well after the fiasco with the coolant system and the head gasket i need guages so i can see what the hell is goin on with the engine...i was lookin at the smith's guages but im not sure how accurate they are...is there another type of guage out there you all use..mechanical perferred since i dont think the electrical system can handle electronic guages

i need the following: Voltimeter/Water Temp/Oil Pressure

 

AutoMeter makes everything you'd ever want in a lower cost option .... only issue will be the 'pickup' or sensor but that's a small issue to overcome. They are readily available all over the place. I use an AutoMeter electronic tach
http://www.autometer.com/
SMITHS however would maintain OEM look .....

 

ive seen some auto meter ones that look really close to oem but my whole thing is reliability...ive heard the smiths tach is really bouncy

 

I installed AutoMeter gauges to replace my stock gauges ... all but the speedo. Here's a picture I took after installation.

http://desertwave.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=5746

The gauges are:
electronic water temp (uses sender in stock location).
mechanical oil pressure (uses sender in stock location).
electronic transmission temp
electronic fuel level
electronic volt meter.

Since then I installed an AutoMeter electronic tach. It's a dash mount, not an in-dash tach. I can take a picture of the dash with the tach installed if you want me to.

Good luck,
Jeff

 

that is awesome...what series of auto meter are those guages? can u show me where u tapped in to get the oil pressure and water temp?

 

The AutoMeter gauges I used are from the 'Traditional' family of gauges. I believe I bought them at Summit Racing. You can go to www.summitracing.com and search for 'autometer traditional' to see all of the gauges in that family.

I'm attaching a couple of pictures. The first has the oil pressure sender (left) and engine coolant temperature sender (right) locations circled. The second picture shows the pedestal mounted tach.

Cheers,
Jeff

 

awesome stuff so did u use the sensors that came with the guages and those fit those stock locations or did u get a different type of sensor...also where did u run the voltimeter to?the battery or the alternator?sry for all the questions ive never dealt with a car like this guage wise and its a rather simple wiring set up compared to my R53

 

The AutoMeter water temp and oil temp gauges came with sending units, and I used them instead of the original because they need to be matched with the gauges. For a short time, I ran the Smiths ECT sending unit and it was nearly pegged. Once I swapped in the AutoMeter sending unit, the gauge worked as expected. IIRC the water temp sending unit threaded in without issue, and the oil pressure fitting was a different thread pitch, making it a little more difficult to get plumbed correctly.

The two gauges in the main gauge pod are a drop-in fit for the original Smiths gauges, and are the 2-1/16" size. The voltmeter is effectively connected to the switched 12V coming from the ignition switch. I say effetively because my Mini has a Painless wiring harness with fuse block, so it has a dedicated voltmeter signal wire.

You will want to use switched battery voltage for the electrical power to new gauges (unless they're Smiths gauges). The output of the voltage regulator in the speedometer is used to power the electronic gauges for the stock Mini configuration. I would suggest bypassing the voltage regulator and using switched battery power directly to aftermarket gauges. Just my $0.02

Good luck!
Jeff

 

was the thread pitch on the oil pressure sensor off by alot or did it not cross thread?is there a switched battery wire in the stock harness or does one have to be created?

 

It might help to know that the harness in a classic didn't have unique colored wires for every circuit like today's cars. Lucas even had somewhat of a standard - or so I've learned from Classic Motorsports:

"....and those of you that speak Lucas know that the colors all mean something: White is switched (on when the key is on), unfused; green is switched, fused; brown is unswitched (always on), unfused; and purple is unswitched, fused."


****
Back to the original question tho - how accurate are Smith's? I dunno. But the temp is only labeled H - L any way so what's it really telling you? On my ships we had significant gauges recalibrated annually....an expensive process. In OC I find a gauge not useful for the actual reading (other than the tach and speedo) but rather for seeing if I'm normal or out of normal.

My water temp is usually a little below middle .... when it gets significantly beyond middle I get concerned (is there a reason like it is 101 outside and I'm in stop and go). Similarly I know what my oil pres' has been since I bought it and when I see significant fluxuations I get wondering. But because someone says I should have 60 lbs and I see 55 I'm not presently concerned.

So far as what you need - your call but the classic 3 dial centre pod has the speedo in the centre and oil pressure and water temp. Once you go beyond the classic pod, mounting the lil buggers becomes the cosmetic issue. I too use a dash mounted tach - I have a wood dash cover so it wouldn't fit on the shelf



Any black face with white lettering is gonna look very close to OEM.

 

Yup, it's bouncy, just like the car!

 

I only had a problem getting the oil pressure fitting into the block. It _seemed_ that the threads were not SAE and were not metric. I tried and tried to find thread pitch/count information for the oil pressure sender to no avail. In the end, I took a gamble and theaded the sender in to the block without issue. Note that this was right before I had the engine completely rebuilt, so I was not concerned with metal debris going into the engine internals. Water coolant temp sensor was no issue.

Capt_bj is spot on with the wire color convention used. When in doubt, put an inline blade fuse holder between the source and your accessory if you are not absolutely sure it's already fused. It's a < $10 part, and a cabin electrical fire will ruin your day - best not to chance it.

Cheers,
Jeff

 

the only prob is i have no guages in the car beyond the speedo and a tach that isnt wired up so im starting from scratch on the guages

 

but you can find the 3 dial pod, and the taps for the oil pres' and water temp are already there in the block so it is a straightforward upgrade. you can buy the entire smith's setup. or just the pod from MOSS for example
(I didn't say it was inexpensive) part 115-444, or 115-422

vs deciding to add additional new dials where you get to fabricate your own new dash panel, or buy something other than stock. doable, but more involved

 

I have a related question. I currently have water temp, oil pressure, voltage and this worthless fuel efficiency gauge (which never got wired up) in my dash. The tach is separate on the shelf. They are all Smith's. Does anybody have any suggestions for replacing the fuel efficiency gauge with something more useful? I'd like to keep it in the Smith family, so to speak. Thanks!

 

Sorry, I missed the fact that you didn't already have water temp and oil pressure gauges. In addition to mounting new gauges, you will also need to wire up the gauges to have the backlight lamps turn on and off with the headlight switch. There are typically 4 wires for electronic gauges; switched 12V, ground, headlight switch, and signal. Similar for the oil pressure gauge but it will not have the signal wire. Just keep that in mind when you have to wire up the new gauges.

Jeff

 

Quick answer - SMITH things you can pick up easily from MOSS

you say you have voltage - you could add amps,or oil temp - or there's a clock that is the same size.

 

after looking at the tach i can see that black face/white numbers/orange dial is a easy match to the autometer guages and quite honestly the am ones are much more accurate and reliable...and when it comes to extra mount points thats ok i can get creative lol

 

Thanks, Capt.BJ. I was considering the oil temp gauge or the clock. Would the clock draw from the battery all the time? This car is put in storage for the winter on a trickle charger, so I might not want a clock drawing from the battery continuously. I could just disconnect the battery, if I went with the clock, I guess. Thanks again for the suggestions.

 

would it be worth it to upgrade to the 70amp alternator?

 

Yes the clock would draw from the bat' all the time .... a VERY minimal draw. If concerned, install it on the switched side vs the unswitched side (a clock would normally be on the unswitched side cuz you want the time to stay correct huh? Worried about battery drain ... put it on the switched side but know you need to reset the clock every drive)

OTOH - I find the worse thing for my classic 2b SITTING. I get the puppy out, warm and circulate its juices and stretch its legs every coupla weeks.

 

Agreed-the worst thing for a car is to sit for long periods of time. Unfortunately, over the winter, I really can't get it on the road without having it get sprayed with salt, sand and whatever else they throw on the roads these days, plus I don't have snow tires for it. I do start it up every couple of weeks, though. I think I would disconnect the battery between start ups, and then reset the clock in the spring when it goes back on the road. I wouldn't want to have to reset the clock each time I drive the car. It's hard enough for me to remember to pull the choke out when starting it. My other MINI's don't have those things!

 

while an auto battery that sits for 6 months might lose enuf charge to not crank the engine .... if one like that can't run a clock I'd replace the battery!

A radio with a digital clock inside is drawing similar 'dark current'

starting a stored car is a good thing to do ... but note that at idle many alternators don't produce sufficient juice to charge the battery. You need to get the RPM UP to kick into charging mode. (not a Mini thing ... a car thing). We have similar issues with our "zoo train" which seldom runs beyond idle speed. We found an alternator good for low RPM applications.

For the folks I house-sit for I simply recommend they let me drive the car an hour or two a month rather than 'idle' in the garage.

Just wish they had a Fer' or a Lotus rather than a Honda or a Toy'

 

I didn't know that alternators don't recharge the battery at idle speeds. How high do you need to rev to recharge?

 

I can't give you a hard number here. It's all about the AMPS being produced. You "need 'em all". And a low rpm don't get there. To support my position in the days of Florida car inspections they would check headlight intensity. When your lights failed they'd tell you to sit on the gas a bit and rev the engine up ... more juice equaled a brighter light.

From Eastwood's ad for a new GM replacement alternator (105 amp):

"A must have .... {if} your original 64 amp unit is not fully charging the battery at low rpm."