Thanks for clearing that up Heather, you truly are a gem on this detailing forum. I am definately going to try the synthetic then topping with carnuba technique next time I detail my car. Can you recommend a carnuba that is good. I am going to use the Epic synthetic OF COURSE. Do you think P21 or the Sourveign, Mothers, etc.. Any info would be great. What about the zymol, would I have to strip everything down to apply that, that is what I have heard? Thanks, Peter

 

I really can't understand the desire to put carnauba over synthetics. I did this when I used Zaino before a carshow last year and it was not vast improvement if improvement at all. What it did do however was force me to use a different QD (carnauba based) since the Zaino QD is for synthetics not carnauba. I seriously doubt anyone could tell if you waxed over half your car with carnauba after doing Zaino or Epic. To each their own I guess, but I like to QD with Slick and I like using Hydro, both would need to be eliminated if carnauba was put over my Epic. You may still be able to use Slick over carnauba but definately not Hydro and you would have to strip the carnauba to put any more Epic on the car.
I think it is a waste, but get after it if you want.
I have a nearly new jar of P21S if anyone wants it.

 

is your car metallic or flat paint?

metallic ='s you see more going on with different waxes.

flat ='s gloss which epic does fine and dandy

 

See I disagree that carnaubas only make a difference on metallic colors. I am sure carnaubas make metallics look amazing but they are also known to make dark blues, blacks, reds, & deep yellows look extraordinary

 

Count me in

 

OK Brendan, I'll give it to you at MITM in August. I promise.

 

Ugh, I need to get in to CUBoulder so bad right now... Hopefully I will see you there.

 

Just let me know ... free P21S ... worth a drive ... skiing ... free wax ... DP ... mountains ... snow ... wax for free!

 

Ugh please stop. This forum is making the wait so much harder. I will be real bummed if I don't get it, but it's for a reason I suppose. If anyone out there knows anyone at Cu-Boulder, work you magic.

 

Although I think I will come out for MITM. I really wanted to come last year but I was only 1 month into the forum. A very very close family friend has a house in the Copper Village so I considered going. This year it looks like I will be there because I go to school there or to fill the void of going to school somewhere other than my first true love.

Sorry for the rant, I'm stressed and anxious.

 

Heck, that ain't no rant! I'll show you a rant ... No not right now.
Please do come out for MITM, it is so fun, and you'll get some free wax too!

 

I'll try. I promise

 

I use a caranuba I'm willing to bet none of you have heard of, and I can't say enough about it. http://www.hammerheadboatworks.com/

It's the waxing frenzy I've tried to great effect. It will leave only the slightest of haze in the trim if you're not careful, but it cleans out easier than anything I've tried. It goes on and off as easily as zaino in my experience. It smells great as well.

Apparently they use this wax on race boats to reduce the drag on the water, and it was also used by the U.S.A. Bobsledding team to reduce air drag. Maybe I should post this in the performance mods?

 

I'm not saying waxing frenzy isn't a good wax. Your Mini looks really good. But... I have read that liquid waxes touting they are carnauba do not have much carnauba in them because it is only possible to suspend small amounts of carnauba in liquid

 

Bama, its NOT how much carnauba is in the wax but the Quality of the carnauba

check out http://shop.malms.com/Qstore/Qstore....5&BACK=A0001A1

Malms has been selling liquid carnauba since 1979 direct to the public. In their FAQ

This wax contains more Carnauba than other waxes.

So what does that mean? The maker wants you to think...if it contains more Carnauba, it must do a better job. Actually, the quantity or percentage of Carnauba has absolutely nothing to do with the final results! It's not the quantity but the quality of Carnauba, the blend of different grades of waxes and the additional special and unique ingredients that makes for best shine and durability. Similar to many other types of products, the "more is better" approach doesn't always hold true.

Another example of the Fallacy of "more is better" is the making of tomato based spaghetti sauce. Some manufacturers claim their sauce contains a higher percentage of tomatoes than their competition. They imply that the more tomatoes the better the taste. We all know there are special spices and additional ingredients that add to and enhance the overall flavor. How tasty do you think that sauce would really be if it was made completely of tomatoes?

Don't be 'sucked-in' by wax advertising hype. Every manufacturer says their wax is the best...including us! When it comes to auto wax, comparing advertising claims between one manufacturer and another is virtually a waste of time. Always compare waxes for gloss, water-beading, depth of shine, durability and ease of application in side-by-side visual tests with your own eyes! That is the finest way to determine which product is best for your needs.

They have never made a paste wax until now. Their claim as to why not is the following ...

Since 1982 I've personally been experimenting with paste waxes. I've created hundreds and hundreds of Carnauba paste wax formulations and tested most other manufacturers brands. Some lasted longer but the gloss was not great, some were glossy but didn't last. Some had poor water beading. Some cause streaking. Some were hard to buff. Others easy to buff but they could not hide scratches sufficiently. Others very hard to apply.

Here are just some of the qualities that each formulation had to be tested for:

• Ease of wax application
• Ease of removal
• Drying time
• Paint color depth improvement
• Ability to fill and hide fine scratches and swirl marks
• Gloss improvement
• Durability and duration of last
• Symmetry and height of water beads
  

I haven't bought their paste wax cause its $125 but I do have a bottle of their liquid carnuaba and its just as good as Pinnacle Sourveign and a lot cheaper.

 

Chows I didn't say one was better than the other but only that if it is liquid it won't have much carnauba in it. It may have other fantastic things in it but not much carnauba. What does the quality of the carnauba matter anyway when there is hardly any present? But either way it really doesn't matter to me much as I am a P21S gal all the way & no one will ever convince me to spend over $100 on a tub or bottle of wax for my Mini

 

yeah, best of show wax has 24% carnauba and their paste has over 30%. liquids are limited in wax content. p21s might even have more carnauba in it, I duno. Most liquids have less than Griot's best of show from what I remember reading about a while ago.

sup bahamut!
hows ryu? *shoots fluffy white ball and 1000 handslaps you*

 

But that is the point Malms is trying to make. Its the quality of the carnuaba that matters, not the quantity. All wax is not the same. The best, I think, is the white carnauba from Brazil.

I dont know what you mean by Best in Show but the premier car waxes, like Zymol Royal Glaze have 70% Brazilian No.1 White Carnauba by volume.

 

True, but I wouldn't call Royal Glaze a "paste", so it's not really subject to the normal 30-35% limit for carnauba content. It's a *lot* harder than a typical paste, and to use it, you have to dig out a small amount and melt it in your hands before rubbing it on the paint. Sounds like a pain in the butt to use, but I wouldn't mind trying it just once.

 

Yo Mr El Jefe

 

Of course its harder because its almost pure carnauba Normal Glasur ... your also supposed to melt in your hands, I believe, and hand apply. Sounds cool.

Then again, you buy some Royal Glaze, just think .... you get a LIFETIME supply

 

I found an excerpt from an article by Dan Hollerman talking about carnauba
(of course I don't know who in the hec he is but here's what he says )

1) Natural Carnaubas
Extracted from the Brazilian tree Copernica Cerifera, carnauba is as hard as a brick in it’s natural form. Waxes that tell you they are “100% Carnauba” are really saying that the wax in the product is 100% carnauba, but in fact there are a few other things in the product besides wax, such as silicone oils and volatile solvents (petroleum distillates) that soften the wax so it can be spread, and haze in most cases. There really is no such thing as a “pure” wax product. They are all combinations of natural and synthetic ingredients.

The two best grades of #1 carnauba are white and #1 yellow carnauba. The more expensive carnauba products contain between 25% to 35% pure carnauba, while the lesser, cheaper products billed as carnaubas may only contain 5 % ! The rest of the ingredients are anyone’s guess.

Most agree that the depth of carnauba is perhaps the best you can get. There are tradeoffs as in everything; most last anywhere from 2 weeks to 7-10 weeks generally with the best ones on the latter end. Variables on this are how the car is used and subjected to the elements.

If the wax has no abrasives, it can be layered for extra protection and shine/depth. The other thing to consider is the melting ( fracture ) point of carnauba. The four grades of carnauba will melt at 165 degrees. This should be taken into account if you have a dark colored car that basks in the sun for periods of time, because the wax will simply melt away, given that surface temps on a vehicle can easily exceed 200 degrees on a sunny summer day.

 

Those Zymol waxes with 50% Carnauba by volume last much longer than other, less expensive carnaubas. I may try thier Concours kit this summer. We'll see.

 

Yup, everything written there is correct. The better the quality of the carnauba, the longer it lasts.

I uses some of the Malms was in November on my new car. The water is still beading. Now granted the last two weeks its under cover because of ice.

As in most anything, you get what you pay for

When he writes: The more expensive carnauba products contain between 25% to 35% pure carnauba, while the lesser, cheaper products billed as carnaubas may only contain 5 % !

He's talking the normal consumer grade stuff. I can believe Pinnacle Sourveign or PS21, both well regarded, runs 30% of so ... while Turtle wax in a can runs 5% Then again, Sourveign runs $65 or so and Turtle Wax $1.99 on sale.

 

I don't think most people realize this, but this is significant. Unless you garage your car and it doesn't have to sit out in the summer sun all day - you can kiss your carnauba goodbye.