After just picking up my MC from the dealer and stumbling across this website my interest in detailing has renewed again. I'm used to Meguiars M7 and M26. When it's time to start over a good washing with Dawn and I'm ready for the clay bar.

I want to try another product. From all of the positive comments on this site (and Richards words of wisdom) it's going to be Prima. Earlier today I read a post in this forum that stated Dawn would not touch Epic. So...when it's time to start over with Prima (Amigo and Epic), how do you start over? What do you use to get back down to nothing on the paint?

 

??? Dawn is supposed to take off everything (or close to it). What it doesn't take off, the clay bar definitely will. The Meguiars professional blue mild clay was easy to work with and fast. I used Prima Slick with it but when I ran out switched to Meguires quick detailer and that worked just fine too.

I'm doing everything by hand and what I've found from doing another detail today (now my 3rd in a month) is that I really like the results that I get with Epic but it's not all that easy to put on by hand in a really nice light coat. I'm sure that I'd LOVE it with a future purchase of a PC though. So, I decided to change gears a bit while doing my friends Altima this weekend. We used Meguiars NXT 2 liquid (also available in paste and spray). It goes on really super easy in a light coat, and came off with a light touch as well - excellent results with less work (for me anyway) They've got a promo for a free container of their wash with it. When I someday break down and get a PC etc I'll go back to Epic.

 

Dawn will not remove Epic. I usually use a mix of water & alcohol (50/50) and spritz then wash & clay. If you are going to polish or use Amigo, that will remove Epic as well.
The key to applying Epic is thin. A little goes a long way, a very long way. Using a PC it is quite easy to get it thin, but by hand people usually put it on too thick. I use a skinny blue pad to do my hand work in the door jams, boot & bonnet areas. It takes nothing but a small dime sized dab to do a whole door jam. If you put it on too thick you will need to let it cure longer because the Epic underneath will not dry and you may see hazing when you wipe it off. No biggie though, let the haze cure again and wipe the rest off. Epic should come off very easy with little dusting.

 

in my experience Dawn will remove epic but it takes two washes to fully remove and the other thing you can use is rubbing alcohol at a dilution of 10:1. that will absolutely remove it. this will also dry out your black plastic bits so make sure you have some black wow to restore the trim.

 

Griot's PaintPrep removes Epic.

griotsgarage.com

 

So does P21S Paintworks Cleanser, but both products cost more than the alcohol/water mix.

 

Thanks for all of the suggestions. I think I'm going to try the P21S. I'll be sure to post thoughts and pics when I'm done.

 

I have both Paint Prep and P21s cleaners...they both work well, I think the P21s is a little easier to use IMO.

 

really? wat's so hard about wetting down your car, spraying
PaintPrep liberally, using a wet MF towel to massage the entire car (less
glass and seals not that it damages it), and hosing it off?

 

The whole "keep it damp for several minutes" thing puts me off. The P21S is just like...washing your car.

 

Another vote for P21S here.

Easy and effective. What more could one ask for. I know, Chuck, I know... cheaper.

 

Does EPIC degrade? I'm wondering why you would want to remove it and how you know it needs it?

 

I have to think it does. I've been reading the posts over the last two hours and it seems most folks believe Epic (depending on conditions of course) is good anywhere from 2 to 4 months. That's a big range. Imagine the differences between a garage queen and a daily driver like my MC.

Why would I remove it and how do you know? (Remember I'm new at this)....That question comes from a bit of time with Meguiars M7 and M26. After several weeks you begin to feel those bumps on the paint that will not wash or QD off and it's time to start from the beginning; don't want to wax or synthetic over junk.

On the topic of my original question; searching the forum in the last two hours found a post or two stating that a typical wash followed by Amigo will remove Epic. Lots of possibilities to try

 

As an FYI I asked this Epic question earlier this Spring and Heather from DP gave some good answers with different scenarios and varying degrees of OCD . Pretty much what people have been saying. Here's the thread. You have to scroll down to see what she said.
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...highlight=EPic

 

I think you're making some incorrect assumptions here.

First of all #7 is a pure polish that has no protection (Show Car Glaze). It's a glaze that adds shine and gloss but washes off unless sealed with a wax. #26 is Meguiar's High Tech Carnauba Wax which is a fancy term for a liquid wax that's not all that high tech, lol. It's also not known for its durability.

Epic is a synthetic polymer wax that should yield around 6 to 8 months of protection depending on environmental factors. Is the car garaged or does it sit outside everynight? How often is it washed? Etc.. Those are all factors that will reduce the longevity. Do you use Hydro on every wash? That will increase durability.

If you're feeling bumps on your paint after a few weeks it sounds like either your car isn't garaged or you live/work in an area with a lot of airborne contaminants.

Please show me the link that says a wash followed by Amigo removes Epic??

I have to differ with Minimaybee--Epic and any synthetic wax can be removed, or atleast degraded in part, enough to make a difference by several washings with Dawn. Just wash it with Dawn and watch the water beading after rinsing. Soap it up again, and rinse it off. Each time you repeat this, watch how the water beading changes. Is the lack of water beading a sure sign that the protection is gone?? Not necessarily but after 3 washings, the water will change from tight beads to huge random pools of water--the paint won't be slick anymore--in fact you can feel more friction under your wash mitt the more times you repeat the soaping process.

But as for the OP, you don't need to remove Epic to add more protection. Just clay the paint to remove the contaminants on the wax and rewax.

Richard

 

If I sit down by my car and use a toothpick I can get all the Epic off - just takes a while . I have had a pad with cured Epic and washed and washed with Dawn, no luck - soak with alcohol and bingo, new pad. So I guess my point is I like things to be efficient and inexpensive. If I can't get both I will go with efficient (I am an engineer after all ). Multiple washings with Dawn to remove Epic, or a single spritz with alcohol/water mix, your choice but mine is both efficient & cheap. And no, it does not damage your plastics or rubber, just removes any remaining treatment that then makes it look dried out.
PS - Don't let Epic cure in your pads.

 

lol

 

How in the world do you get every bit of Epic out of the pad ? I rinse mine and knead it for 5-10 minutes and I still can't get it all out. It's like some alien form of paste that wants to live in my LC black pad forever.

 

It is impossible; like removing every speck of dirt from your MINI. I saturate the pad with alcohol and then wash with Dawn. I guess I really don't care too much about getting the middle of the pad Epic-free; the surface and the outer third is my focus.

 

I'm back to this "why would you want to?" thing...

By using at (nearly) every wash, my Hydro/Epic combo seems to last "forever"... only reason I'd really ever need to apply Epic more than once would be because eventually I need to clay off bonded contaminants and polish out swirls- both of which will remove some or all of the Epic.

I don't really understand the whole need for Paint Prep, Dawn Washes, Alcohol wipedowns, etc. unless you're changing products / systems... seems to me that a wash/clay/polish/amigo/epic cycle will take off anything that needs to come off, and any epic that might possibly still be there when I'm done isn't bothering me...

Now, if I wanted to quit Prima and go Zaino or whatever, then I get it.

 

It just seems to me to get proper clay action, you would want everything stripped off. Perhaps I'm just being to OCD, no that couldn't be it.

 

I buy the OCD part. The other part, not so much.

 

Exactly! Well that's what I recommend anyways. If I'm going to be polishing with a PC, all the existing wax, regardless of the brand, will get obliterated, regardless of Dawn, etc..

I don't Dawn wash any car more than once for the same reason you mentioned. I'm not changing systems, nor do I need to strip the wax off and reapply. Most of the time, I'm waxing because I see swirls again, so hit it with the PC to get rid of them, the wax is gone, and then rewax. Simple. lol.

Richard

 

Simple, perhaps, but proper in OCD terms? Hardly.
I did find one soap that removes Epic (and most other things) completely. P21S Total Auto Wash will strip really well, but at $20 a little pricey when compared to alcohol. It does do a great job on tires though so may be justifiable.
I just feel better knowing that I'm shearing bonded contaminates at paint level vs wax level.
OG, use your fancy-smancy opticalscopeifier and prove to us once & for all that clay removes wax. And while you are at it prove that clay will remove the same crud if the wax is there or has been stripped. Help me stop obsessing if you please.

 

Why would he want to try to do that?

There's some battles you just don't fight.