$7/hr I think that last time I got paid that was in the mid 80's. That's ok, I don't want to work with people that need notes from HS to work or wear Depends all day.

 

Edge, double post man.

 

Ok, I tried to help you guys get into a GP

Jay, double post man.

 

I'd agree if a deposit is made for a car it's normally decided what the final price will be at that point.

If that wasn't discussed, and on paper, shame on the buyer.
If it was agreed and they tried to change it on delivery shame on the seller.

BUT,as for charging over MSRP being a 'crime' or something, move thy self to a communist country and drive a Lada comrade. Free market economies, capitalism, supply and demand. You (We) don't have to like it but the simple act of selling over MSRP (openly and honestly) is not 'wrong' in my opinion.

Try watching Barrett Jackson auctions sometimes. I understand those are collectibles vs new. But to me the difference in 'ethics' between selling a new limited production car over MSRP with full disclosure up front (not surprising at last second or bait and switch mind you) and a auction where the price escalates until you find out who wants it most is splitting hairs.

Car purchases are one of only a few most people make without a fixed visible purchase price being displayed. There is a price the dealer paid for the car, and a cost for them doing business. Beyond that they play games with incentives, messing with trade in values, talking payments instead of total cost... Adding overpriced clear guards, rust proofing, payment/employment insurance, and a host of other add ons. They're job is to seperate you from as much money as possible.

How many people add a few thousand dollars in cost to their car at the last second when the finance guy pitches all these add ons? Quite a few.

Then if you take the case of buying a USED car and add all the ambiguity (sp?) that brings... Well theres a reason used car salesmen aren't often held in the highest regard

 

But that is changing and more and more places are going the CARMAX route. The price is the price ... no negotations. No add-ons unless you want them. CARMAX dealers are starting to proliferate for exactly this reason. They give a discount under MSRP ... and MSRP is "suggested" anyway. They will show you the invoice ... the transaction is simple.

Over time, the American consumers will simply get fed up with the negotion crap and move more to the CARMAX model (IMHO).

BTW, if you've never been to a CARMAX lot, just take a look at their in-stock inventory ... its usually tremendous with lots of choices and they do tremendous business.

Another way is through something like United Buyers Service (UBS). The prices are prenegotiated for virtually everymodel sold in the US (not all models). You maybe able to negotiate lower prices but it might not be worth the hassle.

How many people add a few thousand dollars in cost to their car at the last second when the finance guy pitches all these add ons? Quite a few.

That depends truly about how experience the car buyer may be. If you just fell of a turnip truck, yeah, they might get you. But really, that's a good question. How many? Some of the stuff is actually reasonable depending upon what it is and the car. If you want Lojack, the price might be lower than buying it direct from Lojack. Depending upon the car, tire/wheel insurance may be a bargain. No ... I refused it for the MINI ... thought the guy nuts but I took it for the CS.... Same price but there is a huge difference between a $180 RF and a $350 Z rated tire and $1K wheels. It all depends. Now if you buy "undercoating" or "paint Protection" or "scotchguard" ... well they saw the turnip truck pulling out

 

Edge posted the same thing 2X. Open your

 

i was just picking on ya

 

In order to be legal a car contract, as in other contracts, must have CLEARLY defined each party's expectation, duties and responsability. When buying a MINI the future owner puts down all the modifications desidered then there is a final price. By accepting a deposit the dealership MUST honor the price presented at time of the contract, unless " price changes w/o prior notice" clause is present. By putting a deposit, the future car owner accepts the price and the terms of the contract. Since there is a deposit a clause must specify what happens to such deposit if the owner cancels the order.

In the case of TATE the $1,000 is given back to purchaser, however, when I bught my GP at the dealer in SC if I was going to change my mind I was going to lose $ 250.00 of my deposit. Both GP price and deposit / cancellation were clearily stated.

It is interesting as how many times I see people forgetting to read the terms of a contract then blame the other party(ies) for their own stupidity.!!!

 

When we bought our MINI from Sterling in 2002, we left a $500 deposit and the agreement was verbal that the price would be MSRP with no addons.
Perhaps because I already had a working relationship with Crystal.

 

Yeah, I've been having Internet issues lately, and that was a casualty. Fixed.I never said it was a crime. I said it was greedy and ethically wrong... and there's PLENTY of that here in the USA without need to suggest I move to a communist country, thank you very much. That suggestion was wholly inappropriate.

My point is that the markup, while it may be legal, is purely greedy. Yes, companies are in business to make money, but when they flog their customers in such a blatant manner, it reeks. It stinks, and I feel that my objection to it is valid. Let me put it this way - I would still take my car to MINI of Towson for service (based upon their excellent record), but I won't buy a car from them (even at MSRP) if the sales department has this attitude of taking advantage of their customers.

That is precisely why I said "new mass produced product", because classic vehicles that are WAY out of production, including finding parts, aren't even in the same ballpark. There's absolutely no comparison, IMO.

Again, bottom line: Does MINI of Towson have a right to do this? YES. Do we have to like it? NO. Is it appropriate to point out that it's greedy? YES.

Simple as that.That may be so... but MINI of Sterling has had a long-standing policy of not charging over MSRP... in fact, all of their GP allottment (7, I think!) were sold for MSRP. It's nice to know that.

 

I assume these are the same two GP's I first spoke of in a post back on 10/11. https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...97#post1172197 Here is what I knew at the time about the two GP's being offered.

I stopped by MINI of Towson here in Baltimore yesterday and noticed two just off the truck GP's on the lot. One of them, which is already claimed, was still wrapped in all its shipping clothes, while the other was ready to roll for test drives and has a dealer markup of $5000.00 over list.

The story I got was that MINI of Towson had an allotment of Seven GP's. Five of these were sold in the standard first come first served offering and the remaining two were set-asides for the dealer to offer as he wished.

At the time, the one car which was "ready to roll", clearly had the dealer markup displayed on the windshield sticker. Now, it appears, (though I'll have to roll by and doublecheck) the cars are still sitting on the lot unsold. If that is the case, then the market is doing its thing. It'll be up to MoT to decide how long they can let these cars sit unsold. If you wanted to pay MSRP for this limited, special edition car, then you should've lined up early with your deposit. Otherwise, I think it's a bit of wishful thinking to believe the market is going to feel sorry for those who "missed the boat" and now want to get on board for the same fare. You can just about bet that the folks who eventually buy these cars for the marked up price, probably won't even care that they've paid 15% over list. They'll just be happy they've got the disposable income to buy a really cool car. Stand by to see more of this when the non-spec'ed '07's first hit the lots.

There's always somebody with more money, or as I said earlier, are those for whom money really is no object - sad, but true.

 

Questions....

Does anyone know if the GP in question at MoT was one of their original allotment?

If the answer is no, then does anyone know how much it cost MoT?

If any of you purchased a Harley-Davidson between 1996 and 2001, then you should be aware that dealers move inventory between themselves. This is not done for goodwill and chuckles. The receiving dealer pays a premium to get it. maybe the person that ordered it couldn't qualify or backed out.

Unless we know all the facts, INCLUDING the dealers issues, then I maintain that it is inappropriate conduct, to publicly accuse them of being greedy or anything else. Get some info, substaniate your accusations with facts, not third party heresay, then say whatever you want. Its like politicians that accuse you of "giving aid and comfort to the enemy" if you don't agree with their policies. Just because you say it, doesn't mean its true.

I'm done, I quit, goodbye........

 

Wow ... I'm defending Edge's position on this

I don't think thats what he said. He said its legal. He's just pointing out HIS opinion that he thinks MOT is being greedy.

the fact that ppl with some money "may" buy them (I'm guessing they won't ... the close it becomes to the 07s, the less the interest) wasn't part of his point.

This is nothing ... take a look at what the Shelbys are going for over MSRP and its more than the cost of the GP.

 

I heard the new Vettes are way over MSRP too.

 

Not the C6s. But try to get a test drive in a Z06 and see how your treated

 

ya know, over MSRP or not...dealerships will either sell the cars or they won't. move on.

 

My view point is that if you don't like the deal, walk away.

 

I say "Deal or No Deal", "Is that your final answer?"

 

[quote=FeedBack;1199954]
"Unexpectedly getting slapped with the mark-up"; If I call from Hawaii and say to the MA, "Hey, I understand you have one of the only GP's left for sale in the country... How much is it?". The MA says $4x,xxx.xx, Out the door! I give him a credit card deposit and say I'll fly in next Monday. On Monday, I arrive and sit down to sign my papers... Do you think he's going to say at that point "it'll be 5,000 more than I told you on the phone?" I'd be the idiot for not getting the absolute cost upfront and shame on me! Is that what you are accusing them of????

[quote]

Well first of all, you are right that MINI dealers aren't as bad as Ford, etc. With MINI it's an unexpected $5k. With Ford it is $30k. I put down a deposit on an '07 Cobra GT500 last December. He mentioned a $5k premium and I told him I'd go no higher than $2k as I turned to walk out the door. He assured me he would come close. By the way, Dealers, including MINI, cannot write contracts on cars not yet in production. Hence, the only thing you are doing is placing a deposit to hold a place in line. When the car was finally ready for ordering specs last month, I was advised that the premium was at $30k. Sorry, but the $46k sticker already has the cool car premium factored in. No car with a 1970's suspension is worth $76k. Not too smart of Ford. Their dealers are getting rich and the Company is laying off 70,000 workers and going out of business. Oh well, I guess BMW is trying their hand at this same logic.

 

Ever since the beginning of time Vettes have sold at big premiums at the beginning of a new Corvette generation. Wait a year or two and they will be giving them away.

 

The GP's are still available. Maby there will be more than 415 , who knows . I was at a show today and a future owner of a new GP came up and introduced himself. He ordered his last week at Nick Alexander in L.A. These cars are NOT hard to come by. Maby its the wheels

 

It's called 'market value'. If someone will pay 5k more, then it's worth it. And given the exclusivity of GP's, someone will pay it.

 

You said it was "Disgusting" and "ethically wrong" as well as "Greedy". Part of that I disagree with, but to each his own of course. Greedy? Sure it is... I just felt "disgusting" and "ethically wrong" was a bit unfair, just my opinion. I don't quibble with your right to say it, just feel it's also my right to suggest that I think that's a bit harsh. Plenty of new cars in limited availabilty go for over MSRP. Not to point out the obvious which you and we all know, but the "S" stands for "suggested".

Dealers will add a big sum when they can get away with it. They'll also sell you something for a big discount when it's last years worst seller in a ugly color. Well, not a MINI. All MINI's are loved right? Is it unethical for us to take the $3000 off MSRP for the last 06 unpopular (insert brand other than MINI here) model in as gross color on a dealers lot? It goes both ways. Sometimes to the consumers benefit, sometimes the dealers.

The 'move' was meant as a joke comrade, shoulda put a smiley on it I guess, lighten up dude! Sorry I didn't make it clear it was meant as a funny. If I really thought that, I certainly wouldn't say it. So if I ever don't say it... That's another yolk son...

When I bought MY car at MOS, they sold for MSRP alright. I was told by a friend who went car shopping there a week after me that while you could get one at MSRP from MOS, that you HAD to buy at least $1500 worth of dealer added items or no go. I read similar accounts here. She walked feeling much as you do about Towson I'd guess. I can't personally vouch for this as I walked in with a dealer installed aero kit as part of my config from the beginning. I have no first hand experience with this. If true, it would have been a semi extra markup.

Chow's, I think there are a LOT of turnips unfortunately.

 

You might be on to something here. Perhaps Mini decided to make a few more.

 

I agree with the "free market" sentiments. If they can sell a MINI for $5,000 over MSRP, more power to em.

Of course, if you can find that same MINI at another dealer for MSRP and no markup, you'll buy from them instead and they'll probably get your service business and future car purchases as well.



I do agree that Americans are moving more towards "no negotiation" places like CarMax and Saturn (I assume Saturn still has that rule).

Last time I bought a Saturn (before my current MINI), I even went online and printed out the bluebook value for my tradein, knowing that I wouldn't accept any less than that for it. Before I'd even gotten to that point, the dealer showed me his own printout from the same website for the same dollar amount. Well! Okay then! Sold.

I don't want to go to Walmart and haggle over the price of a set of dishes and I don't want to haggle over car prices either. It's so much easier to just go somewhere else if I feel like I might be getting cheated, so I figure the burden is on the dealer: show me your best deal up front or I'll find a dealer who will.


So that would be my only caution to Towson. You might be getting an extra $5000 now at the expense of sending customers and repeat business to another MINI dealer, which will pay out a lot more over time. Stick your best foot forward and you might make less money now but you'll make a lot more money in the long run.

That's my 2 business cents.

Business cents. Eh? Eh? Get it? Cause it's... you know... oh, nevermind.