Writeup of HPDE on MSR 1.3 10/6/07
Writeup of HPDE on MSR 1.3 10/6/07
It started on a Saturday night with an email. I had just finished swapping between worn out street tires I was running on track to some used R Comps after a frustrating but very educational day at the track when I received an email from an owner of Apex Driving Academy. The email extended an invitation to attend an upcoming event with them, in fact the very next weekend if I wanted. For those keeping score at home, that would be the 4th weekend in a row for an HPDE in North Texas. The email was received in the middle of the 3rd one. That night a commitment could not be made. I needed to see how the Mini and myself would fair on the Kuhmos and there was this issue with the brakes. I knew I had more then enough pad for another day, but was it enough for another event. Would I need new pads and could I get them quick enough. There was also the matter of rotor thickness, the slots were worn away, was it also time for a new set. New the rotors are 0.81 inches, checking with Todd of TCE he recommended replacing at 10-15% worn or between 0.72 and 0.67 inches.
The next day went very well with the tires, that took them out of the equation. Went to the shop at the track to see if they had pads for the Dynalite calipers. While they did not have the exact pad shape required what they did have was a pad that not only had holes for the Dynalites but also has a hole for a center bridge bolt. Tracing the backing plate of a current pad they were able to cut down the new pads backing plate to match. The new pad is also a new to me compound. I've been happy with the Wilwood Poly B's, these new pads are Performance Friction 97's. With these in hand I had no worries on the pad front. Rotor thickness is 0.77, well before replacement is needed.
On last item might have put the kabash on the date, my brother and wife were hosting an Oktoberfest gathering the same night. I was not sure if I was needed to help prepare. Checking with him I needed to be on hand late early in the evening to help with the finishing touches. I signed up for the date but would have to leave early.
In North Texas we are lucky to have multiple entities that host HPDE's. 2 Marque Clubs and 2 For Profit vie for our Track Day dollars. Most of them are 2 day events with the traditional 5 groups with 4 25 min sessions each leading to a fair amount of downtime between sessions. Apex takes a different approach with 4 groups receiving 6 20 min sessions each. Apex also hosts one day events while the others are usually 2 days.
Cost wise the 2 day events average about $250 or $1.25 a minute. The one day worked out to be a little more expensive at $1.60 minute. However Apex does things a little differently. The other groups clear the track and then let the next group out. With Apex, while one group is exiting, the next group is filing out. Not only is that more efficient, when tracking actual on track at speed time the sessions are very close to the same length. Close enough in fact that the real time running cost are within pennies per minute of each other.
Received my information from Apex, I would be running in the Advanced group. Funny how different groups place drivers. With PCA I was slotted to be in their most advanced group but looking over the list of cars I’d be on track with I asked to moved down. A good thing as the Mini would have been a moving chicane with all the Cup cars. Their Advanced is very advanced, quite beyond my capabilities at this time. However BMW-CCA in GA had me in the same group where I was able to hold my own. The local BMW-CCA places me in their 2nd level intermediate group and the other local entity, Drivers Edge, placed me in the 1st level intermediate group. All of them consider me Solo worthy. Wednesday before the event I had the Mini Tech inspected, as usual there were no issues. Friday night I prepped the car, swapping tires and brake pads then packing the car. With the Drivers Meeting scheduled for 8.30 I was able to sleep in some. All the others groups have meetings at 7.30-8.00. I needed to burn off some excess fuel on the drive out to the track. I like to get as low as possible before filling with the 105 Octane juice. Driving out in 5th instead of 6th left me showing --- on the range setting of the Mini’s computer for the last 15 miles to the track. The weather was going to be iffy, there was a good chance of rain forecast and a few times I ran through a light misting during the 70 some mile trip to the track. Fall has yet to visit us in Texas, temps were going to be warm, mid to upper 80’s and very humid. Taking advantage of the covered tech shed I unloaded the Mini to prep for the day. Next to me pulled in a BMW M3 that I knew. We both tend to go to a lot of these. A Lotus Exige, Subaru STI and later another M3 all shared the same under cover paddock space. Interestingly enough, we 5 comprised the entire Advanced run group.
In the circle of people I know that attend DE’s, mostly Mini owners, Apex is at the bottom of their list of events to attend. No one says anything specific but there is innuendo that Apex events are not as well run as the others. Part of my mission for the day was to compare Apex to other events I’ve attended and give feedback to the organizers. With a very open mind I looked at many aspects. The Novice group looked to be full or close to it, with lots of Subaru’s and a mix of other cars. Intermediate also looked to be nearly full, again with a varied mix of vehicles. The drivers meeting was the same basic drivers meetings I’ve been to time and time again. Safety was emphasized, the flags were gone over as well as the general layout of the day. Looking over the schedule I saw it was packed tight, not much wiggle room. I also noted that after each session on track there was a classroom session. Even the advanced group has classroom sessions scheduled. I was curious as to how those would pan out. The advanced group were all offered the use of a Performance Box for a session, 2 of the drivers already had one.
We would be running the 1.3 mile configuration. I’ve yet to run this; the track has a 1.7 and 1.3 that can be combined for a 3.1 mile course. The 1.7 was open for MSR members and for a Viper Club event. My first session was short, intentionally. The new pads needed to be bedded and I wanted to get a feel for the 1.3. Driving at about ¾ speed I stayed out until the pedal got a little soft from brake fade. Upon exiting the track the starter on grid stopped me and asked if everything was OK. This is the first time I’ve come in early and been asked if all was alright. To me that’s a good thing. During the classroom session the chief instructor also asked if all was OK, he said he saw me come in early and wanted to check why. Classroom went well; we were asked if we had questions. These specific items were then discussed. I asked for an instructor to ride with me during the 2nd session. Being new to R comps I was looking for pointers.
With there being only the 4 groups the 2nd on track session was soon upon us. The chief instructor strapped in with me and off we went. He sat quietly for a few laps watching. His comments were that mostly I had the line down but there were a few places where if I moved over a little I could carry more speed, brake later and harder then I’d be better set up for the next section. I worked on this and about ½ ways into the session a light rain started falling. They dry line for the most part stayed dry but in a few places you could really fell grip levels starting to fade away. My brake pedal also softened some late in the session. This was a different pad compound then I was running before. For the most part they felt fine, this softness was a little disconcerting. Our classroom session was spent mostly discussing the wet line and the search for grip. That chased the rain away for the rest of the day. Most of us wanted to see it rain some more. Our desire was not exactly altruistic with the Vipers running on the older, more polished 1.7 configuration we figured it would prove to be entertaining. Worried about the brakes I went over the shop and we talked about possible causes. The 1.3 has less space between hard braking areas to cool the brakes, maybe they overheated. Another possibility was they were not fully bedded or yet another possibility was I needed to bleed them and get some fresher fluid out in the calipers. We left it with a wait and see how the next session went.
Session 3 was soon at hand and my turn to run with the Performance Box. Very quick and easy to install. The mount has 3 large suction cups and for power the cig lighter is used for power. This session went very well. The brakes were not an issue, the pedal stayed firm the entire time. I worked on trying some different lines in bowl area. I found that turning in a little earlier and making a double apex of the sweeper I was able to get back on the throttle sooner and carry more speed to the hairpin. Looking over the data from the Performance Box in the classroom later you could see the exact line and over lay it with other laps. What an eye opener! I’ve requested the data be emailed to me. Once I have it I intend on posting with screen caps and my observations.
Session 4 was to be my last for the day since I needed to leave early. I worked on breaking later. I know I’ve been giving up time being overly cautious with the brakes. A few times when I thought a corner entry was overcooked I’ve been surprised with the margin left on the table. Picking only corners with loads of safe runoff room I tried to go deeper and deeper. There is still more out there.
All in all it was another great track day. I intend on attending the next Apex event on Oct 20th. I’m actually going to take a week off.
The next day went very well with the tires, that took them out of the equation. Went to the shop at the track to see if they had pads for the Dynalite calipers. While they did not have the exact pad shape required what they did have was a pad that not only had holes for the Dynalites but also has a hole for a center bridge bolt. Tracing the backing plate of a current pad they were able to cut down the new pads backing plate to match. The new pad is also a new to me compound. I've been happy with the Wilwood Poly B's, these new pads are Performance Friction 97's. With these in hand I had no worries on the pad front. Rotor thickness is 0.77, well before replacement is needed.
On last item might have put the kabash on the date, my brother and wife were hosting an Oktoberfest gathering the same night. I was not sure if I was needed to help prepare. Checking with him I needed to be on hand late early in the evening to help with the finishing touches. I signed up for the date but would have to leave early.
In North Texas we are lucky to have multiple entities that host HPDE's. 2 Marque Clubs and 2 For Profit vie for our Track Day dollars. Most of them are 2 day events with the traditional 5 groups with 4 25 min sessions each leading to a fair amount of downtime between sessions. Apex takes a different approach with 4 groups receiving 6 20 min sessions each. Apex also hosts one day events while the others are usually 2 days.
Cost wise the 2 day events average about $250 or $1.25 a minute. The one day worked out to be a little more expensive at $1.60 minute. However Apex does things a little differently. The other groups clear the track and then let the next group out. With Apex, while one group is exiting, the next group is filing out. Not only is that more efficient, when tracking actual on track at speed time the sessions are very close to the same length. Close enough in fact that the real time running cost are within pennies per minute of each other.
Received my information from Apex, I would be running in the Advanced group. Funny how different groups place drivers. With PCA I was slotted to be in their most advanced group but looking over the list of cars I’d be on track with I asked to moved down. A good thing as the Mini would have been a moving chicane with all the Cup cars. Their Advanced is very advanced, quite beyond my capabilities at this time. However BMW-CCA in GA had me in the same group where I was able to hold my own. The local BMW-CCA places me in their 2nd level intermediate group and the other local entity, Drivers Edge, placed me in the 1st level intermediate group. All of them consider me Solo worthy. Wednesday before the event I had the Mini Tech inspected, as usual there were no issues. Friday night I prepped the car, swapping tires and brake pads then packing the car. With the Drivers Meeting scheduled for 8.30 I was able to sleep in some. All the others groups have meetings at 7.30-8.00. I needed to burn off some excess fuel on the drive out to the track. I like to get as low as possible before filling with the 105 Octane juice. Driving out in 5th instead of 6th left me showing --- on the range setting of the Mini’s computer for the last 15 miles to the track. The weather was going to be iffy, there was a good chance of rain forecast and a few times I ran through a light misting during the 70 some mile trip to the track. Fall has yet to visit us in Texas, temps were going to be warm, mid to upper 80’s and very humid. Taking advantage of the covered tech shed I unloaded the Mini to prep for the day. Next to me pulled in a BMW M3 that I knew. We both tend to go to a lot of these. A Lotus Exige, Subaru STI and later another M3 all shared the same under cover paddock space. Interestingly enough, we 5 comprised the entire Advanced run group.
In the circle of people I know that attend DE’s, mostly Mini owners, Apex is at the bottom of their list of events to attend. No one says anything specific but there is innuendo that Apex events are not as well run as the others. Part of my mission for the day was to compare Apex to other events I’ve attended and give feedback to the organizers. With a very open mind I looked at many aspects. The Novice group looked to be full or close to it, with lots of Subaru’s and a mix of other cars. Intermediate also looked to be nearly full, again with a varied mix of vehicles. The drivers meeting was the same basic drivers meetings I’ve been to time and time again. Safety was emphasized, the flags were gone over as well as the general layout of the day. Looking over the schedule I saw it was packed tight, not much wiggle room. I also noted that after each session on track there was a classroom session. Even the advanced group has classroom sessions scheduled. I was curious as to how those would pan out. The advanced group were all offered the use of a Performance Box for a session, 2 of the drivers already had one.
We would be running the 1.3 mile configuration. I’ve yet to run this; the track has a 1.7 and 1.3 that can be combined for a 3.1 mile course. The 1.7 was open for MSR members and for a Viper Club event. My first session was short, intentionally. The new pads needed to be bedded and I wanted to get a feel for the 1.3. Driving at about ¾ speed I stayed out until the pedal got a little soft from brake fade. Upon exiting the track the starter on grid stopped me and asked if everything was OK. This is the first time I’ve come in early and been asked if all was alright. To me that’s a good thing. During the classroom session the chief instructor also asked if all was OK, he said he saw me come in early and wanted to check why. Classroom went well; we were asked if we had questions. These specific items were then discussed. I asked for an instructor to ride with me during the 2nd session. Being new to R comps I was looking for pointers.
With there being only the 4 groups the 2nd on track session was soon upon us. The chief instructor strapped in with me and off we went. He sat quietly for a few laps watching. His comments were that mostly I had the line down but there were a few places where if I moved over a little I could carry more speed, brake later and harder then I’d be better set up for the next section. I worked on this and about ½ ways into the session a light rain started falling. They dry line for the most part stayed dry but in a few places you could really fell grip levels starting to fade away. My brake pedal also softened some late in the session. This was a different pad compound then I was running before. For the most part they felt fine, this softness was a little disconcerting. Our classroom session was spent mostly discussing the wet line and the search for grip. That chased the rain away for the rest of the day. Most of us wanted to see it rain some more. Our desire was not exactly altruistic with the Vipers running on the older, more polished 1.7 configuration we figured it would prove to be entertaining. Worried about the brakes I went over the shop and we talked about possible causes. The 1.3 has less space between hard braking areas to cool the brakes, maybe they overheated. Another possibility was they were not fully bedded or yet another possibility was I needed to bleed them and get some fresher fluid out in the calipers. We left it with a wait and see how the next session went.
Session 3 was soon at hand and my turn to run with the Performance Box. Very quick and easy to install. The mount has 3 large suction cups and for power the cig lighter is used for power. This session went very well. The brakes were not an issue, the pedal stayed firm the entire time. I worked on trying some different lines in bowl area. I found that turning in a little earlier and making a double apex of the sweeper I was able to get back on the throttle sooner and carry more speed to the hairpin. Looking over the data from the Performance Box in the classroom later you could see the exact line and over lay it with other laps. What an eye opener! I’ve requested the data be emailed to me. Once I have it I intend on posting with screen caps and my observations.
Session 4 was to be my last for the day since I needed to leave early. I worked on breaking later. I know I’ve been giving up time being overly cautious with the brakes. A few times when I thought a corner entry was overcooked I’ve been surprised with the margin left on the table. Picking only corners with loads of safe runoff room I tried to go deeper and deeper. There is still more out there.
All in all it was another great track day. I intend on attending the next Apex event on Oct 20th. I’m actually going to take a week off.
4th Gear
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 363
Likes: 0
From: Pauls Valley, Oklahoma
Another nice write-up. I'm going to meet you at a track one of these days since I'm in southern Oklahoma. I worked the vintage races at Hallett this past weekend. I'm really anxious to get back on the track after my only track day the weekend before last. I've got new wheels (SSR Type C 16x6.5) and non-runflats on the way.
I enjoy reading your posts.
I enjoy reading your posts.
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