Has anyone done the EVOtech ECU upgrade on thier just-a-cooper. They are claiming 140hp (with thier stage 2 kit which includes intake, exhaust and ECU upgrade) not sure if I belive it, but since I have a K&N short ram intake and Borla exhaust I'm considering thier ECU upgrade. I had e-mailed them with some questions a few weeks back and have gotten no response. GIAC's story is yes we have it but not for your cooper (wrong software version). I'm not considering MTH so the EVOtech upgrade (through Mini-Madness) is my only hope (which hopefully will be fulfilled @ AMVIV V). If anyone has $.02 I could use it (I need better low end torque and HP along with throttle response) and have heard this upgrade will do just that (as well as throw the fuel efficiency out the window).

 

if its any good let me know. I would mind one of those 2

 

I had it along w/ the K&N Short Ram, OBX Header, and Remus Exhaust (just about the same that you have) and I loved it! I had it done on the IB MC that is in my SIG.
It was very noticeable at the low end and also at the top.
I highly recommend the EvoTech from Madness
Motor On!

 

On the mini madness website it has different hp for stages
does that increase with different programings of the EvoTech
or does it increase with other mods you have on the MINI??

 

The Reflashing program will depend on which mods you have....
(mind you, the HP stated is at the Crank not wheels)
Call George at (888) 783-6294
He can answer questions better than I can.
Motor On!

 

Hey GC...we put down somewhere at 128-129HP....so 140 isnt a far goal for an ECU tune..

 

140hp with just software, intake and exhaust is not possible.
I know a guy who had the following mods:

-software (from Kelleners)
-BMC CDA installed in one of the best ways I've seen (Kelleners setup)
-cat. (from a German tuner)
-cams (from Kelleners)
-polished heads (by Kelleners)
-gasoline cooling
-exhaust

He ended up with 144hp.
So, there is no way you can get 140hp with just software, open intake and exhaust.
Not even if you dyno with the hood open.
Unless of course the dyno is WAY too optimistic.

 

Here's his setup:

Power (flywheel)


Torque


His modifications:
Software, carbon intake (modified), cat., cams, gasoline cooling, exhaust, polished cilinder heads.

Here are some pics of his setup:








Link to the article (in Dutch) : http://www.r53.nl/one_kelleners/index.php

 

The highest hp at the flywheel that I saw from a Cooper with custom software, closed carbon intake and full exhaust was 128hp (REAL hp).
Sure, if he had gone on the dyno with his hood open, he might have seen 132/133hp.
Or if the dyno was optimistic he might have seen +130hp too.

He had custom software, Pipercross Viper and full Supersprint exhaust (including headers, cat.).
His results were 128hp and 170Nm.

Here's his dyno sheet:



The two lines that you see, is before the software was altered for his headers and cat. and after.
He already had a software upgrade, but it wasn't customized for the new parts in the exhaust (blue line), now it is (red line).

Don't forget guys, tuners can claim many things and they can even give you a dyno sheet claiming that you have the hp they promised (seen it happen many times).

All I can say is, don't believe everything you read/see.

 

With those modes he should see 150+. What kind of a dyno was used here? These was a discussion a few months ago on the R53 thread about low dyno numbers and what causes bad results. Temperature, humidity, type of dyno, quality of gas, altitude, all that plays in. Ther average WHP number for an R50 with bolt ons (intake, exhaust, maybe header) is 118-125 at the wheels. I don't see any reason why a well tuned R50 with quality parts wouldn't see 140HP.

 

Wrong.
150hp is the limit.
The highest I've seen was 150hp and that was with a similar mod list (compared to the guy with 144hp).

All his (guy with 144hp) modifications were done by Kelleners.
These guys are German professionals who know what they are doing.
They are also known for tuning the BMW M3, M5 and M6 models.
Trust me, every BMW/MINI fanatic knows Kelleners and their reputation.

These are several different dyno's actually.
Maha, Superflow, Bosch, .......

I know what can cause bad dyno results and so do those guys.
No offense, but in most cases, dyno results are WAY too optimistic and not the other way around.

What's that you say ?
118-125hp at the wheels with only software, intake, full exhaust ?
On a Cooper non S ?
You don't really believe that do you ?

Taking into account that the Mini Coopers have a drivetrain loss of about 20%, that means that with just software, intake and full exhaust these guys are making between 140hp and 150hp.
I'm sorry but that has got to be a joke.

This guy (the one with 128hp at the flywheel) had CUSTOM software and a Pipercross Viper intake.
On top of that he had a FULL Supersprint exhaust (headers, cat. midpipe,exhaust).
He saw 128hp and 170Nm.
Now, I'm sure that 130hp with the same setup is possible.
But 140 or even 150hp is NOT gonna happen.

To get a Cooper to 145/150hp, this is what you need:
-custom software
-custom cold air intake
-full exhaust (headers, cat., rear exhaust)
-polished heads
-cams
-gasoline cooling
-new clutch (the guy with 144hp had to change it because the stock one is too weak)
-iridium spark plug (because of the cams)

 

Lets run the list here:
1. 20% is through an automatic trans. A manual trans car is only 10-15%. Where you get 20% is beyond me.
2. If it was a Mustang dyno, there's your answer. They read super low.
3. I've had my car for 2 years and been here about 15 months. I've done my homework many times over on the parts I've bought and never heard of Kelleners.
4. No one will see 118-125 hp with tuning and bolt ons? Maybe you don't remember this post from a ways back:
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...light=R50+dyno

 

20% is what I've seen from several dyno sessions with several Mini's !
I'm sorry but 10-15% is NOT realistic at all.
The numbers are between 16% and 22%, 20% being the most common.

It wasn't a Mustang dyno.
Sorry, wrong again.

You have never heard of Kelleners and claim to have done you homework.
Well, that says it all doesn't it.

That's at the flywheel.
You claim the same power at the wheels.
Understand the difference ?
I can make a Mini produce 1000hp on any dyno.
Just change the correction numbers and some input data.
Get the picture ???

 

First of all, you need to quit being an *******. Second, 10-15% IS the average. Open up any magazine or ask any one person whose run a dyno for more than 5 goddamn minutes and they will say 20% is through an automatic trans. Yes I understand the power difference. I've spent 4 months learning just how to set up a dyno much less use one. Here's a quote I found from someone on here whose not a ********:

 

My info is based on FACTS.
And I'm sorry if I sound like a d***head, but I'm sick and tired of people who make these unrealistic claims.
And no 10-15% is NOT the average.
I've seen so many Mini's dyno that I know this is absolute nonsense.

You have studied dyno's yet you make a simple mistake between hp at the flywheel and at the wheels ?
Sorry, but give me a break

To go into that post, headers only give a noticable torque gain and little to no hp.
There was a guy on our forum who produced 1hp more with his Cooper S GP with Supersprint headers, but a lot more torque.
Cat. is what gives a noticable gain in hp (together with software).

 

http://www.superstang.com/horsepower.htm#Proof1
Every magazine I've read, every report I've seen, every dyno run I've experienced, says the same thing. 10-15% for manual, 18-25% for auto and 25%+ for AWD. I KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHP AND CRANK HP. Its not hard to understand. Here's another because I know you're gonna call me a liar again unless I post a link:
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ad.php?t=94374
Yeah, I don't happen to see Kelleners on the NAM Vendor listing so ya know...
and another:
http://www.funtrivia.com/askft/Question64568.html

 

And here are some actual dyno sheets of owners who have manuals and have seen between 15% and 22%:











I have about 20 more if you want.

On top of that, I've been on a dyno myself 7 times so I know what I'm talking about.
I've probably seen about 20 Mini's dyno.

So, what's your EXPERIENCE ?
Not what you read in a magazine, but experience ?

 

Try 2 years in a technical training school with nationally recognized ASE certified master techs. How about I'm ASE certified. 2 teachers who've spent 20+ years doing dyno testing, both crank and whp testing. Wow, 7 times. That must make you Mr. Dyno Wizard. You know how many I've done? Probably 2-3 times that many. I've tuned a 600+hp BBC on the dyno. I spent 8 weeks just getting that one right. I've set up and run everything from a stock VW Jetta, to a heavily modded Civic Si to SS Camaros. What happened to your 20%? I thought 20% was average. I guess 15-20 must be more like it. And as far as you "seeing dyno runs", have you actually seen the power being lost? How do you know how much is being made at the crank unless it's been both in and out of the car?
http://forum.mazda6club.com/index.php?showtopic=8415

 

This is what you call proof ?

In other words, you have NO experience.
Ever heard of the difference between theory and practice ?
Guess not.
The info on that link is not false, but every car is different.
Keep that in mind.

Apparently it is, since I always state the difference in my posts and you did not seem to get it at first.

And all the good tuners and vendors are on that list and the rest isn't huh

This discussion is over as far as I'm concerned.

 

Wow, the cafeïne must have kicked in huh.

First of all, I've been on a dyno 7 times with my Mini.
I didn't state what other cars I have and how many times I've been on a dyno with them now did I ?
Secondly, I've spent many hours/days with several tuners talking and testing the drivetrain losses, so sorry no cigar for you there.

Yes, I have SEEN the losses on SEVERAL dynos, as I said before mr. dyno expert

I said that MOST Coopers have a drivetrain loss which is around 20%.
You were talking about averages, so I said that the averages that I have seen are between 15/16% and 22%.
NOT 10% and 15%.

This is starting to get fun.

 

What I wrote in an earlier post in this thread:

20% is what I've seen from several dyno sessions with several Mini's !
I'm sorry but 10-15% is NOT realistic at all.
The numbers are between 16% and 22%, 20% being the most common.

 

I'm done here. I'm not getting any deeper into a shoving match over the internet because thats like racing a Honda. You may win but in the end you lose. There's care for people like you out there. They call them Volkswagons. They know everything and you can't prove them wrong. Welcome to the NAM.

 

Wow, you must be the number 1 tuning guru in the whole world huh.

 

Same to you buddy.

Thanks for the welcome

 

I guess we agree to disagree.

Let's end this discussion, back on topic.

Friendly regards

Der Abt