Drivetrain Under-sized Bearings
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5th Gear
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 769
Likes: 4
From: Michigan
i would just have it shipped to the states anyway. Was it a main or rod big end you spun? I mentioned this in the marketplace thread, but if im not working tomorrow, i will phone my local shop to see, that way you have at least one idea on cost. We will see what happens before we start into the shipping conundrum. I have so many planned upgrades right now, it hurts my brain just trying to decide what to do first (just a teaser, standalone ecu, independent throttle bodies, race cam, and maybe some more displacement as well, well actually, the ecu has to come before the cam and bodies anyway, but a head is also in the works, but beefing internals might be my best place to start).
Do you see what i mean. I should never make a plan without a schedule, cause this is where it leads me. haha
Beecher
Do you see what i mean. I should never make a plan without a schedule, cause this is where it leads me. haha
Beecher
It was the #3 rod journal... And yea, I know what you mean! I'm there myself!!!
...Budgets, I wish they did not exist.
No, this is not to just boost my own count.
Rebuilding to a race engine would be cool...
Peace Keeper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,747
Likes: 1
From: Defiance, Ohio
Hmmm? Do you mean that I have hit the limit for advancing? All I know now is to offer the best and most kowledgable advise that I can. That is what it is all about anyways, right? I am here to learn and teach...
Chris.
Chris.
4th Gear
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 585
Likes: 0
From: Somewhere that no longer exists
ok, so, the boys at the local said welding is not a good idea on a forged crank because it looses its hardness (i told him what engine, and he actually worked with them before! i was shocked), anyway, he said you can have them stress relieved, but its still not a very good thing to do. On forged what you have to do is have them hard chromed, and then reground. He said for them to do it, its $145 to chrome and grind the one back to stock, and then, if you wanted them all done to .010 under, another $45.
So there you go. Hope this helps
Beecher
So there you go. Hope this helps
Beecher
Thread Starter
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5th Gear
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 769
Likes: 4
From: Michigan
ok, so, the boys at the local said welding is not a good idea on a forged crank because it looses its hardness (i told him what engine, and he actually worked with them before! i was shocked), anyway, he said you can have them stress relieved, but its still not a very good thing to do. On forged what you have to do is have them hard chromed, and then reground. He said for them to do it, its $145 to chrome and grind the one back to stock, and then, if you wanted them all done to .010 under, another $45.
So there you go. Hope this helps
Beecher
So there you go. Hope this helps
Beecher
WOW!!!
I just picked up my block and stuff from the machine shop and the guy told me it'll cost $700 to weld it... Maybe I can ship it to you and have that guy do it....
4th Gear
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 585
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From: Somewhere that no longer exists
it would be way cheaper, and i would be willing. Especially after your guy wanting to weld it and my local said welding is a no no. And come to think of it, i am quite sure that i have heard that welding a forged crank was not wise. I would personaly rather have it hard chromed than welded, dont know why i didnt think of it earlier anyway. Sometimes i am extremely senile, haha. Beecher
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5th Gear
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 769
Likes: 4
From: Michigan
Well I took it to another machine shop today for a second opinion and he didn't seem to think it need's to be grounded to .20 so we'll see tomorrow what the number's look like... But he said he can weld it and grind it for $145... and another $100 if I want them all undersized.... What is the problem with welding a forged crank cause he didn't seem to think it was wrong to do???
Forging changes the grain structure
and welding changes it back. You WILL loose strenth. The mettalurgy is well known here.
The act of "hard chroming" or whatever it's called now used to be a mainstay of crank and cam repair. I'd do more phoning and the like to find someone who can do it right.
Would you just weld a hardened knife and regrind it and think it would hold the edge the same way? (The answer is no....)
This sound more like "welding is my hammer, and your crank looks like a nail!"
Matt
The act of "hard chroming" or whatever it's called now used to be a mainstay of crank and cam repair. I'd do more phoning and the like to find someone who can do it right.
Would you just weld a hardened knife and regrind it and think it would hold the edge the same way? (The answer is no....)
This sound more like "welding is my hammer, and your crank looks like a nail!"
Matt
4th Gear
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 585
Likes: 0
From: Somewhere that no longer exists
"welding is my hammer, and your crank looks like a nail!" ahahah, i love it. Yeah, i wouldnt weld it tho, i dont know if that makes me a hypocrit now or not, hahaha. I would have it hard chromed for sure. Somehwere around here last week i was talking about either porsche or ferrari running alloy sleeves in an alloy block with hardchromed sleeves so the piston wasnt running on the alloy. Now thats fancy stuff! Beecher
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5th Gear
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 769
Likes: 4
From: Michigan
Alright dudes... here's what I got and need help with.
There's a NAPA autoparts right by my house with a big machine shop and they specialize in cranks However the shop he would send the crank to, Arizona Hard Chrome,... say's because the car is s/c'd it can be catostrofic to hard chrome it and re-install it because it's going to break... Now I thought it would crack and grenade the motor if it was welded... but isn't the whole point of hard chroming designed for a forged crank, which the forged crank is designed to take hp and boost!!! What do I tell the guy?
There's a NAPA autoparts right by my house with a big machine shop and they specialize in cranks
However the shop he would send the crank to, Arizona Hard Chrome,... say's because the car is s/c'd it can be catostrofic to hard chrome it and re-install it because it's going to break... Now I thought it would crack and grenade the motor if it was welded... but isn't the whole point of hard chroming designed for a forged crank, which the forged crank is designed to take hp and boost!!! What do I tell the guy?and welding changes it back. You WILL loose strenth. The mettalurgy is well known here.
The act of "hard chroming" or whatever it's called now used to be a mainstay of crank and cam repair. I'd do more phoning and the like to find someone who can do it right.
Would you just weld a hardened knife and regrind it and think it would hold the edge the same way? (The answer is no....)
This sound more like "welding is my hammer, and your crank looks like a nail!"
Matt
The act of "hard chroming" or whatever it's called now used to be a mainstay of crank and cam repair. I'd do more phoning and the like to find someone who can do it right.
Would you just weld a hardened knife and regrind it and think it would hold the edge the same way? (The answer is no....)
This sound more like "welding is my hammer, and your crank looks like a nail!"
Matt
"welding is my hammer, and your crank looks like a nail!" ahahah, i love it. Yeah, i wouldnt weld it tho, i dont know if that makes me a hypocrit now or not, hahaha. I would have it hard chromed for sure. Somehwere around here last week i was talking about either porsche or ferrari running alloy sleeves in an alloy block with hardchromed sleeves so the piston wasnt running on the alloy. Now thats fancy stuff! Beecher
Turbius Maximus
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,416
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From: Infinity and beyond
no one can say YES or NO to that... cuase if they say yes.. it could still fail... and no.. well then you still need one... so I say you just get one... have you talked to RMW about a stock one?
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5th Gear
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 769
Likes: 4
From: Michigan
Yea, Jan said he might have one, but he hasn't gotten back to me with a price yet.... What is one worth used? Cause im still gonna have to have it checked for clearane in the journal's....
4th Gear
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 585
Likes: 0
From: Somewhere that no longer exists
boy oh boy. This is getting complicated. I think i would take them chrome over the weld. I will try to get up early tomorrow and phone a friend of mine that might be able to shed some more light on this. He is an ex tool and die maker, and know too much for his own good on topics like this. I will phone him and see if i cant get an independent, quasi-professional decision out of him. Hey, why dont you phone a mini tech and see what they do to reman them, or do they just grind them to .010 This is one of the problems with engines, everyone assures you they know more than the last guy, and they are always on the opposite end of the spectrum. Oy. Beecher
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5th Gear
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 769
Likes: 4
From: Michigan
boy oh boy. This is getting complicated. I think i would take them chrome over the weld. I will try to get up early tomorrow and phone a friend of mine that might be able to shed some more light on this. He is an ex tool and die maker, and know too much for his own good on topics like this. I will phone him and see if i cant get an independent, quasi-professional decision out of him. Hey, why dont you phone a mini tech and see what they do to reman them, or do they just grind them to .010 This is one of the problems with engines, everyone assures you they know more than the last guy, and they are always on the opposite end of the spectrum. Oy. Beecher
The problem I'm running into with the dealer is they don't know **** about the Mini cooper... The name "TECH" is just a title... if the crank is in the condition mine is in, you know what they do, replace it under warrenty and if you need a new one and you dont have warrenty, it's $1,700... And as far as one mechanic to the next knowing more, I'll take Tuls' word over any of them next to Jan... so hopefully I can get a hold of Jan within the next week... You've been a big help though Beecher and I appreciate your running around lookin' for info. That would be great if you can get ahold of that your friend tomorrow. Keep me informed...
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5th Gear
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 769
Likes: 4
From: Michigan
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mini-...QQcmdZViewItem
Any idea if this long block on eBay is out of an S or not? He dosnt know but it has serial number's on it.... Maybe Beecher???
Any idea if this long block on eBay is out of an S or not? He dosnt know but it has serial number's on it.... Maybe Beecher???
4th Gear
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 585
Likes: 0
From: Somewhere that no longer exists
ok, phone my friend today. He said, either can be done, if they are done correctly, which is apparently a very hard thing to have done on a commercial level (industrial is fine, but i guess most people offering such services to the public dont do it right). If your going to weld, you must anneal it first, then weld, then re heat treat. If your going to chrome, you also must re-heat treat. He said considering that mini is only offering 10 thou bearings, the crank may be nitraded, and the hardness is only say 15 tho, so they wont go more, because you get out of the hardness. That said, he said buying the factory re-man would be your best bet because they know what is the best process, and they can grind it all down more, and re nitride it if they desire. He said he would be more concerned about getting a reliable crank than trying to save a hundered bucks or so, especially since the reman comes with bearings anyway. Anyway, food for thought, but my opinion would be to do what he says, i follow his advise about 99% of the time, and has always worked out. Beecher