Since you know so much, why don't you explain to everyone exactly what the JCW Stage 1 kit is doing then, besides replacing the resonator pipe, muffler, air box, and adding a few stickers/emblems.

 

I don't know exactly what it's doing, because NOBODY HAS ONE YET!!!

However, I do know that you stating it is impossible to make more power without using more fuel is re-freakin-diculous!!! Car manufacturers do it all the time. One year a model will get let's say 20 mpg, and the next year with the SAME ENGINE that same car will get 22 mpg.

You shouldn't say things are impossible, because people or things come along and prove you wrong, and then you look like a dingus. Nobody wants to look like a dingus.

 

Of course you don't know, that's why you should stop posting on this thread. They're going to go in and change the parameters of the ECU. It's pretty simple. How else do you think they're going to get more HP and Torque.

There's no way a car can get better gas mileage if they don't change something. If you believe that, then WOW!.

Show me a car that has 500 HP and gets 40 MPG then we'll talk. Until then, I'm done with this thread. Good luck.

 

Holy jeebus dude, seriously??? And you say I should stop posting? You are proving your complete and utter ignorance time and time again. Whatev panda bear. Whatev.

 

the corvette z06 gets 29 mpg and has 530 hp

my mini has 176 hp and gets 29mpg

 

Very nice.


To be fair, the Z06 has 505 HP, and gets 26 MPG, but close enough!

 

here is some real world experience to prove that more horse doesn't always mean less mileage.....

my 2002 WRX stock 227hp = 23mpg
2002 wrx 300hp = 19 mpg (manual boost controller, intake, turboback exhaust)
horse power up mileage down

but my 2004 WRX with VVT stock 227hp = 24mpg
2004 wrx VVT 300hp = 27mpg (Cobb Accessport re-flash unit, intake, turboback exhaust)
horse power up mileage up

with the remapped fuel curves the VVT actaully was able to push out more hp with BETTER fuel economy!

 

THE Z06 Does not make 505 hp at 26mpg.

More power comes at a price of hydrocarbons...your MPG at that power can change....

the only way to make more power is more fuel or better effiencey...if you trot around in a zo6 at 100 km/h you are probalby only using 50hp.

*EDIT: This argument with EPA steady state testings VS WOT/peak power is not compariable. Peak power will come from more fuel, Variable vavle timming will only work well at throttled power, WOT is WOT and you should it will be run a little rich, at other times you will run lean.

 

panda bear? thats cute guys

 

JCW is always more expensive than similar aftermarket offerings. It always has been and always will be. Lots of reasons why, just get used to it. The debate about if it's worth it or not is very subjective, with no absolute answer.... It comes down to cost vs factory options vs warranty status vs performance benefit, and each of us makes that decision differently.

Now about the pissing contest on HP vs gas mileage. The two are related, but not as directly as the debate indicates. You CAN change how efficiently an engine converts gasoline to useable work, and this is the way you can get more power and better efficiency (at same RPM or powerlevel or whatever). In fact, the best types of adders do both! As long as the debaters don't acknowledge this simple fact, there will be no resolution.

Matt

 

Right now I own a 2005 Cobalt SS/SC. When I purchased it had 205 whp (dynoed) 200 TQ, and got around 22-25MPG depending on my driving style. Now, 2 years later, I have headers, downpipe, exhaust, air intake, 60# injectors, and a new tune with HP Tuners, and I easliy get 26MPH driving heavy footed every where. If I drive conservatively, I get about 32 MPG city and 36 MPG on the highway. I dynoed @ 253 WHP/ 235 TQ. The tune is a perfect A/F ratio, so I'm not running lean in order to improve gas mileage. Definitely a gain in horse power, and also a gain in gas mileage. I think it really depends on the vehicle and the tune. My husbands WRX gets bad gas mileage no matter what, but I guess compared to the Cobalt a lot of cars get bad gas mileage.

 

Of course you can only go 26 MPH driving heavy footed, it's a CHEVY!!! I keed I keed!

 

...And you forgot to mention people who can afford it and people who will opt for a budget choice, not intending to say the "other" options are less, But for sure will have not gone thru the testing the JCW is going before it hits the market. Oh yeah and the 2 badges make a big difference ($210 for both alone at the dealer parts counter)...On resale as well. I see it all the time on the R53 models which have a JCW kit, values are up there... You see a MINI for sale with an exhaust from this brand and a home made intake with a super dupper KN filter and software from XYZ and to me its a MINI which have been modded...Oh and Modded in used carland means butchered and less value because is performance is unverifired. I buy and sale cars and motorcycles all the time and mod my vehicles all the time and I can tell you that a modded vehicle looses value versus a vehicle which has a factory performance package installed by factory techs.

Warranty is the key word.

If you can, you will get it, if you don't you always going to find a way to make your MINI faster, it's called youification, it's not a wrong way or THE right way, JCW is not the $*****, but sure makes it a John Cooper Works MINI, and thats worth what is worth. and that my friends is worth my 210,000 cents!

Disclaimer: By any means with this comments I have ment to offend anyone with a non JCW tunning new MINI,or anyones buying power, its just my opinion please do not grill me until blacken.

Oh it is my post any way, I can say what ever I want....Ummm.

 

those JCW badges add at least 10HP!

when the heck are the kits going to become available so we can stop theorizing!!!

 

Nice. Very nice point. I hadn't even considered resale value! That alone is worth popping the extra dough for the JCW kit. What other mods can you possibly add to your MINI that actually INCREASE it's resale value? NONE!!!

 

I meant MPG, my bad.

 

Actually, my good friend has a ZO6 and gets over 30mpg on the highway with 505hp.....thats pretty damn good ......sorry to but in....

 

Direct injection drastically increases gas mileage. Simply put, the jcw kit is very expensive for what it is, and the gains will not be THAT great. We'll have to wait to see what happens, but a reflash will come about. Until then, I'll be doing bolt ons, getting an alta IC, and seeing if I'm happy. As soon as someone can tune the car, I hope we see some turbo kits soon. I cant wait to get a gt28rs on this car!

 

wrong, when I looked used the aftermarket mods were about the same as the jcw

 

I've yet to hear of a catback and intake invalidating a waranty, regardless of manufacture

any 335i owners with chips want to chime in? as far as I know chips dont either

 

:impatient I'm not gonna bother getting into it with you too...

 

cat and intake shouldn't - but a chip on the other hand is a whole different story.

 

It still comes down to the dealer having to prove that your modifications caused the damage. MINI is no different from any other car company despite the happy-happy joy-joy spin they throw on things. You think everything is ok, and then you find out what was said about you behind closed doors! That's certainly not the image they project through the media. Could it be (gasp) that they're just like every other company out there?

The JCW kit sure seems like a lot of fluff for the new car. $2100 (without installation charges) for 20hp? Yikes. Them badges better be reaaaaaaallll purty.

 

Hi Guys,

I test drove the JCW at the weekend and here are a few points.

The extra 17hp are at the top end as the rev limit is raised from 5500 to 6000rpm. Below this it feels exactly the same as stock. This is why the emissions and MPG have not changed at all. I test drove the same car before and after kit was fitted and it returned the same MPG.

On UK cars the kit includes a new exhaust manifold ( not downpipe / cat ) and therefore takes 4 hors to fit. The retail price without fitting is £1095. I am picking up my new R56MCW with works kit fitted on 1st Sept. and paid £1185 for the kit fitted. Come resale it will be worth an extra £600 over stock MCS.

So not a lot more power, but then not that expensive taking the above into account. The tips are BIG and look good, the badges look good and it revs far better to the redline. The traction is still good. The sound is a little deeper but you need the window open.

All down to personal preference as to whether you feel it's value for money or not.

C.

 

I know you guys hashed this out a few days ago, but I gotta chime in against the ignorance.

My 2500 Dodge Cummins got 21.8 consistently before a piggyback module and an intake. Afterward, it now gets 23.8 consistently. This is mixed driving, it is 22 and 25 straight higway, respectively. This is because the engine spends less time in less efficient rpm ranges.

thats how an ECU change can get you more power and better mileage. You're gonna try to tell me it is impossible that the JCW kit can't maintain the same fuel efficiency?

As far as ECU reflashes and warranties are concerned, on any motor, it can raise the rev limit, change injection volume, and change timing. On a turbo motor, it can do all of these, plus raise the cylinder pressure. I would have to say that I would not warranty any engine I put together that had any of these paramaters changed, as any of them can stress the engine beyond its design. Most manufacuters see it my way.

Oh, and piggyback modules can be detected, indirectly. There was a Dodge TSB out on how to tell if one had been installed, and to deny warranty on vehicles that had them installed. This was despite (or because of) the horrible reliabilty of the injection pumps on models likely to have the piggybacks.