Hey guys,

Just wanted to get some opinion/feedback on my latest "ideas/dreams"...

First of all, I've only done 2 upgrades in terms of performance, and recently dyno'd my car:

108 hp at the wheels, ~123 total hp. That's with a cold air intake and sport exhaust. So in opinion, 2 engine mods to gain about 8hp over stock car is pretty decent/reasonable. But I was thinking about other mods:

Originally I was going to do just the exhaust headers (ALTA), change the throttle body (M7), and ECU upgrade.
In my own little calculations, I would be gaining 10-15hp from headers, and another ~5 from T.B., plus the ECU for an additional 5-10 or close.
So the car would be pulling just about 140 - 150hp. Pretty good.

Total cost for the set-up above: $1200 (approximately).

A good buddy of mine (also a shop owner and MINI enthusiast), recently sugested me to do the cylinder head, exhaust headers, and ECU only, leaving the T.B.stock. With that set-up, the numbers would be:
Cylinder Head: ~15-20hp, ECU about the same ~5-10, and headers same ~10-15hp.
So the car would be pulling just about 150 - 165hp.

Total cost for the set-up: $3410.

Obviouslly that is way too much money for an additional 10-15hp. A difference of over $2000!

So my question is, instead of the cylinder head (which would run me about 2500 installed with a new CAM and everything), what else could I do with the 2000 "extra", if I so chose to - to upgrade the engine even more after exhaust headers, throttle body, and ECU are done? Is there anything left??

I just saw a British website that sells a Turbo set-up for the Cooper, and the kit includes everything needed for installation... But that's another 3K +. Way out of my league...

In your honest opinion, if indeed I change everything in set-up 1, should I even do anything else?? Am I going crazy or just insanely addicted to this? I love modding cars and am talking my dad into changing everything in his Cooper... already got wheels.

I'm sorry for the long post...
Thank you guys for your input.
Leo.

PS: Car is a 2002 MINI Cooper (non S).

 

Don't turn your back on the cylinder head upgrade. It may be the most important piece to the puzzle for what you're after. FWIW, claimed HP figures are not additive for putting on aftermarket parts onto your car. There's many threads that already explain why.

 

Don't count on that. HP from mods isn't additive #1, #2, I have yet to see proof that the TB on the MC does anything over throttle response.


Again, don't count on it. AFAIR, the JCW MC's with the head, a race exhaust and ECU, were around 140.

The midlands transmission (2002-2004 model years) is notoriously problem plagued, especially when power is added. Turbo developments for the MC have been put off in the past because of strong concerns regarding the durability of the transmission to handle the power.

 

I'd like to know more about changing the throttle body. My driving is street only, much of it in the city. Is the TB a good mod for low end pickup and response, and are there any downsides?

 

MPG will drop, but if your into all these serious mods that shouldn't be a factor. Yes it'll help low-end response. With current engine mods, your car should be nice and smooth read the thread by a NAM member who did head work on his MC!!! Only in dreams for me!!!! Good luck on your mod quest!

 

Did you get a dyno pull before Mods? I would be interested to see pre-mod vs post mod comparison.

I understand that even with full JCW mods (both MC and MCS) the Diamler Chrysler head doesn't flow very well. Mismatched ports, rough ports... Another thing to consider is that the bottom end of the MC will not stand up to big power gains.

You have to remember that your MC already is a factory hot rod, Of the base MINI one.

 

So you want to spend $3000 to bring you MINI into the 150-160 hp range? Well turbo or (donning flame suit now) supercharger does just that for about that much money. But I also second Dave's math and dominicminicoopers about the head.

 

I will go ahead and don the nomex body suit.

For $3K more you could have had the MCS in the first place... and 185 HP to boot!

I once wanted to boost MIB to 150 hp, but well unless you intend on drag racing against say a MCS, it honestly isn't worth it. MIB hangs well with MCSs in the twisty stuff, despite not having the Sport Plus Suspension. And that is FAR MORE fun than straight line stuff IMHO.

Besides I would rather get the Sport Plus bits off of some MCS owner who has gone aftermarket or added JCW after purchase!

I agree that the Midlands tranny ['02-'04] isn't the best, the Getrag in the 05-6's is better but also a weak link at 150 hp.

 

Mind the transmission your car is an 02!!!!!!!

 

Where did you get this piece of data from?

 

White Roof Radio / Motoring file.

 

A good cylinder head and cam, bar none, offered the single most impressive gain on my Cooper... there's a thread in this forum about my work on my head. None of the other mods mentioned will net anywhere near the same level of gain - especially the TB and header.

My pre-head dyno - 110 whp/108 ft. lbs. with aFe intake, Borla catback, standard MTH. I am waiting to dyno the car now with the head and cam - but I can say there is a MAJOR difference with the head and cam. I fully expect to see 130-135 hp at the wheels.

I do have a 'Frankenheader' project sitting in my garage to go on the car - OEM header, pre-cat delete, and Random Technology metallic race cat. Once I get my car inspected, I'll be putting this on - but, I don't anticipate a major gain, at least nowhere near what I got from the head and cam... I'd guess maybe an additional 2-3 whp from the Frankenheader.

A really, really good port job on a head that's very thorough will make a dramatic difference, whereas the JCW head's CNC porting is ho-hum at best. I stuck with stock valves ('S' valves, though, which are Inconel and much better) and added the Schrick cam. I'm not convinced big valves will do much more for a Cooper than a good port/polish job on the head and a cam... Besides, once you toss on bigger valves, you may stress the valvetrain and should probably spend some money on the retainers and springs at that point (another $300 or more).

I spent $200 on a used Cooper S head... I bought $100 worth of porting/polishing materials. I spent another ~$250 for a head install kit, new head bolts, and head gasket from MINI Mania. You also need fresh coolant, and it's not a bad idea to do an oil change at the same time... At least 40 hours of effort later (my labor and a friend's), my head was born. It took another 12 hours for me to install it. My total out of pocket, with everything, was ~$700.

The heads themselves are expensive if you buy one... and then, you have to add in all the parts you need for install (head gasket, gasket kit, head bolts), and installation if you aren't going to do it yourself (7.5 hours of labor is what someone quoted me, ~$580). I was lucky enough to have someone that was willing to teach me to port/polish my own head. And, I did the install myself to save money, too....

So yeah, it's expensive... but, dear Lord, it's OH SO WORTH IT!!! Nothing, NOTHING else you can do to the Cooper, save a turbo or NOS, will make anywhere near the difference a ported/polished head and cam will make... And, I ain't about to hit the bottle or put any forced induction on my car.

 

scobib: That is my "car's paid off and out of warenty" project. Port, Polish, MTH, Exhust....

 

"I agree that the Midlands tranny ['02-'04] isn't the best, the Getrag in the 05-6's is better, but also a week link at 150 hp."

I went over this a few times I think this is how it was intended to read, implying that the Midlands was the weak link not the Getrag.

 

I meant it as I typed it. The midlands is the weakest transmission. The 05-06 5 speed Getrag is better. But it still is not up to the power than the Getrag 6 speed can take.

 

 

Isn't that HPA's MC? If so !!!!!

 

I would LOVE to eventually convert mine to individual throttle bodies...

 

prices for heads vary all over the place. But you want a very fast cooper, this is where the power is (same with the S, but we can just bolt on a different SC pully for a quick kick in the pants).

But really, create a target for your work, and work towards that. This avoids the Money Pit syndrome......

Also, I don't buy the throttle response hype on throttle bodies. We have drive by wire, and you go too big on the TB and you run into other issues. One being that in transients, the car may go out of closed loop control, and then you can run lean without programming to take care of it. Also, you want more response, just push the go peddal farther. FWIW, I tested three different ones on an S, stock, 60mm and 62mm, and didn't see any power gains at all.

Matt

 

I've never had a throttle response issue on my Cooper - now, on the Cooper S's I have driven, ugh. The throttle response on the S sucks, IMHO.

The throttle response is better with the head work and new cam, though. Freer revving, overall.

The individual throttle body mod would be fun just to do it...

 

Anyone know where I can get a good head for my Cooper?

I want to replace the stock head:

My mods:
Playmini exhaust
MTH header
K&N Typhoon
M7 Throttle body
Plugs/Wires

Head will be fitted at the same time with the Schrink cam.

Now I am looking for a new head but dont know which one and where to get it. Read something about stage 1 head, head with big valves... I dont know the differance and which I have to get.

Anyone can help me

 

New ones are very expensive. Over a grand.... One thing to do is look for a head on eBay. I bought a head from a JCW exchange for very little money ($300) that just had delivery miles on it. Then you choose your favorite vendor, and send it off for work! Some names that are on the top of my head...

M7
Webb Motorsports
Pilo
Endyn
Or go to your local head shop, it will be less, but they may not have Mini specific experience...

With a Cooper, I'm not sure you should worry about larger valves. Depends on your budget and use case. Call up the vendors and talk to them....

Matt

 

The problem is I am from Holland and I dont know any place here to get it done. So I was thinking to order 1 online from UK or US. They have a lot of good stores with it.
But also a lot of choice. So difficult for me to choose one

 

But I don't know them by name. Not my turf...

Check on Mini2....

Good luck....

Matt

 

There's always MTH in Germany...

In the UK:

GT Tuning
Playmini
Minispeed
MiniMania UK

There are others, too...