Resource:Münchner Technologie Zentrum

Looks like there could be more differences in the block other than the oil sprayers too.

 

interesting...

 

I figured it was the exhaust valves you were talking about. Standard valves are not as good with heat as the inconel valves, but they still work with low-mid boosted engines. I wouldn't recomend it for any one looking to push boost with any thing other then the M45 though.

The block it self really only needs to be modified to fit the oil sprayers, the rest of the S parts will bolt up.

 

maybe this has already been answered (it's hard to find information in here) but wouldn't using a Cooper S intake manifold severely harm performance on a stock N/A engine?

my reasoning is that the runners on the S intake are shorter which would allow less air into the engine than if it had longer runners like the plastic intake R50's came with.

if this is the case, does anyone know of a metal R50 intake manifold?

 

Your logic sounds on point...and I have not ever seen anything in the metal manifold category. Any reason in particular you are not wanting to use the OEM manifold?

I have always been interested in a larger bore throttle body, but wasn't sure how the drive by wire throttle system would effect such a thing.

What all have you done to tune your ride thus far? I apologize if these questions have been answered but my old computer won't let me navigate this page right now for some reason...

 

i'm interested in a metal intake manifold because they are easier to Port and polish (although any after market intake would probably already have this done) and because metal can be ceramic/powdercoated for heat soak resistance better than plastic.

currently my only engine mod is sprintbooster (arguably an engine mod) although in the spring i plan to start working up with an intake and full exhaust and move up from there.

 

Rusty, a manifold with short runners and a larger pleanum would give more top end power. A manifold with a small pleanum and long runners produses more low end torque. The plastic that makes up the OEM manifold is virtually impossible to heatsoak, plastic dosent absorb heat like aluminum. Running an aluminum manifold on your Cooper dosent mean it's going to heatsoak though, with no forced induction it stays pretty cool.

I would like to see what a S manifold would do on a NA motor but, you would need to switch the fuel rails, and make an adapter to bolt the throttlebody to the manifold. Its really not a whole hell of a lot of work, just a pain in the ***. You would also probably need to alter the tune to get any good results.

 

Great points! There is a MINI owner in South Carolina who runs an R53 intake manifold & TB but he hasn't posted here in a long time. I've never seen any details about it or how well it worked with a stock cam.
NickBMW recently fabricated a slick new aluminum manifold with runners longer than the R53 but shorter than the R50's. He's running a long duration cam (288*) over 12-1 compression & a ported head. He's got a project thread about it on one of the UK MINI forums.

There are some small improvements you can make to the stock plastic manifold. There's a quite a seam of plastic that sticks out into the port roughly two inches down the runners from the manifold to head flange. I was able to remove most of it with a long grinder. You can "port" plastic but you have to be very careful & there's no way you can port the whole length of the runners or extrude hone it like they do with long runner VW manifolds. I also found there is a mismatch between the manifold & head ports that can be easily corrected. Just don't touch the area where the injectors seat.

To help reflect heat you could always use some of the adhesive gold heat barrier. It's about $30 for two square feet but it works. There is a radiator hose that runs right underneath the runners so it might help. On one of the LT1 forums someone claims he was able to ceramic coat a thermoplastic manifold but I'm not that brave!

 

i would be interested to see how ceramic coated thermoplastic holds up. i would have thought that plastic being such a flexible material would make the ceramic want to crack easily.

 

I just read this thread after a long time.

My intake manifold :






R53 engine block (for the oil squirters), R53 balanced crankshaft, R53 weightwatched/balanced rods (+-0.5grams), RMW/Arias custom pistons 12:1 compression ratio.





Hybrid Cosworth cylinder head, stock size valves.





Cosworth valve springs.

I used a Newman 288/288 camshaft two weeks ago when the engine first started, but it wasn't working. The engine didn't idle at all (stalled) and the driveability up to 2k rpm was non exhistent. I took that cam out and install a Kent i had sitting around. Now the engine works perfectly and i am still running it in, but ibviously it's not gonna make any sugnificant power with a 260 cam. I am already looking at other options for a race cam, by the time the break in will be over i will have another cam.

 

Ofcourse there are much more details in the engine build that the general specs.

RMW oil pick up :


4-2-1 Piper exhaust manifold :



R50 specific larger injectors :





The intake manifold is made for an R53 throttle body, ASC works like stock.

 

wow.

 

There was a "hot air intake" project done a long time ago that basically said cold air intakes are hype. Research done by user "Ross-Tech" or something like that. Made a lot of people mad since some were buying these $300 intakes and Ross simply attached a filter to the TB for $15.

IMO, shorter runners won't cause the issues that a too open head or the wrong cam would. It would exaggerate a pre-existing issue but wouldn't be the sole culprit.

 

Have you ever experimented with various runner lengths to see the outcome ? If yes, i'd like to know. If no, you may be surprised when you do....

 

so are you telling me that I'll see bigger gains on experimenting with runner length than cams and heads? Or telling me that when I do a cam and head (both likely to happen before runner changes anyhow) that driveability suffers only when I do something to the runners? Not understanding what it is your trying to start here.

 

You will see good gains, only when you'll aim on a specific rpm range on everything you will do. So, there's no point in going to short intake runners, if you are going to get a mild street cam for example. If you combine a high flow head, with a large duration camshaft, and the correct length (shorter) runners the gains will be amazing. But the midrange will hurt a lot, so will the driveability because of the cam.
Unfortunately with n/a engines you can't have everything like you can with boosted engines. And from all the changes you can do, the most difficult one, and the one that will gain the most from any other mod is the intake manifold, but it's a science on it's own. My intake manifold works extremely well above 6000rpm. But think, i have a built engine that i am going to rev to 7700-8100, so i will have enough range, on a stock bottom end R50, you can't run a high rev limit so a short runner intake manifold isn't going to do anything. N/a tuning is hard...

 

slightly adjusted
but so true, yet so difficult to get across.

I think we're on the same page. - Being realistic to your intentions of the build so you don't complain about your drivability.

 

Yeap, i am realistic, and honest too about how everything works. At the moment, i am trying to set up a proper ignition advance timing, but the damn bkr6eix plugs cuase me trouble. I must install those 8s i have lying around. Compression ratio brings problems... and smiles if everything's done as it should.

 

what are your goals for the project power wise? I'm assuming this is a track car?

 

Anything over 160bhp will be ok for a start, as i have to experiment with a lot of things to come to an "optimum" setup. I would say the goal is 170-175bhp. (this is +50% increase, it doesn't come that easy).

It's a weekend car and occasional track day car, but not a pure track car.

 

Do you have a build thread somewhere? Curious to see how it goes. I was once interested in a NA MCS beater.

 

I've got one in the RMW forum, and one in minitorque, but i'll make one here sometime, so you'll know what's going on, good or bad

 

Has anyone logged or seen actual fuel pressure data for the R50 at anything over an idle? The regulator at the rail is rated at 3.5 bar & VDO rates the fuel pump at 4.6 bar. The R53 also uses a 3.5 bar regulator but the R53 "green-top" pump is rated at 5.1 bar. I think there is a slightly higher rated VAG or Porsche regulator out there that would be a drop in replacement. Perhaps it could be used with the stock R50 pump. Info, ideas?

 

The Mini engine is new to me so I hope I can use tried and trusted HC pistons, cam, ECU , header and intake. I'm have limited options due to the car with run in N2 rally class so what they can't see will be the limit. haha

I currently run a Suzuki Swift GTI 1.3L twin cam(faster then a stock Cooper ) with all the above which makes 125BHP in 1850lbs car.

I'm going to replace the Swift the Mini so I'm excited to be playing with this car.