I agree the roller coaster AFR of the R56 MCS is poor. It's not going to look like a good ECU's AFR graph. The reason a piggyback works on the R56 isn't because the AFR is tweaked, it's because the boost is raised. My conclusions so far on GDI seem to point to AFR not making as large an impact on power as long as it's somewhere in the safe range [which is obviously different than carb or port-injection]; the quasi-HCCI is far more effective for power.

 

Here is the dyno from my friend, same day, same dyno, same mods except no piggyback. I wnted to show this so that you can see that the AFR is not off much from my reading. I have come to the conclusion that the dyno place we went to does not have very accurate AFR readings. This can be due to a few different reasons that Ryphile has posted above.

[FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode][/FONT]

 

Can't see the graph

 

Stock ECU, Alta catback, homemade air intake.

I did a dyno last year there with my R53 and the AFR was wack too, so this might not be a good
example.

 

Interesting.. so is we just look at the numbers (and ignore the graph, not sure what is up with that black line), at its richest point you were ~11.7:1 stock, and post piggyback ~13:1?

 

The black line is indeed AFR. This is obvious to me as I've seen stock R56 MCS AFR logs before, but you can see it is color matched to the min/max/avg data box in the bottom of the chart, just like blue is torque and red is power.

 

At the top end, the AFR goes up because it acts like a soft rev limiter. If you notice, once the AFR shoots up, the HP starts to fall off.

Here is my stock Dyno run with AFR. HP on the left, AFR on the right.

 

When I go to 5400rpm and look to the right the black line indicates around -4.96 AFR..

 

No, it says -4.96 for a set of units we know nothing about. Nowhere on that graph can it possibly say "-4.96 AFR". A negative AFR is NOT possible on any internal combustion engine as we know it. Please tell me that you already know this.

 

Thanks for the snide comments. Clearly the fact that there are no units that resemble air/fuel ratios associated with that black line is the basis for our confusion. If you put half the effort in to finding a readable chart we might get somewhere!

 

Sorry you feel I was being snide, I assure you it's not the case. I was trying to help and give you the benefit of a doubt for asking very novice questions. Every graph posted in this thread in attempt to help you has been readable and useful if you take a moment to look at them.

 

Event-Horizon's chart is very helpful. So looking at both curves, they appear to go overly rich and then lean out before redline. The mild power dropoff doesn't seem to indicate a drastic boost drop at ~5800rpm, yet the ratio changes dramatically. Generally a soft rev limiter would go a lot leaner than 14:1...

 

I have been following this post for a while. It kind of scares me, some of the questions you ask are very basic, at least for a tuner. Please do not take this the wrong way, but if you are going to be producing a product that increases boost and changes AFR's in the new MINI you should have a better handle on this, or at least the new MINI engine and ECU, otherwise the results could be catastrophic. I would take all the graphs that people have posted, including mine with a grain of salt. There are just too many variables.

I think your best bet is to wait until you get yours and start some "real" testing. You are going to get many different answers and opinions here, not all are true or accurate. There are some simularities to the 335 but not as many as you think. This is perhaps one of the reasons Vishinu has not come out with anything yet.

Good Luck!

 

Which question is that? I'm just trying to sort through the bad information and come to a conclusion on the factory air/fuel ratios. I think we're finally making a little progress! To be honest I'm pretty surprised so many people here are modifying their cars with no real knowledge of the impact. Adding a full exhaust and intake to a car already running 14:1 at redline without monitoring knock retard sounds like bad news to me. Yet there seem to be a lot of people in that boat here.

Rest assured as soon as I have our car I'll quickly get to the bottom of everything. But I have no issue gathering as much advance information as I can from fellow forum members. If nothing else I will know who to set straight once I do the testing myself.

Vishnu most likely hasn't come out with anything for the R56 as they can't be price competitive in the market. To resell the Interceptor they would need to come in around $1000-1200, well above the other options. It's as simple as that.

 

I talk with someone this past weekend that knows Vishnu on the inside really well He said that Vishnu pretty much dropped the MINI because they are too busy with the 335i and developing for the new Evo X.

I had a Vishnu equipped Evo VIII before the MINI for almost four years and I know how their plans can change and how slow they can be. They had great products, but it's unfortunate that they wont be working on the MINI any time soon, if ever. The Proceed would have been great.

 

PS. I've found the AFRs on direction injection cars to be critical to suppressing knock at higher boost levels, not to mention the EGT benefits of richer ratios.

 

Thats exactly my point. You are asking members about AFR's and many of them probably dont know what one is never mind how they are applied to direct injection.

Granted I am not sure how they come into play on direct injection either,so I am not making fun of anyone. I would feel safe with an intake and exhaust, I do know that BMW/MINI's ECU can adapt very well.

 

I'm not trying to make fun of anyone either, just learn as much info as I can before the car arrives. But my point was rest assured I have no plans to release a product based on hearsay tuning information. This is just discussion to get to know others here and bring me up to speed on the car.

RE: adaption, it really depends on the nature of the systems you're working with. It's clearly a closed loop system, be it based off the wideband, MAF sensor, or both (another burning question I have...). But proof of its adaptive ability on the fueling side would be a before and after dyno showing the air/fuel ratios after significant mods. Kind of what I've been looking for.

That such dynos aren't posted with air intakes or exhaust for sale, for example, makes me wonder if people are hiding things. Or maybe its a non-issue like you say. What is that saying, trust but verify?

 

The Mini world is much different than the Mustang world when it comes to the dyno. Mustang guys dyno often and lean towards paying the little bit extra for AF readings. The Fort Campbell area seems to be a black hole for dynos. I want to dyno my stock car w/AF just for my own personal satisfaction. I don't think that individuals are hiding anything by excluding the AF, but I am not fond of the way some manufacturers are posting gains with other parts installed as opposed to stock vs. part upgrade. This practice often covers up the fact that with the other parts installed already the factory part became a restriction. This fluffs numbers and is all too common unfortunately.

 

Just for reference: the saw tooth pattern.

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ad.php?t=97243

 

The 3rd gear pull looks more like the AF curve my carbed car had. It's good to see that even with the unusual sawtooth, that timing wasn't pulled and the knock sensor wasn't being tripped.

P.S.
Forgive the fragmented posts and my slow uptake on some of what has passed in this thread. The direct injection vs. other fuel system benefits would sink in a little better if my head wasn't so foggy. I had my knee scoped and I've been hopped up on pain killers for the last two weeks.