPort did some testing and datalogging for each, in support of their ECU maps. They released a white paper saying that the LGT model actually hurt performance vs. the stock airbox and therefore would not support it with their maps (the STI one was ok....different design). And this is a product from the manufacturer!!

How do you think R&D is done at smaller outfits that we see in the aftermarket business? "It fits? Good, let's sell it" Sure, some do more like dyno pulls, but don't count on improvements.

 

and let's not forget... it's FI so the RAM is already happening... LOL

 

Very nice replies. I agree with the statements about "the engineers know what they're doing", I was just thinking if you're putting a CAI on the car, wouldn't you want the air to be cold?? I guess what the consensus is is that CAI in a MINI is good for one thing.... bench racing??

edit: two things actually; a lovely noise as well

 

what makes you think you're not getting cold air with the stock intake tract? you think MINI would take the flow from inside the engine bay? Follow the path

If you truly want a cold ram air setup, get a big scoop!

 

Great write up.

 

that is a hot leggy wagon!

 

Give M7 a call their new AGS-R is exactly what you are looking for.....

 

I love it !!
Made my morning !!

You know, I think I've seen that driving around town!

 

Check DDMworks. They have a good "ram-air" setup.

 

ram air on a turbo car = an awful waste of money and total gimmeckry by whichever manufacturer is trying to sell it to you...


ram air on an r56 S is like peeing in the ocean... it will never make a differnce...

 

The difference between a stock airbox and an open tube for a 2005 S was 3-4 hp on the dyno. I went to a pulley party not expecting to do anything but hangout and the car was still in winter trim hence the stock airbox. Did a run with the airbox and one with it disconnected. I used to run a HAI for the whining noise! Everyone loved it including me! Will really miss that noise.

 

On the SCed Mini, you dropping a bunch of PSI via the stock intake plumbing, and getting the pressure up in front of the SC really moves more air through it. Looking at an efficiecy map on a turbo, seems to me that you can do the very same thing. Now, on a street machine that's never going very fast, there's just no real ram air effect to be had, so yes, it's a waste of time and effort. But on turbo drag cars I see ram air horns all the time, and they hit the speeds nessisary to gain benefit. I just don't understand why a turbo won't get any more mass flow if you're putting more mass at the intake. Seems like it should.

Now it may pull more timing, but that's another thing, and has nothing to do with the mass flow of the turbo, it's just hitting the knock sensor harder. While I do see this "don't need ram air on a turbo" line all the time, I've never for the life of me ever seen a good explanation about why. Is this just some morph of "there's no such thing as ram-air on a street car, it just goes too slow"?

Matt

 

Very expensive - check out

http://www.gruppemeurope.com/frc.html
http://www.gruppemeurope.com/frc_bmw.html#

 

I think this thread is for the second gen. R56...

 

DDM has a functional setup you can buy now, but it's not very pretty...
M7 has a wicked looking setup that's been "going into production soon" for several months...
& Alta has their CAI that gets some air from the scoop (after you unblock it as they recommend) & some from the factory intake by the headlight ...

Sure the RAM effect isn't likely to produce any sizable gains, but I just hate having a 'fake' hood scoop.

My money's on M7 with their new less expensive (then the AGS-R) Super-AGS system, it's supposed to be sub-$300 ... of course I'd really like to see Alta come out with some thing a little "prettier" (enclosed, oem looking,...)

It's kind of painful waiting for all these new products to mature & make it to market vs. all the great choices for the R53..