Right? Thats what ive gathered. I need my swirls gone, its polish to do this, right?

And on the meguairs site, it has swirl remover. On the container it has a guy with a buffer. Does that mean its only for machine use?

 

Depends on the polish. Polishes go from no abrasives to light to heavy abrasives. Will you be doing this by hand or with a polisher? OctaneGuy's video on how to use the PC for show car results covers both both the by hand and polisher methods. - www.showcargarage.com There are clips from the DVD there. I would highly recommend getting it.

I've watched most of the video and the polisher method is WAY easier. You could probably buy yourself a nice setup of chemicals and a polisher for what you'd pay a good shop to do the work for you. Honestly, after claybarring and waxing my mini I got the polisher to tackle my Suburban. I figured I'd end up with much better results in the end if I used the polisher than by hand. I'd get worn out and it would take FOREVER! The plan is to spend more time prepping the finish before the wax goes on and take all the work out of waxing. Between the car washing vid and the PC DVD I've completely changed my stance on what good finish care is.

By hand : 1) Meguiar's Scratch X (maybe multiple times) to remove the swirls, 2) Meguiar's Pure Polish (not shure which one but a polish without abrasives) for shine, 3) Meguiar's NXT Tech Wax for protection

By Polisher : 1) Meguiar's M80 Polish for swirl removal and shine, 2) Meguiar's NXT Tech Wax for protection

These steps are explained in great detail on the PC DVD. Watching the time it takes to do it by hand over the PC is quite a sales pitch for the polisher! You could probably have polished and waxed the entire hood (or more) in the time it took him to do a 15" x 15" test spot by hand. The end result of the PC applied finish is 99.9% of the time going to look better than a hand applied polish. You just can't physically duplicate the results of the polisher. That is unless you've had some 6 Million Dollar Man parts installed!

Oh and don't forget starting with a test spot...."if it doesn't work on one small spot, you don't want to be doing it to the whole car"

 

Everybody has their own favorites but I just got rid of all of my swirl marks (by hand) & wrote about it here
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ad.php?t=78159

 

A random oprbital and a good polish will make very short work of light swirling, but if can certainly be done by hand - just remember to take your time and work in small areas (about the size of your two open hands). You'll need to rub the polish into the paint "with spirit" to activate the polishing grit. Don't rush and work panel by panel (after testing, as was stated above of course) to assure you didn't miss anything.

I've used the ColorX on my Suburban for spot polishing, and plan to do the whole thing when I finally get a RO machine. I used Griot's finest-grade polish on my Mini with a borrowed RO and it turned it into a mirror.

 

ImagoX - I was wondering when you'd chime in. It's easy to tell who's been bitten by the detailing bug. They're the first to chime in on any new detailing post.

I'm hoping to tackle my suburban this weekend. I can't wait to try out my new Meguiar's (PC) polisher. I want to get a good coat of wax on her before we head down to the beach in a couple of weeks. Tis the season for the love bug mating. Those things are nasty and can ruin your paint if you leave them on long enough.

 

i recommend you try Meguiar's ScratchX and do it by hand first
unless you want to spend hundreds on tools and polishes.

put a nickel size on a soft cotton terry and work it into the
paint with some elbow grease. do a ~6x6 inch area at a time.

 

Oooohh... it's SO FUN. You're going to have a blast. Just be sure to take the extra time to prep: mask off anyplace you don't want polish with painter's tape (the 2" stuff is best). It takes MUCH less time to tapew than to get ground-in polish out of plastic (plus the RO can actually change the finish of the matte plastic, which would be baaaaad). Suburban's are nice that way since most of them have painted wheel arches. Just use a detailing brush (available at any car parts place or Wally World for like $3) to get the white remnants out of the seams.

And take pics! We love pics...

And I've heard form the ShowCarGarage guys that the ScratchX is fine for anything other than a "show car"... In other words it's "perfectly acceptable" for regular cars. I guess "show cars" need to be polished with products that use platinum flakes or powdered semiprecious stones as a abrasive or something.

 

Isn't Scratch X a bit harsh to use all over the Mini for swirl removal (unless your finish is in really bad shape)? I only use Scratch X as a spot treatment for major scratches.

 

not really. It's a very mild abrasive.

 

Im ordering scratchx

 

Just use a foam applicator with the ScratchX and rub until you arm falls off. I had some very minor scratches on the bonnet from a stray football (damn kids) . ScratchX took them out after about four applications with plenty of rubbing. Good as new and a really buff arm as well.
BTW flannelhippie, you should be able to find ScratchX almost any where - even Target or PepBoys.

 

Is scratch x sutible for removing swirls from the whole car?

 

^ yep. just takes a lot of work if done by hand. but i did it on mine
when i first got my car as it was badly swirled.

 

^^^ Yep me too. But how many tubes did you go through for the whole car? I just ordered one to see if I like it.

 

oh, one will be enough to do many cars!

Ive been using the same tube the last several years.

 

If you want to consider the Zaino route, Z5 will remove swirl marks, too. We did it on my husband's car by hand.

 

Z5 works well, but it only fills in the swirls. Zaino has the new abrasive Z-PC that removes the clear coat or paint to even out scratches or swirls.

 

I found that the Z-PC was much more effective than the ScratchX. Took less rubbing to get the swirls out. Perhaps more abrasive?

 

Something worthy of note regarding polishes...

Many products state that they "remove" scratches/swirls/etc. In reality, some products physically remove scratches/swirls, while others remove the appearance of scratches/swirls (aka temporarily fill/conceal them until a wash or two later). The latter case is what some manufacturers rely on to validate their statement. In other words, when pressed, they will admit that when they use the word "remove" they really mean "remove the appearance of", as opposed to actually removing it! (we've pressed many manufacturers on this!) It drives me crazy that they write things like that in order to trick people!

So, be aware that product statements can be deceiving about scratch/swirl "removal."

-Heather

 

yep, sounds like it is much more abrasive.

 

Heather what products have you found that actually remove the swirl marks as opposed to just filling them in? I am beginning to wonder if the Sonus polishes I just used & reviewed in another thread actually removed my swirls because my Mini looked flawless after I finished & when I washed thsi Sat I noticed some swirl marks reappeared

 

A couple of thoughts...

Before critiquing the products, double-check your washing/drying methods. Sometimes you do get the scratches/swirls out but put a few back in with your washing/drying. I re-read your review thread but didn't see much about your wash/dry techniques. It's likely their fine anyway, but I always like to mention it just in case... ya hate to keep fixing stuff that you didn't realize could be prevented. I can give you a copy of a washing & drying techniques info sheet if you're interested (and if I can figure out how to attach such things... haven't done that before!)

One category I didn't cover in my last post is that many products physically remove swirls with abrasives but also contain fillers/concealers. Just what you wanted to hear, right? Yet another confusing category! With products we know that have both properties, here's the trick we use... after you work each section, spritz it with a mix of 50/50 rubbing alcohol and water (preferably distilled) and wipe. This mix will safely remove most fillers/concealers so you can truly check your work. Why use this type of product? The fact is: 1) some situations are best solved using an abrasive product that happens to have concealers, and/or 2) sometimes you want to see how far you can go with swirl removal but at some point give-in and conceal the few that are left. Soooo, these combo products can have their place. BTW, you can test a product to see how much of it is filler/concealer by doing the 50/50 alcohol/water spritz after using it on a section of paint.

I can't honestly give you any tech info on the Sonus polishes. Unfortunately, it is one product lines we haven't tested against... not for any good reason other than we haven't gotten around to it! We test against literally dozens of products and the list grows and grows (esp when we get specific requests to test a specific product). Sometimes a desired product is on "the list" but we just haven't gotten to it yet! Sorry I can't be more technical on this product line.

So, although I can't comment directly on the Sonus polishes I can offer some ideas in general based on your experience. My guess, based on what I've read, is that the SFX-1 & SFX-2 polishes contain abrasives, so they are likely to remove at least some swirls and maybe even alot of swirls (the SFX-1 doing more of course). I don't know if they also contain concealers. I also don't know how abrasive either one is. (Some abrasives are not that super effective for swirl removal when used by hand.) So, they could be doing a little of both- I don't know. Try each again on a test section but spritz with the alcohol dilution and test them as desribed above.

Although the Klasse All-In-One does not contain any abrasives, it does contain some really good concealers. I'd guess the Detailing Spritz contains some concealers too (just b/c most QD sprays do). Did you take a good look at the paint in good light between your steps 3 & 4 and 4 & 5? If you went straight to your Detaiilng Spritz and Klasse AIO, you could've still have some scratches/swirls but then quickly concealed them. Just another thought...

I wouldn't be too upset though... I can't imagine that the Sonus polishes didn't at the very least remove some swirls and maybe lots! Even in the worse case scenario, I doubt you wasted your time. Based on your review, you did lots of good stuff anyway! Like you said, you saw some of the swirls come back, not all. You just may need to go back and work at them a little more with the SFX-1. And, double-check your washing/drying techniques.

Good luck! Hope this helped. Let me know if you want me to try to give you the washing/drying techniques info sheet I have. Sorry, as usual, for being so long-winded.

-Heather

 

My pro car detailing supply shop advised me that unless I had deep swirls that I could feel with my my fingernail I should use a hand glaze. M80, he said, was really a pro polish that, when used with a Porter Cable polisher, could actually damage the clear coat. (I did say I have no experience using a machine polisher)

The finish on mine has minor swirls and I'm trying 3m Hand Glaze before I attack them with a machine.

 

All of Meguiar's polishes seem to work great, either by hand or on a random orbital. I used the Mirror Glaze (the "M" series) by hand for years at a cycle dealership and swore by them... this was before the Porter Cable (which began its life as a wood sander, BTW and is still sold as such in hardware stores and online) was released, mind you...

Hugh, it sounds to me like your detailing shop was talking about using something ike the M80 on a ROTARY polisher... the difference between a rotary and a random orbital is that a rotary SPINS the entire pad (like a drill), and if used incorrectly WILL burn right through your paint in literally seconds. That's not to say that a rotary doesn't have a place in detailing, but it IS far more agressive than a random orbital and should only be used by someone that knows what they're doing!

A random orbital does NOT spin the pad, but rather uses an offset shaft that causes the pad to move in a small circular pattern, much like the action your hand makes when polishing. The difference is that the RO does this motion several hundred times minute, saving you effort. RO polishers therefore are considered to be much more "forgiving", and, even if you lean into them, it will be hard to damage the paint. Keep in mindd though that ALL polishes work by either filling in the scratches (optically blurring them but not removing them) or by literally stripping off tiny ammounts of the clear coat - do that enough and you WILL go through the paint to the metal, that's just a fact. The trick is to work slow and check your work often, beginning with a test patch someplace as unobtrusive as possible. This applies to hand OR machine techniques...

If you want more info on all types of polishing techniques (mechanical and hand-powered), the DVD sold over on ShowCarGarage.com is considered to be the definitive work on the subject around here - I'd highly recommend checking it out.

Good luck!

 

The "fingernail" test by any expert I've known refers to whether or not a scratch or swirl is repairable by abrasion. In other words, if you can catch your nail in a scratch then it's likely that the scratch has gone through to your primer and will require paint (touchup, airbrush or whatever your preference) to completely fix. A polish can usually minimize the size and/or appearance of such scratches though.

I find you shop's comment about "damage to the clearcoat" well, interesting. In abrading you intentionally remove some of the clearcoat, as its the only way to remove the scratch or swirl. If a heavy abrasive polish or compound is used, it will likely result in hazing. Hazing is the cloudiness left behind from a heavy abrasive. This isn't "damage" but rather a necessary means to an end. One or more followup or finishing steps is required next. Although many situations don't require such a heavy polish to begin with, there are other situations when it is the only way to remove a deep scratch or swirl. (see the sanding analogy below)

When most people refer to the "Porter Cable" polisher, they are referring to the Dual-Action (DA) Orbital version (aka either model # 7336SP or # 7424). This is one of the very few polishers with the safe DA Orbital action, yet enough torque to work the polish effectively (in other words, break down the abrasive particles and doing so evenly and consistently). Using this machine, I can say with great confidence from my own personal experience that I have never damaged any clearcoat with it even when using some really serious cutting compound. In the cases of using a heavy cutting polish, I certainly created some hazing which I then finished and smoothed out using a lighter abrasive polish...

I like to use the analogy of sanding wood. If you start with a pretty marred piece of wood, you'll need to use a pretty heavy grit sandpaper to fix it. So you use the heavy grit sandpaper and what are the results? The wood now has been eliminated of its nicks and marks, and the surface is even. However, the surface is also very rough. Your next step is to use a lighter grit sandpaper to smooth it out. Sometimes you have to use multiple grits of sandpaper in decreasing grit levels (and increasing sandpaper numbers!). These finishing steps smooth the surface to perfection. In paint abrading, the concept is pretty similar. The hazing you get from a heavy abrasive is similar to the rough wood surface after the heavy sandpaper. You simply need to do 1 or more finishing steps to clean it up. Yet, you needed to go that heavy in order to remove the deeper swirls/scratches. I'll say again though, many situations don't require such an aggressive approach! There's no need to remove more clearcoat than you need to.

I think it's important to note that there are other polishers out there which should be used with some caution, especially with a heavy abrasive polish. Most dangerous for the hobbyist detailer (and many pros as well!) is a high-speed polisher (aka circular or rotary polisher). Porter Cable makes one such polisher, and it should not be confused with the 2 DA Orbital models (7336SP & 7424). A high-speed polisher can be very dangerous and can burn through your paint in the blink of an eye, sometimes with even a very mild chemical. The polisher itself can be very aggressive, with or without the chemical. On the flip side, there are many other lesser premium brands of DA Orbital polishers that have the same safe mechanism as the Porter Cable DA Orbital, but they lack the torque required. Thus, in some cases, when used with an abrasive, this type of polisher can cause some light scratching because it cannot work the abrasives properly. This type is best for liquid wax application and/or wax removal.

Paint hardness/softness should also be considered. For example, manufacturer paint can vary in hardness. BMW paint is the softest out there. Despite the BMW/MINI relationship, MINI paint is much harder... in the moderate to hard end of the scale. There are harder paints out there but MINI paint is fairly hard. This means that it may take a little longer to work out scratches and swirls but the paint won't haze or cloud up as easily as, say, BMW paint would. Resprayed paint or body shop paint jobs are almost always softer than manufacturer paint.

As long as your not working on vintage paint or non-professional painter paint that may have been applied too thin, you should have plenty of clearcoat paint to work with. In other words, with typical manufacturer or professionaly applied paint, using the right tool (ie PC DA orbital) and an abrasive of almost any level, you don't have to worry about burning through your clearcoat or damaging your clearcoat. As I've already discussed above, you just might have to smooth out hazing you create if you use a really heavy abrasive.

As always, I've rambled on! I hope it was helpful though.

Oh, and as I finish typing I see that ImagoX also posted with some similar info and a good description of the differences in polishers and how polishes work. Sorry for the redundancy where we overlap!

-Heather