Z5, as you say, has fillers... It diminishes the optical effects of the swirls, but it does not remove them, unfortunately...

Also, you can't fault people for calling Zaino a polish as that's what Sal Zaino calls it... IMHO, it's confusing as there are no abrasives in Z5/Z2, but what can you do?

 

Hey Octane, thanks for the reply before. I figured out that you have to blead the brakes on the 2003 MCS in the front, not the rear. I fear though that I might have ruined my rotors yesterday by driving on them. They were basically rubbing the whole way to work. This morning I got up and bled them out, which stopped them from rubbing while I drove, but when I slowed down to stop, it sounded like I was rubbing empty pads on the rotors. I am going to get new rotors in a day or so and hopefully change them out this weekend. Have you heard of anyone else coming across this problem? I'm hoping that this is going to solve the problem I have been having with the rubbing. Thank you again for all of your pictures, they helped out tremendously in figuring out where things are.

BKRock

 

Octaneguy or anyone else...

Do you know of a step by step guide that includes product recommendations and how to use to detail the paint and remove the swirls as you do?

i would like to do this on a nice day my self but am unsure where to start or what products to use.

 

Funny you ask. =)
I've got a detailing DVD in the NAM store that does exactly this. It shows you how to detail using the PC and by hand along with the products that work.

PM me if you any questions.

Richard

 

Can I use M80 on top of a few Zaino layers?
I like Z2 and Z5 but the latter doesn't do much for swirls IMO. I've tried Sonus SFX-2 as well but was not really impressed either (didn't see any real improvement). So now I'm willing to try M80, but do I have to remove all those Zaino layers first?

 

Sure you can. I mean, if you use M80, a paint cleaner/polish on top of Zaino, it will "obliterate" what Zaino there is, and remove the defects from the paint, as well as adding gloss. But because M80 utilizes polishing oils--you will want to Dawn Wash it, like I did in the writeup--and then do your Zaino over it.

Richard

 

XMan - Try the Zaino Z-PC. It works really well getting out swirls and it is compatible with the rest of the Zaino system - no need to mess with trying to get it off before doing Z-2 or Z-5. The Z-PC is a diminishing abrasive polish so it is similar to Scratch-X, but I think it works better based on side-by-side work.

 

Scratch-X IMO is not a product I recommend when using the PC. It's a very good product when used properly by hand, but there are plenty of better products that you can use with the PC.

Also the most recent release (about Sept 2006) of this product was reformulated for the PC but its aggressiveness is about half of anything useful such as M80 Speed Glaze. If you're just pointing out that Z-PC as well as Scratch-X both contain diminishing abrasives, well we might as well include Prima's Swirl or Finish in there as well.

But the more accurate comparison of effectiveness between the Meguiar's system and Zaino's system is Z-PC to M80 (Speed Glaze). And then the only difference between them is which one is easier to use, and yes Z-PC would be it since you don't need an extra step, but since I've never used the product, I can't comment on how easy it is to work with- there are plenty of products that I don't like using with the PC, but M80 isn't one of them.

Btw, M80 is also compatible with Zaino--just Dawn Wash it --that's not something unfamilar to Zaino users. Or you could spray a 50/50 rubbing alcohol/water mixture and wipe it down instead of a wash. The look won't change after the Dawn Wash at all, but you might as well do it because Zaino Purists would say you should. My partner has done it without the Dawn Wash and the results were just as effective...but ya never know what people might say.

If the reason for using Zaino is purely to stay within compatible systems, then it makes just as much sense to finish with a synthetic like Prima Epic or Meguiar's M21 or M20 for that single step finish and do away with Zaino altogether, since with M80, you no longer need the filling properties of Z5, and if durability is measured in terms of longevity, then the way to make a "less durable" wax more durable is to apply it more often.

Richard

 

I didn't want to bring up the Prima products since he is using Zaino. If he is using Zaino then the Z-PC would be a logical choice for swirl elimination. I compared it to Scratch-X since most know what that is and does so relating the Z-PC to it provides a little common ground.
If the floor is open, then by all means mention the Prima stuff!

 

Well he mentioned Sonus which isn't any more compatible with Zaino than say Meguiar's or Prima, and since he wanted to know whether he had to remove Zaino before using Meguiar's product M80 Speed Glaze, that's how we ended up where we are.

I think just about anyone that sees the results of using a single product like M80 on your paint will be pretty impressed that you can remove swirls, defects, and get the wet look before putting on a wax, and then follow with any wax you desire to seal that in without diminishing the effects of that single polish. Two products, no fillers, great look, easy to use, no need to layer the wax. Lots of benefits.

 

Exactly - I feel the same way about Menzerna's "Intensive Polish". It's been described as "a rubbing compound that think's it's a polish", which I think is about a perfect description. It's great at removing swirls and defects, but if you want to, you can go directly from the Intensive Polish to their FMJ synthetic sealant and be done with it. I usually use the Final Polish II in-between the IP and the FMJ, but 99% of people probably wouldn't notice the difference from the extra step.

 

OctaneGuy...this probably has been already addressed, but can M-80 be used by hand to remove swirls?

Also, if I someday become brave enough to buy and use a PC, how do you decide if scratches are too deep and that trying to buff them out will require to go too deep that you would end up doing damage? My wife's civic with silver metallic paint has a bunch of scratches on its trunk

 

Yes M80 can be used by hand or machine, but I don't know if it's effectiveness would be the same. You're much better off using ScratchX to remove swirls by hand than M80.

re: Scratches
Experience will tell you what you can remove with a PC and what you can't. You will NEVER go too deep with a PC to do damage. This is myth about the PC. You can put all your weight on the PC and hold it in one area on your paint, and it will never damage it. But because it's so safe, that also means it doesn't get out very deep scratches.

If you can feel the scratch with your fingernail it's too deep for a PC.

Take a look at these scratches--these are clearcoat scratches that probably could be removed by PC.







These scratches require the more powerful rotary buffer which is what you are confusing the PC with.





This MIGHT be able to be removed with a PC although a rotary would be desirable here


Please note that I do NOT recommend anybody to use the rotary buffer unless they are highly experienced.

If you are really scared by the thought of using the PC, get my DVD in the NAM store and check out how to use it properly and why it's safe. The video also shows how to polish your paint and protect it by hand, so whether you adopt the PC or not, you will learn plenty.

http://store.northamericanmotoring.c...t=0&bestseller

Richard

 

great info here! Sorry for the hijack but anyone know of any quality detailers in the Chicagoland area?

 

Octaneguy's right - it's virtually impossible to damage your paint with an orbital polisher, unless your favourite brand of polish is "Dr. FeelRough's Medicated Beach Sand".

I've got both orbital and rotary polishers (Griot's Orbital and DeWalt DW849 Rotary), and while the rotary can fix defects that the orbital can't, you have to be *much* more careful with it. With a wool compounding bonnet on the DeWalt and some medium rubbing compound, you can be down to the primer before you even know it.

For individual scratches that are slightly too deep for the orbital, but still not through the clearcoat, I like to carefully wet-sand the area with 2000- or 2500-grit WetorDry sandpaper to knock the scratch down, and then use the orbital to bring back the shine. The drawback to this is that since the wet-sanding removes the factory orange-peel from the paint, the repaired area will actually end up being a little shinier than the rest of the paint.

Regardless, if you have any interest in detailing at all, get Octane's video and invest in an orbital polisher. You'll wonder how you ever cared for your paint without one.

 

More Zaino thoughts:
Dry time varies depending on temperature and humidity but I rarely have to wait more than 15 minutes for it to dry and pass the "finger test". The real trick, and one that 90% of Zaino users forget, is that you can apply Zaino very, very thinly. A foam applicator, by hand or PC, is best. Cotton and MF pads make it more difficult to apply wax evenly and thin enough. There are no abrasives so you don't "rub it in" you simply wipe it on. No pressure or elbow grease involved.

As a rule of thimb, if you see obvious "wax lines" from your application passes of wax then you are applying too much. If you see lines (like you do for most carnaubas, for instance) after the sealant has dried then you absolutely applied too much. This will make it take longer to dry and add more resistance to wiping it off. As an example, I can mix up half a vial (1-ounce) of Zaino with ZFX and easily get 3+ coats on the MINI. (I usually still have some left over...that's why I have shiny lawn mowers, bikes, snow blowers, etc! )

As soon as the first coat is off you can apply another. I apply several at every sitting and never break a sweat and it's very quick.

I appreciate a detailed car no matter what wax it is covered in...I even have a couple of my cars coated in different carnauba brands (I experiment all the time). But my fleet keeps me hopping and the fact that a couple of the other rides get the Zaino treatment makes my life easy as I appreciate the long lived gloss and slickness.

Everyone has their favorites, that's cool. I have "almost" literally every brand of wax and abrasive available today in my cabinets at home and I keep coming back to Z.

 

I originally applied Zaino by hand using a cotton applicator, because of the part in the directions that said that if you used a foam pad on a buffer, the pad would soak up more product than you needed to do the entire car.

But no matter how thinly I tried to apply it by hand, I kept running into the long drying time / wasted product problem. I switched over to a foam pad on a polisher, and it made it so much easier to apply a thin coat, and the pad didn't really soak up much product at all. It dried much faster, was easier to remove, and the results were much better.

For a synthetic polish, I keep coming back to Menzerna FMJ, but that's not to say that the Zaino didn't look great too. Once you get into the Zaino/Blackfire/Menzerna arena, the differences are minor and it boils down to personal preference. From the reviews posted here, it sounds like Epic has joined the club as well, but I haven't had a chance to try it out personally yet.

 

Great job, Richard. It's no Der Shiny Stuff, but it's nice

 

OctaneGuy: if one were to use the PC with Zaino (Z2 pro) would you use a microfiber bonnet to remove the dried Z2 or remove by hand.....how about Epic..do you remove that with the PC/mf bonnet or by hand?

 

Either way is fine. I do both. I normally use the PC/MF bonnet on scratch sensitive paints or when I'm feeling lazy , otherwise using a Monster Fluffy towel works great--the wax just glides off. Atleast it does with Epic.

Since most of the posts I've read about Zaino are such that people don't wait for it to fully cure or pass the Swipe Test, I guess use whatever method lets you take the Zaino off easiest.