Okay so this is going to be my first winter with a manual transmission. And I'm a bit nervous. I don't have a good track record with automatics in the winter season.

Does anyone have any pointers on how to handle slippery conditions, sliding, shifting in heavy snow, and how does a MINI handle with the low scoop on the front? I live in Northern Indiana with lots of "Lake Effect" snow.

HELP winters a coming fast!!

 

Snow tires, easy on and off the gas, and you'll find more control with a manual transmission because you get to choose the gear instead of being subject to a computer that doesn't really know that you need to be in second instead of shifting to third and risking spinning the tires.

The MINI does well in the snow, but it will whip around on you're not careful.

mb

 

Driving in the snow/ice is probably a bit easier w/manual than driving automatics IMHO. You control the wheel spin much easier. When driving in bad conditions, I always turn of the radio and "listen" to what the car is doing, especially when starting/stopping. Nowadays with DSC and anti lock brakes, it's almost taken all the challenge out of it.
I haven't driven the MINI in the winter yet, but really expect it to do pretty well. I haven't invested in snow tires yet. I have driven some pretty bad company cars (Taurus, Grand Prix) in some pretty horrific snow storms and have never had a problem as long as I think a little ahead of time and stay away from the idiots.
As far as driving in "deep" snow, I wouldn't suggest driving in anything over 5" or so without putting a plow on the front of it.
I have driven standard cars in 10-15" depths and the snow winds up in the engine compartment and can stop the engine with wet wires.

 

Thanks guys. WOW 5" you say? i'm going to be calling into work a lot! good thing i'm moving into the city next weekend. they take a while to get to my road where i am now.

 

Actually, CGCOOPER01, depending on how wet the snow is, the MINI can handle more than 5". It's a blast driving through 7 or 8 of real light, crisp fresh snow and having the snow shoot up and over the car.

By the way, ROYAL4MAC, I'm just down the road is Springfield, and you're going to need snows. The original run flats have about as much traction as a hockey puck in wet snow.

 

Another thought. Check this out:
http://www.mini.ca/en/More_MINI/Wint...I/default.aspx

 

Snow tires make a huge difference.

The big thing is to remember that everything is going to take longer. You need to leave more room between you and the people around you, and do everything more slowly.

You can drive a MINI through a fair amount of unplowed snow. When you get to the point where the snow is flowing up over the hood and onto the windshield, you're in trouble for a few reasons. First, you cannot see. Second, when you stop you run a risk of having enough snow under the body of the car that the wheels will basically be up in the air and you won't be able to get moving again. How much snow is needed to cause this depends on a lot of things, like how dense the snow is. The one time I had this happen was my unplowed apartment access road with well over a foot of snow on it. But, if there's that much snow you probably should just stay home. :D

 

In the words of the great Charles De Mar

"Go that way really fast. If something gets in your way, turn."




and who can resist

"Do you realize the street value of this mountain?"

 

Wow, do our Canadian fellow Motorers really autocross in heavy snow with blue on white cones? I'm in!

SCCA friends in the Buffalo/Rochester area say MINIs do great in the snow. 5 inches of heavy snow is a good concern point.

Blowing lake effect snow (on clear roads) took out my Outback's headlights on one trip back from Buffalo to Oswego. Thank god for fog lights.

Easy on the gas and the brakes. Look well ahead. Carry emergency gear. But, first "have fun" in an open icy parking lot checking out your traction.

Of course you know to get a good set of winter tires/wheels. That makes a lot of difference.

And, as said, stay away from the idiots. Note that when snow flys, there seems to more out than snow flakes.

 

i have all season run flats right now... is that not good enough? do i still need to swap them for WINTER tires? i hope not, these were $900.

 

Coupla things not mentioned so far:

1) Snow tires are TONS better than even the best new all-seasons in snow. Get some winter tires (a package for minis is under $600 at Tirerack.com, also located in South Bend, or check the tires classifieds I've seen several GOOD sets come up there). Seriously - there's no better investment you can make in winter. Yes, they ARE that good.

Compare the cost of snow tires to the cost of your insurance deductible and the hassle of towing, repairing, etc.

2) Drive like there's a raw egg between you and EVERY conrol in the car. Think "gen-tle". Leave lots of space. Don't slip the clutch too much though, just enough for a gentle start. Often you will want to ease off the clutch and barely (if at all) on the gas - you want to maintain that slim amount of traction you have.

2) a) Momentum: Not that you HAVE hills in your part of the world, but momentum can be your friend. Use it wisely. Don't stop on uphills if you can avoid it! Conserve momentum.
2) b) Stop signs and intersections: Before the salt trucks get out, these get ICY - quickly. Be aware.

3) Use the HIGHEST gear you can for the conditions. Don't "lug" the engine, but you don't want torque breaking your traction. Upshift (to a higher numbered gear) far sooner than you ordinarily would. Lower gears give more torque, which is great for acceleration on dry pavement but can spin the tires uselessly on low-traction surfaces. Once you get better with the snow you can experiment.

4) Clutch in or neutral when braking, almost always. Don't downshift no matter HOW much it makes you sound like Colin McRae (rally driver). This doesn't let the engine interfere with front/rear brake bias.

5) As soon as snow falls, drive carefully to a deserted parking lot with no light poles or potholes (scout it out beforehand). Drive the car, really DRIVE it, to see what it'll do and how it feels. Hit the brakes HARD to see how the ABS feels, then hit the brakes gently and see if you can tell when one, two, or more tires are starting to "lock" (brake pulsations). Leave lots of space.

6) With snows on, try not to laugh too hard at the SUVs on bald all-seasons thinking they cna go anywhere. You have as many tires with brakes and steering as they do. 4WD just allows a car to get moving in conditions where (arguably) one shouldn't be driving. It doesn't help stop or brake, and the additional weight usually hurts stopping and braking.

7) When it's cold, the rubber in your tires gets harder. Even on dry pavement, you'll have reduced traction. Your car will also make more noises since everything's stiff. Go easy, at least until things are warmed up.

8) Keep an emergency kit in your car. Sleeping bag or blanket, jacket, gloves, a little non-perishable food, and a small bottle or two of water, maybe a small folding shovel. I've known people in New JERSEY (fer cryin out loud!) who've been trapped by snow/ice storms overnight.

I think that's about it...

Good luck!

 

i have been driving on the snowy roads in Cleveland for 14 years and have never used snow tires..
i have driven on the all season radials and am able to say
use a little common sense.. slow down ...don't tail gate...and dont try to rocket off from a standing stop.. you should be fine

 

The left side of my brain is frozen.

 

I used to drive a Classic 1959 Morris Mini Minor with 520x10" wheels/tires. I was living in northeastern Ohio and regularly went thru 5-7" slushy snows with no problems. The only time I ever got stuck was when I wanted to see if the instructions for getting out of a snowdrift were accurate...they were, and awayyyyyyyyyyy I went.

That said, even though the new MINI is larger and heavier, it still has front wheel drive. Skinny OEM wheels and tires [like the 15x175x65] should work fine as long as you use some common sense. However, a Wintertime emergency kit is always a nice item to pack...just in case. Better safe than sorry, right?

 

wow, thanks guys. great information. i will visit a parking lot after our first snow to test things out, good idea. i think i'll print your post DixonL2 and keep it in my glove box. LOL

thanks...

 

With respect, boy did you just nail that!

That should be a sticky.

I wonder how many folks actually know where the parking lot is that you mention in point (5), and go and practice. I find it gets harder to find a safe place, but I did discover one last year that still works.

A theatre closed, and as it is located at the end of an access road there is little or no traffic in the area. I use it just before sunrise, and have never been noticed.

I believe that there is nothing more effective than practice to take the fear and uncertainty out of low traction driving. Since most slipping and sliding is around town, speed is not that important to practice. Knowing from experience what Gollum will do when breaking traction on either axle keeps my a lot calmer up here in new England.

I sure agree to that there one one heck of a difference between Blizzaks and dual-use tires when there is really slush or snow. I run Pirelli P Zero Nero at the moment, but do NOT go out in snowstorms except in emergency.

Of course with 1.75" clearance at the base of the chin spoiler, I'd be PLOWING if I did...

 

it snowed last night!!!! AAAAAAAAAA i'm not ready

 

always wanted to drive mine in the snow!

 

Do all the above and you'll be fine.

We had a rare blizzard here in Indy last december, and I think we got 7" in a couple of hours. Too fast for the plows to handle. I have the Goodyear runflats on my car, and there was easily 4-5" on the interstate when I finally made it onto I-65 to go home. Big ruts from semis and SUVs. No problems at all. Just take your time, realize that the Soccer Mom in her Range Rover thinks she is exempt from the laws of physics and give her plenty of room to slide around (and maybe flip over -- it always amazes me when we have storms like this around here, the vehicles you see on their roof in a ditch are almost always 4x4 trucks or SUVs...) Having the manual is an advantage too, and listen to the car while you are driving. Turn off the radio, etc - you'll need to really be paying attention to everything going on around you. The yahoos who drive like jerkoffs when it is sunny and dry will still try to drive +20 over the posted speed limit and tailgate.

But I have had proper winter tires on a previous car and a previous poster is correct - nothing will beat having those. I personally recommend Bridgestone Blizzaks...

 

Here's a great artical on this there is no chart and the links don't work but good info none the less:


from Edmunds.com
Braking Distances



[FONT=Arial, Geneva][SIZE=2]by Scott Memmer[/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][FONT=Arial, Geneva] See more Driving articles from Edmunds[/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][FONT=Arial, Geneva] [/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][FONT=Arial, Geneva]Although we at Edmunds.com spend a lot of time writing about rpm, torque, zero-to-60 acceleration, high-speed cornering, etc., nothing is more important than your car's ability to stop itself. Knowing a little something about braking distances -- i.e., how much ground a vehicle covers at a given speed, how much time it takes to stop that vehicle at that speed -- can make for safer and more enjoyable driving. [/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][FONT=Arial, Geneva] [/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][FONT=Arial, Geneva]Let's start with the basics. A vehicle traveling at 60 mph covers 88 feet per second. But stopping that vehicle takes over four-and-a-half seconds and covers a distance of 271 feet (provided your brakes and tires are in fair working condition). Look at the chart on the right (thanks to Continental-Teves for the use of their chart). Note that researchers include within the stopping distance several factors other than braking. These factors -- perception time and reaction time -- add considerable distance to stopping your car. Let's take a look. [/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][FONT=Arial, Geneva] [/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][FONT=Arial, Geneva]Perception time is the average amount of time it takes a driver to perceive a braking event. Researchers estimate this time at three-quarters of a second. Therefore, at 60 mph, your car will have traveled 66 feet before you're even aware that you need to slow down. And there's more. Once your brain has recognized the need to brake, it still takes another three-quarters of a second to initiate a braking action (essentially, to move your foot from the gas pedal to the brake pedal). Another 66 feet has now slid beneath under your wheels. All told then, at 60 mph, 132 feet has elapsed before the vehicle begins to slow. [/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][FONT=Arial, Geneva] [/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][FONT=Arial, Geneva]But remember old Isaac Newton's First Law of Motion: an object in motion tends to remain in motion. Think of Michael Jordan swooping toward the hoop, unstoppable, a blur of speed, and this will perhaps give you a more graphic illustration of Sir Isaac's first principle. Automobiles, like Jordan, tend to resist stopping. The faster they travel, the more they resist. Also, the more mass they carry, the harder they resist. Think Shaquille O'Neal vs. Jordan (although at least M.J. always made his free throws). [/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][FONT=Arial, Geneva] [/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][FONT=Arial, Geneva]Back to our demo vehicle. At 60 mph, it takes your car another 138 feet to come to a complete stop. This encompasses approximately 3.1 seconds. So from the time you perceived a braking situation until the time your car came to a complete stop, a total of 4.6 seconds elapsed, during which time you car traveled -- it bears repeating -- over 270 feet. To give you an idea, that's almost the length of a football field. [/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][FONT=Arial, Geneva] [/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][FONT=Arial, Geneva]Of course the faster you go, the more time and distance it takes to stop. For example, at 70 mph, perception and reaction distance equals 154 feet, and braking distance equals 188 feet, for a total of 342 feet (5.2 seconds). And we won't even talk about 80 mph and above, since our readers are law-abiding citizens who never break the speed laws. It wouldn't interest you to know, for instance, that at 80 mph it takes over 422 feet (5.7 seconds) to bring your vehicle to a halt, and at 90 mph more than 509 feet (6.2 seconds) -- nearly a tenth of a mile. [/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][FONT=Arial, Geneva] [/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][FONT=Arial, Geneva]There are other factors as well. Road conditions, for one. Different road surfaces present varied traction opportunities to the tires. The above computations were figured on dry pavement, for which we used an average braking rate (a combination of coefficient of friction and deceleration) of .870 g. But consider wet pavement. When inclement conditions present themselves, the braking rate drops considerably -- and the braking distance grows exponentially. On wet pavement, for example, the braking rate drops from .870 g to .600 g. At 60 mph, total elapsed braking time increases from 4.6 seconds to 6.1 seconds, and total braking distance shoots up from 271 feet to 333 feet. And it gets worse. In snowy conditions, even with snow tires (braking rate .300 g), total stopping time jumps to 10.6 seconds and 533 feet. As a basis of comparison, this is roughly the same distance -- actually, a little further -- as the same vehicle coming to a complete stop from 90 mph on dry pavement, an effective doubling of the braking distance. Let us repeat that: a 100 percent increase. [/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][FONT=Arial, Geneva] [/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][FONT=Arial, Geneva]So what do we do with all these numbers? Since there's nothing we can do about the weather, why even talk about it? Well, we may not be able to do anything about the weather, but we can do something about the way we drive in it. Arming ourselves with knowledge can prevent the loss of property and even human life. [/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][FONT=Arial, Geneva] [/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][FONT=Arial, Geneva]Today's cars can get up and run in a hurry, but we still can't do anything about the surface they travel on. Even at regular highway speeds, the rate of velocity on today's highways is staggering. [/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][FONT=Arial, Geneva] [/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][FONT=Arial, Geneva]We recently experienced a graphic demonstration of this issue, when we stopped to help a stranded motorist on a local freeway. The cars and trucks whizzed by at an alarming rate, oblivious to our presence. One tick of the wheel and we'd be pancake batter. If you have the "opportunity" to get stranded on a nearby expressway, or you get pulled over to have a little tête-à-tête with the local gendarme, look around and take note of the incredible rush around you. This is America on the move -- and in a big hurry. Then file that data away for a rainy day -- but somewhere close, an easily retrievable file with a large icon. When you need it, click on it and pull it back onto the screen of your memory. Use it to remind yourself to keep as much distance as possible between yourself and the other vehicles on the road, particularly in bad weather. [/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][FONT=Arial, Geneva] [/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][FONT=Arial, Geneva]If you drive an SUV, be especially cognizant of your ground speed in bad weather. Just because you're higher off the road than everyone else doesn't mean jack; it only means you'll have a better view of the passing countryside as you slam sideways into a snowbank. And 4-wheel-drive counts for even less. Remember this law: That which makes you go won't make you stop. If you drive a 4-wheeler, you're not immune to the laws of physics, in fact you're a bit more susceptible (if for no other reason than your over-confidence). So you can shove your knobbies through the fluff stuff. Big deal. That doesn't improve your drag coefficient when it comes time to stopping. Whether you drive a tricycle or an Excursion, braking distances apply. Immutably. Sorry, we don't write 'em, we just report 'em. Repeat: four-wheel-drive does not help you stop. ABS does that. We're tired of seeing you guys spun around on the side of the road facing the wrong way. Slow down before you hurt somebody. [/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][FONT=Arial, Geneva] [/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][FONT=Arial, Geneva]The California Department of Motor Vehicles recommends keeping a "space cushion" around your vehicle at all times. They break it down this way:

• Keep a cushion ahead.
• Keep a cushion to the side.
• Keep a cushion behind.

Although this last may be difficult to accomplish, especially in heavy commuter traffic where everyone is darting in and out, we suggest following these guidelines as nearly as possible. The DMV also recommends a "3-second rule" in regulating following distance. We find this useful. The DMV writes: "When the vehicle ahead of you passes a certain point, such as a sign, count 'one-thousand-one, one-thousand-two, one -thousand-three.' This takes about 3 seconds. If you pass the same point before you finish counting, you are following too closely." They also suggest a "4 second or more cushion" in inclement weather. [/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][FONT=Arial, Geneva] [/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=2][FONT=Arial, Geneva]There are several other key factors to successfully stopping your car, such as ABS and the condition of your tires. For more information on these subjects, please click on the following Edmunds.com links:

[SIZE=2][FONT=Arial, Geneva]Brakes: Drum vs. Disc

[SIZE=2][FONT=Arial, Geneva]Fixing Antilock Brakes

We'd also like to thank Continental-Tevis, a braking manufacturer out of Detroit, for use of the enclosed braking distance chart. [/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][FONT=Arial, Geneva] [/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][FONT=Arial, Geneva]One last thing. In doing research for this story, we contacted the California Highway Patrol for their take on braking distances. Our editorial staff got a chuckle out of the chart they sent us, which was probably drawn up around the time Erik Estrada was tooling around on a Moto Guzzi, impersonating an officer. We're not sure what car they used to collect their data, but we're betting it's the '63 Plymouth wagon one of our editors used to drive. [/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][FONT=Arial, Geneva]C'mon CHP -- we've got things like disc brakes and steel-belted radials now. Our cars no longer have hand cranks sticking out the front grill. Can't you give us a chart from this millennium? [/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][FONT=Arial, Geneva] [/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][FONT=Arial, Geneva]Thanks for surfing Edmunds.com. Oh, and one last thing: if you can count the freckles on the hand of the driver in front of you, you're probably following too close. [/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][FONT=Arial, Geneva] [/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][FONT=Arial, Geneva]© 2001 Edmunds.com, Inc. [/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][FONT=Arial, Geneva][/SIZE][/FONT]

 

One topic not covered yet - understeer. You will notice that, like nearly all front wheel drive cars, the MINI will understeer (plow out, not turn into the corner). Best way to deal with it is to lift off the throttle and then feather it back in. A discretionary use of the hand brake can also get you around the bend, but I would advise not trying it until you have had lots of practice - too much handbrake and you will be spinning around and around. Fun in a vacant car park, not so much fun in traffic!

 

I love My STUDS, Stop & Go Now!!!!

 

I'm preparing for the snow that is getting ready to hit central jersey right now, these are helpful!

 

k