w a g s f t b: yo ryan.. gotta question about car care.. you seem to know what's up..
Ryephile: I would recommend picking one of the two major schools of thought..
Ryephile: School A) Caranuba waxes, Zymol representing the pinnacle of caranuba tech
Ryephile: School B) synthetics, Zaino Brothers representing the peak in that arena
w a g s f t b: yeah both those names keep popping up
Ryephile: personally, when it comes to doing a show detail, I need 1: quick, and 2: optically transparent
Ryephile: side note: when I'm doing shows, I don't use waxes of any sort, only glossifiers
w a g s f t b: yeah well i own't be doing and shows with my MINI
Ryephile: Wizards Products are the king of show-car products
Ryephile: Paint-prep is crucial
Ryephile: my preference is a clay-bar
Ryephile: it's easier to use than "cleaners" and provides tactile feedback on when the paint is clean
Ryephile: for how much I love Zymol waxes, I hate their HD Cleanse (the paint cleaner)
Ryephile: first off, don't go to your local Wal-Mart, Murray's, Checker, or whatever local auto parts store
Ryephile: they carry mostly EVIL products
w a g s f t b: yeah the stuff i have now is meguiar's stuff based on a post
Ryephile: meguiar's is Ok (Davbret seems to like them, but I find most Meguiars products to be too labor intensive, and not have the visual snap of Zaino or Wizards)
Ryephile: so anyway, after a good Claybar rubdown (Mothers, and just about everyone makes clay bars, pick whatever)
Ryephile: ..time for your wax application
w a g s f t b: so after i wash and dry, i'll rub winnie down with a claybar
Ryephile: oh, yea, after the claybar, you'll wanna wash again
Ryephile: the car get's all yukkie with fallout residue
w a g s f t b: but makes sense
Ryephile: yea, a full detail job does really take hours!=-O
Ryephile: but you only have to do it every few months
Ryephile: on my Bimmer, I use Zymol's Carbon, a yellow caranuba for darker colors
Ryephile: Zymol just released a specific wax just for the MINI (they do car-specific waxes sometimes)
Ryephile: http://www.zymol.com/mini.htm
Ryephile: http://www.zymol.com (for the rest of their stuff)
w a g s f t b: ha, that thing's crazy.. matches your car's color..is that kit worth it?
Ryephile: the Zymol MINI glaze is a great price, I'm gettin' it anyway
w a g s f t b: yeah, i mean, it comes with a pen!
Ryephile: and the microfiber towel is a great bonus too!
w a g s f t b: so i'll get that
Ryephile: Just make sure to READ THE DIRECTIONS
w a g s f t b: and zymol isn't like zaino where you wax all the time, right
Ryephile: and contrary to "popular belief", never rub in circular motions!!!
w a g s f t b: ..still talking about waxing, right
Ryephile: zymol is caranuba-based, so it provides a visual gauge via water 'beading' to tell you when it's worn off
Ryephile: never circular motions for anything on your paint
Ryephile: you want to minimize your axes of reflection with the micro-scratches
Ryephile: wiping in one direction is as minimal as it gets
Ryephile: turbo recommendations: Glass cleaner: Stoner Invisible Glass or Eagle One 20/20 (spray on, wipe, wait til dry, then buff, yes buff out)
w a g s f t b: i have stoner's
Ryephile: Black plastic, and interior plastic: 303 aerospace protectant
Ryephile: leatherette, Lexol's Vinylex
w a g s f t b: for the black outside trim, i also have a stoner product
Ryephile: tires: I use Meguires endurance tire gel, it's nice, but major messy
Ryephile: better than those damn tire foam's tho!
Ryephile: car shampoo, including wheels: Zymol Clear
Ryephile: most of it's is just trial and error and recommendation
Ryephile: I have so many hundreds of dollars of ***** in my garage shelves its almost a joke
w a g s f t b: what about sponges? i have a... ***** can't even remember
Ryephile: natural sponge or sheepskin
w a g s f t b: the one i have is a mit
Ryephile: Here's your Microfiber source: http://www.microfibertech.com/
Ryephile: they can be in a mit shape, that's fine
w a g s f t b: i think the one i have is sheepskin
w a g s f t b: have you used the cali water blade?
Ryephile: I use sheepskin, the trick is to keep lots of suds
Ryephile: I use the water blade, actually, lol
w a g s f t b: yeah, i got one from the store.. it's kinda nice i guess
Ryephile: it's a bit hard on the wax tho, so only when I'm super rushed
w a g s f t b: hard to contour to the MINI
Ryephile: use big microfiber waffle weave towels to dry
w a g s f t b: and they're NOT chamois, right?
Ryephile: Here's your ticket to towel-perfection: http://www.microfibertech.com/superPack.html
Ryephile: chamios suck, hard to use, don't suck up water
w a g s f t b: yeah i hate them
Ryephile: I use Wizards synthetic chamois for big areas, it get's the vast majority of water off
w a g s f t b: i was reading something about microfiber towels from groits site
Ryephile: they're the least abrasive absorbant material current
Ryephile: http://wizardsproducts.com/
Ryephile: Mist-n-shine, it's the absolute best finishing spray ever:-D
Ryephile: use is post wash, when you don't need to wax
Ryephile: it's the last thing you'll use before cruising
Ryephile: also, great for touch-ups (between washes)
w a g s f t b: so i use this when i wash but don't wax
Ryephile: yep, you got the idea
Ryephile: Shinemaster is amazing, but not practical for a daily-driver (only lasts a few days!)
Ryephile: pick up a Water Bandit while you're there
Ryephile: also, their Vinyl Shine is equivalent to 303 Aerospace
w a g s f t b: so get that, too
Ryephile: (for interior and exterior plastics)
Ryephile: (smells great too!)
Ryephile: those three, and you're set!
Ryephile: be sure to get that microfiber kit from that page I linked above
Ryephile: what I found works great for exterior black trim and plastic is the Zymol waxes, since they have oils in them, they really make the black look great (no fading either, since it's waxed!)
w a g s f t b: isn't wax on plastic make streaks or something
Ryephile: you're thinking of synthetic waxes with silicone
w a g s f t b: oh
Ryephile: aka turtle wax, eagle one
Ryephile: those are the CRAP waxes you need to stay away from
w a g s f t b: so when i do wax, i won't have to like tape up everything i don't want wax on (like Davbret, lol)
Ryephile: ...and leave those little white streaks everywhere, and in the cracks
w a g s f t b: yeah but his name's ryan too
Ryephile: using the Zymol wax, you actually WANT to get the wax on the trim, it only helps
Ryephile: oh, about wheels: I use Zymol Clear (same as paint), but do wheels last. I put on a Mechaniks wear glove and use my hand like a wash mitt, and rub the wheels clean with the suds
Ryephile: http://www.mothers.com/products/products.html
Ryephile: under Paint Care, bout half way down
Ryephile: most of Mother's products are relatively scary, so I was surprised that their Claybar was safe
Ryephile: no the, Mother's clay bar is $19ish
Ryephile: Wizards and Zymol’s claybars are overpriced
w a g s f t b: so now i need the towels...
Ryephile: http://www.microfibertech.com/superPack.html
w a g s f t b: so how long til i'm buying all this stuff again
Ryephile: again!? ughk, two years from now, lol
w a g s f t b: good
w a g s f t b: should i get any other extra towels, or should this kit take care of it
Ryephile: seriously, I use my Wizards Mist-n-shine ALL THE TIME, and I haven't needed to buy a bottle in 18 months!
Ryephile: hmm, waffle for drying, a glass towel, two elite (one for mist-n-shine, one for vinyl-shine, and the wash mitt
Ryephile: nope, that's it!
Ryephile: (you'll use the mist-n-shine towel for wax removal too)
Ryephile: (and you apply the wax by hand, actually)
w a g s f t b: is that in the directions?
Ryephile: should be!
Ryephile: also, you could pick up a California car duster
w a g s f t b: yeah i've got one
Ryephile: those are awesome once you get them nice n dirty
w a g s f t b: funny all those posts about people throwing it away when they got dirty
Ryephile: they'll streak like mad brand new
w a g s f t b: alright, sweet, i guess i'm set
Ryephile: you should see mine, it looks wretched, but works amazing
w a g s f t b: this should come with a detailer who does the work for you
Ryephile: the stuff I recommended is all relatively low-effort with max "sparkle"
w a g s f t b: ok, thanks for all your help!
Ryephile: no problem, good luck!

 

Ok, few people have complained of their head exploding after reading that, SORRY!
Put your head back together, and I'll try to explain from the beginning.
----------------------------------------------

Yes, there are major differences in ease of usage, optics, and protection among car car products. I can't say that you won't adapt a new lifestyle if you want to decode all the products! :smile:

Drying - after getting your car wet...and clean, you need to get it dry!
Chamois - age-old crap, leaves tons of water marks, absorbs litte
Synthetic Chamois - the cheapies suck even more, good ones are awesome
the "water blade" is a quick solution, high risk of paint scratching
Davbret's "leaf-blower" method - quick and no-touch, make sure you're not sandblasting though!

Paint cleaner - occasional usage to remove the "hard-core" stuff that the shampoo can't (comes in either liquid or clay-bar form)
-->Liquid paint cleaners vary in abrasiveness, and should be used with extreme care
-->Clay bar systems are relatively easy to use, and will never harm paint

Protection - different forms of "wax" exist in the market, all have pro's and con's
--> Caranuba is a natural extract that is harder than concrete, providing a very hard shell of protection around the paint. Caranuba-based waxes also add smoothers, spreaders, and lubricants to aid in application.
--> Synthetics account for much of the "wax" market. Varying chemical compound make it hard to generalize. Most consumer available synthetics contain silicone, which leaves those dreaded "white swirls" everywhere, especially on trim! Better synthetic waxes don't have these additives, and can provide amazing optical transparancy with excellent reflective properties.

Wheels and Tires - from ultra-gloss to natural satin sheen, it's a zoo out there.
Wheel cleaners are abundant, and mostly useless and overly corrosive/abrasive. Your best bet is to stick with your car shampoo, and do you wheels last.
Tire shine products usually contain silicone, and must be used with caution - you're adding a lubricant to your traction tires!

Interior and Trim - from exterior trim to interior plastics and upholstery.
Leather - a proper feeding is critical for leather longetivity, you definitely get what you pay for here
Vinyl and other plastics - a bit of shine, and maximum UV protection are the criticals here, although many popular "protectants" actually harm the plastic long-term!
Fabrics - a nice gentle cleaner that won't trash your fabric after the 2nd use is important. Fabrics show dirt much more than leathers and vinyls.

Keeping it shiny - after it's all said and done, what's next?
Glossifiers - the "spray and shine" sort of liquid sprays, a sort of fake wax, they are easy on and easy off, and don't add much if any protection....good for removing water spots and light dust.
Dusters - like the california duster, these work great to remove that "mid-week dust layer" be sure to follow the directions! The dirtier they get, the better they work!
Car Covers - also known as a garage, keep your car out of the elements!

This is just a description of the categories, I might do a post of some product "do's and don't's" soon! Don't hesitate to PM or e-mail me with questions!

Cheers,
Ryan

 

You Forgot Swirl Removers!

 

>>You Forgot Swirl Removers!

DOH!
Ok, swirl removers are actually abrasive products that "level" your paint surface, thus "removing" the scratch or whatever. Swirl removers must be used with care so you don't thin out the clear coat too much. The other type of swirl remover are fillers, stuff that works into the scratch and then hardens, hopefully without being too noticable

I don't like swirl removers in general, they're an easy way to destroy your finish if not careful. My best advice for this category; don't get scratches!

 

Dang. If I were moderator in this forum I'd sticky this post.

Great stuff in there. Thanks for spending the time involved to do that.

 

I'm a bit confused about your categorizing silicone in sythentics....from research over at autopia most seem to say that it is the opposite as carnuba is a very hard substance...that it would never be appliable to a paint surface if it was 100% carnuba....and most carnubas use silicone to make the wax more user friendly.

I use zaino and have always loved it, though not real keen on their claybar or z5 for swirls. It has been a few years since I've tried zymol and I've learned alot in the past few years on detailing so possibly should try that again.

A few other comments - Stoner's Invisible Glass ROCKS, same with 303 products, and people - WAX YOUR WHEELS - it makes the cleaning process SO much easier...espeically for those with white wheels. For those that find a bit of really hard baked on brake dust - i like simple green....but this stuff is greasy...so don't just spray it on your wheels and get it all over your rotors...spray it on a towel first...possibly even dilute it with a bit of water first....then white the towel on the hard spots on your wheels. Wash it off with a bit of water and rewax.

Lexol stuff is great for leatherette...though for real leather i prefer zaino's leather car poducts.

Additionally tools that are handly is few sizes of detail brushes for the interior of the car and plenty of cotton swabs for tight spots.

For microfiber towels i really have been happy with pakshak ones. http://www.pakshak.com

 

>>Dang. If I were moderator in this forum I'd sticky this post.
>>
>>Great stuff in there. Thanks for spending the time involved to do that.

Done!

Thanks for the great info guys!

 

All of the above is Barbra Streisand... Try Eagle One Wet Wax as U Dry.

_________________

 

Ok, quick question: Is chamois really 'crap'? I was using some synthetic stuff and then the rubber water blade and was having a though time getting the water all out without marks etc. A neighbor who collect cars swears by chamois so I picked one up from Costco. And it is a WHOLE LOT better than the other synthetic rubbery stuff and the water blade for me. Quick, absorbant. I can do a whole minivan without wringing.

Question: Is the synthetic microfiber really much better than chamois EVERY TIME, even the nicer chamois? I'm willing to try it but don't want to shell out $$ before getting reconfirmation here.

Thanks again - you guys are tops.

 

>>Ok, quick question: Is chamois really 'crap'? I was using some synthetic stuff and then the rubber water blade and was having a though time getting the water all out without marks etc. A neighbor who collect cars swears by chamois so I picked one up from Costco. And it is a WHOLE LOT better than the other synthetic rubbery stuff and the water blade for me. Quick, absorbant. I can do a whole minivan without wringing.
>>
>>Question: Is the synthetic microfiber really much better than chamois EVERY TIME, even the nicer chamois? I'm willing to try it but don't want to shell out $$ before getting reconfirmation here.
>>
>>Thanks again - you guys are tops.

i CAN'T STAND chamois! i find it hard to believe one could use it without wringing and leaving no water. It seems as if "old-school" car people do actually prefer the chamois, but maybe it's a habitual thing for them..

the cali water blade is good for speeding up the drying process, but i wouldn't use it as a stand alone drying product.

I just received in the mail the water bandit from Wizard, and look foward to seeing how it works in terms of drying. it feels sorta like a chamois, so we'll see. it was already quite damp when i opened the box, but i'll report back after i get to use it. friday, maybe, weather permitting.

I also have some microfiber towels coming in that i'll have to check out as well. should be better than the recommended bath towels or other cotton towels
ryan

 

Miniless, much of the whole drama behind choosing car-care products come down to preference. It's great to hear you're satisfied with the performance of natural chamois; my experiences have not been as positive

(this may not have helped, but hopefully gave a bit of perspective, lol)
Cheers,
Ryan

 

>>Ok, quick question: Is chamois really 'crap'? I was using some synthetic stuff and then the rubber water blade and was having a though time getting the water all out without marks etc. A neighbor who collect cars swears by chamois so I picked one up from Costco. And it is a WHOLE LOT better than the other synthetic rubbery stuff and the water blade for me. Quick, absorbant. I can do a whole minivan without wringing.
>>
>>Question: Is the synthetic microfiber really much better than chamois EVERY TIME, even the nicer chamois? I'm willing to try it but don't want to shell out $$ before getting reconfirmation here.
>>
>>Thanks again - you guys are tops.

I've used the chamois before and I've gotta say I don't like them. Maybe it was just the one I was using but I didn't like it. However, I went over to target and found a 3 pack of microfiber towels and they are the best. I'm not a professional detailer or anything, in fact my truck (the other vehicle in my fleet) hardly ever gets washed but I wanted to take care of my MINI. I have two I use a lot, one for glass and the other for drying. They are both only about 1 square foot and I can dry my whole MINI. Look around and find an inexpensive set and try it out. I got mine at Target (Baja del sol brand for less than $10) but I've also seen them at linens and things for relatively cheap as well.
-Chris

 

Ryephile,
Thanks for all the info! One question: where do you get that 303 aerospace protectant? Someone on another post said GI Joe's but our local store didn't have it.

 

I found it at my local Murray's auto parts store. If you don't have those, I'm sure you can search for it online!

Cheers,
Ryan

 

>>Ryephile,
>>Thanks for all the info! One question: where do you get that 303 aerospace protectant? Someone on another post said GI Joe's but our local store didn't have it.

Do you have Baxter's Auto Parts in Seattle? That's where I bought mine a couple of weeks ago in Portland.

 

>>Ok, quick question: Is chamois really 'crap'?<<

I'm not a detailing professional, nor do I play one on TV.

 

I purchased the "Water Sprite", which is a synthetic chamois. I don't know why, since I've definitely read enough on this site to know that I am risking scratching my clearcoat with it. Anyway it performed horribly the first time I tried it, so hopefully it will improve after a few uses, as a natural chamois does.

Question regarding the microfiber towels - can they be wrung out and reused, or do I need a small stack of them to dry my car?

Thanks Ryan for all of your help here!
Chris

_________________
2003 Cooper, Borla exhaust, Moss intake, Magnecor plug wires - Brookline, MA

 

>>>>Ryephile,
>>>>Thanks for all the info! One question: where do you get that 303 aerospace protectant? Someone on another post said GI Joe's but our local store didn't have it.
>>
>>Do you have Baxter's Auto Parts in Seattle? That's where I bought mine a couple of weeks ago in Portland.
>>

No, we have Shucks (the chain) but not Baxter's or Murray's.

 

>>Question regarding the microfiber towels - can they be wrung out and reused, or do I need a small stack of them to dry my car?
>>
>>Thanks Ryan for all of your help here!
>>Chris

microfiber towels can and should be washed and reused, but do not use fabric softeners or dryer sheets when drying, as that will build up lent, and cause streaking. basically microfiber towels are just really cool cotton towels, that seemingly work better.

ryan (not the one you thanked-- )



_________________
SOMEONE MAKE ME A COOL SIG THINGY

 

Geez, what is it with detailing and the name Ryan? This getting to be like an SNL skit!

 

Ok, time for Ryan part III to chime in.

And for 303 in Seattle area, you can get it at:

Doc Freeman's, Inc.
6400 8th Ave NW Seattle Wa. 98107
206-633-1500 or 800-423-8641
Summer Hours: Mon-Fri 8AM-6PM: Sat 8AM-5PM Closed Sun
http://www.docfreemans.com/

R

 

I can vouch for those microfiber towels!

I now use the synthetic, rubbery chamois for the jambs and under the bonnet

 

Anybody know what to use on the black plastic exterior trim? Mine appears to be getting just a tad gray after a winter of salty roads. Anything out there that'll bring it back to life and keep it that way????

 

>>Anybody know what to use on the black plastic exterior trim? Mine appears to be getting just a tad gray after a winter of salty roads. Anything out there that'll bring it back to life and keep it that way????

I got a thing of Wizards Vinyl Shine from http://wizardsproducts.com/frameP.htm , but have yet to use it so i can't report back

Also, RyanI suggested 303 aerospace protectant and have heard good things about it

Ryan II

 

OK, any concensus on the best, most luxurious, high quality etc etc microfiber cloth? Or can any ol microfiber work such as from Walmart?

As to chamois, my neighbor laughed when I told him that I was going to grab one from the local store. According to him, there's a huge difference in quality of chamois. I didn't buy an expensive one but did get the large size from Costco and opened about 6 boxes (they are not sealed) to find the thickest heaviest one. All I know from mine is that I can dry an entire Toyota Sienna without wringing it out and it worked better than two or three bath cotton towels - absolutely no streaks. Not defending this stuff, but to say that I've had good experience with real chamois. Lasted me a year so far.

BUT, I'd rather use microfiber if indeed they are better and easier to care for. (I just dump my chamois into a washing machine after I'm done for a little spin wash by itself.)