OK ...consider that Alta has the easiest to modify to a best performing working CAI. Also the comments about DRAWING FROM THE COWL are from those who have not yet explored the low and high pressure area at the base of the windshield and cowl . If they had then I am sure they would be stating something else. If you do get the ALTA or M 7 or for that matter any CAI system dump there filter and get a k&N. Again to save future rebuts please check the filtration and flow rating before making comments to this. After talking with manufactures about there choice in filter it ends up a cost effective for consumer and there profit that makes there decision on filters. Not necessarily the optimum performing filter. For all those who like to experiment to test what I have suggested. Tape several pieces of ribbon along the windshield in different areas. Go for a drive watch and learn !!

 

+1

 

I've been tossing around the k&n idea for a while. I think i'll give it a shot.

i do have a question though. From what I've seen (and only from the ribbon test) the cowl does provide air at idle and 0-15 mph.
1) Is this amount sufficient to help pulling away from a stop.
2) Does a fan actually create enough airflow to overcome the high pressure of this area at speed?

 

To be fair, I do own an MC- I have a K&N and love it. Re-usable and cleanable filter is great.

But, I do look at and research all MC and MCS parts. . . for fun. . . and I would go with the Webb SportBox- No offense to any other vendor's products, but this thing is shweet.


http://store.webbmotorsports.com/ind...products_id=15

 

OK, Nitrominis, do share. Do not make me go tape ribbons all over my car just because you want to be obtuse or selfish with info - SPILL!

 

I have the Alta Intake with the box top. I love how it looks and how it sounds. theres pics of it in my gallery as Altas website doesn't show it all installed with the top.... I have not complaints. Webb and M7's are cool looking I can't imagine that theres a major difference between any of them. Outmotoring.com recomended the Alta over the other intakes it carried when I inquired.

 

Nice that someone actually tries home tests out
1) I can not draw on the post however in text: The air that moves across the S hood at speed velocities below 30 MPH with 0 wind is only pulled from the demand capacity of the engine with only a few CAI systems.Most do not even do that. Above approx 30 MPH 0 wind the pressure at the cowl vent does not allow good air flow and in most cases is highly turbulent. So the air is pulled from other sources generally the engine compartment which is as we know heated air. There are other variables to CAI system for intake air.
2) The fan I use pulls in at a zero pressure area 450 CFM. As I have yet to be able to monitor the reduction at 100 MPH plus. I can tell you that at those speeds using the ribbon method to check intake air pull when the fan is actuated the ribbon instantly pulled into the vent. And because we now have chill factor at those speeds the incoming air is generally cooler then the ambient by approx 8-15 degrees.

So here is a little fun thought: All of those really nice designed CAI with silver metal and tops, I call them the MINI air heaters . There is a reason why the Space shuttle is white on top and black on the bottom ! But they sure look good under the hood.

 

Ok, now if the CAI is totally enclosed, with a top, how does the heated air from the engine compartment get into the box? My Alta only brings in air from the factory scoop or the cowl, with the part of the CAI being at air heater, you sure you don't work for Dinan, because thats what they push . Yes they do get very hot, as does everything else does under the hood when you stop, but I have popped the bonnet right after stopping and the CAI was not much hotter than ambient temps. Appreciate your input here, and would like to see this fan setup that you have .

 

MaxMini81

Very nice looking MINI. Someone is helping you in the right direction for parts. I see many very good parts there. All look very functional. I know because it looks very similar to my engine compartment.


DixonL2

Haha, I like your response. In the past I have avoided posting as SID will tell you because I get hit with to many that wants to rebut things I say. I guess doing R & D do not work as good as hearing somewhere I was told that...bla bla

As I have also tried to help many venders over the years improve there products it is not always easy. And I NEVER want to be labeled as a VENDER BASHER. I love all the Vender. They are for the most part as good as they are told by whom they get some products manufactured from how good it is. So it is not always there fault.

Here is the thread I post on MMMC if you would like to see my MINI
http://www.michiganmini.org/forum/in...p?topic=1909.0

And I would be more then happy to share my toys....

 

Well Dinan is very close to me and as we both design MINI parts need I say more.
Also invest in an inexpensive thermal gun like RAYTEK MINI TEMP. I carry it with me all the time for this very arguement. They are about 70 bucks. Then come back and talk to me about temps. Really I think this would be a very usefull tool for you and many who want to see what is going on tempature wise on your MINI. It is also a fun toy for other things to... dogs, cats,food,people...etc...!!!!!

 

Have 1 .

 

/\ /\ /\ Whew, I don't know that the smileys can stand up to this level of sarcasm. . . :impatient
||||||
Randy's post regarding the Webb SportBox-

I don't know that any other intakes have that available.

 

[quote=Nitrominis;1681146]Nice that someone actually tries home tests out
1) I can not draw on the post however in text: The air that moves across the S hood at speed velocities below 30 MPH with 0 wind is only pulled from the demand capacity of the engine with only a few CAI systems.Most do not even do that. Above approx 30 MPH 0 wind the pressure at the cowl vent does not allow good air flow and in most cases is highly turbulent. So the air is pulled from other sources generally the engine compartment which is as we know heated air. There are other variables to CAI system for intake air.
2) The fan I use pulls in at a zero pressure area 450 CFM. As I have yet to be able to monitor the reduction at 100 MPH plus. I can tell you that at those speeds using the ribbon method to check intake air pull when the fan is actuated the ribbon instantly pulled into the vent. And because we now have chill factor at those speeds the incoming air is generally cooler then the ambient by approx 8-15 degrees.

[quote]

You seemed to have forgotten the inlet in the grill. I have done and seen tests of the air pressures in the intake box and have seen absoulutely NO low pressures at any speed.

And K&N (or any pleated filter) does not perform as well as foam filters do over the service life of the filter. They will perform well clean, but do not flow as well as a foam one will when dirty.

 

[quote=ScottinBend;1681341][quote=Nitrominis;1681146]Nice that someone actually tries home tests out
1) I can not draw on the post however in text: The air that moves across the S hood at speed velocities below 30 MPH with 0 wind is only pulled from the demand capacity of the engine with only a few CAI systems.Most do not even do that. Above approx 30 MPH 0 wind the pressure at the cowl vent does not allow good air flow and in most cases is highly turbulent. So the air is pulled from other sources generally the engine compartment which is as we know heated air. There are other variables to CAI system for intake air.
2) The fan I use pulls in at a zero pressure area 450 CFM. As I have yet to be able to monitor the reduction at 100 MPH plus. I can tell you that at those speeds using the ribbon method to check intake air pull when the fan is actuated the ribbon instantly pulled into the vent. And because we now have chill factor at those speeds the incoming air is generally cooler then the ambient by approx 8-15 degrees.

Well on the inlet by the grill......no I didn't forget and that is another story. Simply put it is now used to help cool the T/B a bit.
As for the foam filters....what can I say I would send this thread to K & N and let them explain your thoughts on that ? !!
Best thing I can say is just keep going with what you have.
I only do this for a living so I should listen to you guys ? Thanks for the great comments.

 

I like to find out what's going on *inside* my MINI, not outside it. Not that there's no correlation, but it's non-linear. All 5 of my temperature instruments measure air temps inside sections of the intake path, not the outside. Of course, I have a Raytek just for comparison purposes, hence my comment about non-linearities.
btw, how do you measure the wind-chill factor you claim for your CAI/fan system?

 

I would like to know this as well.

 

I'm not sure I understand this statement. Are you saying that the Alta best performing CAI?

Best sounding CAI maybe, but best performing...?

 

NitrosMINIs: Wow I have no idea what I did to irritate you! But just one quick point. Our choice in filter is for many reasons. Cost is NOT one of them. The mfring cost of Foam Dual Stage is FAR in excess of the K&N style. So PLEASE dont' try to incinuate that here. I was instrumental in the choice of foam. The foam has been long regarded my the JDM tuners and off-road clients alike as being the best choice. The foam allows dirt to be trapped in different levels, vs. the single layer of a K&N pleats are still single layer. This allows more area for clean filtered air to reach the motor. Foam also protects your expensive S/C and motor from much finer particulates than K&N style.

Now from a strictly HP basis a clean K&N will outperform a foam filter. This is because the single layer allows more air (and dirt) to enter the engine. However, this improvement is quickly dissolved once the K&N gets about 1000 miles on it. Then the foam will continue to outperform the K&N until about 7500 miles or until the K&N is cleaned. This is a HUGE reason why I pushed for the foam in our systems. Cleaner air, more HP, less cleaning!

So the ALTA makes more HP than nearly all other systems even with a more restictive filter. So obviously we were able to add HP in other ways and still protect your engine better than the competition.

Sorry if this seems like ranting. Just trying to set the record straight.

Thanks folks!

 

Tell me about it. I am appalled at some of the part costs in the MINI scene. It's probally a volume vs pricing issue.

I'd love to see someone like HKS, AEM or DC Sports get ivolved in MINIs. They all make awesome parts at more than reasonalble prices.

 

It's volume - check the sales figures on something like a Mustang or Civic, vs. the MC/MCS. Even figuring in that a higher %age of MCS owners are enthusiasts and likely have a higher average income, our market is dinky. Unfortunately that higher average income thing works against us twice - and the Vendors know it due to the higher price for our cars, and higher resale value - so they can charge more.

 

Good point. Still over $600 for a cat back exhaust is a rip off no matter how you look at it.

 

I agree. Its frickin piping for godsake. I mean its the stuff that we use to get rid of the waste of our cars. Unfortunately its an important part of tuning so you know...we gotta shell it out sometime or another. Thats why I went for an eBay exhaust!

 

Adam I think if you read what I wrote I was PROMOTING the ALTA. However the K & N thing....really they constantly put up the filter challenge with very few takers. You know this very well. The argument is varied and you and K & N can talk about that.
Also I have ALTA IC modified, ALTA end links modified,ALTA ALTA ALTA etc...on my MINI and recommend most ALTA products.
So thank you for your support Adam ??
As for monitoring systems , ( chill factor temp.) and devises, I use Aerotechnology combining it with in Automotive technology to find many useful equipment for shared values to each. I feel if I had been received a little better then another street theorist I might have been a bit more receptive to sharing the more helpful and useful information. So thanks again for the warm response.
Good luck with your MINIs. I do truly mean that.
See you guys at the track!
I won't bother you anymore.

 

You're welcome.
May be if you showed up with some actual data to back up your claims, you would have been received differently.
I've seen the pics of your engine compartment, looks like a lot of bling-bling going on there.

 

nitro
welcome to NAM
don't let the few drive someone with some actual knowledge off the board. I think you see why I don't post a bunch of tech stuff anymore as you have guys making 180hp trying to tell you how to do it better yet don't. I for one would love to talk. call me

jan