I've been trying to sell my 04 VW Touareg privately, but as my delivery on the ALL4 approaches, I may have to trade it in to the mini dealer. Are the Trade in Values on Kelley Blue Book accurate? Can I really expect the dealer to take it in the ball park of what I see on KBB?
2nd Gear
Usually they say they'll give you KBB "fair" condition price, even if your car has below average milage on it and it is in excellent condition. You can expect to be low-balled since they know once your car arrives you will be anxious to receive it. At least that's been my experience(s). Let me know how it goes for you.
You may want to check with Car Max, but they have also been known to low-ball.
You may want to check with Car Max, but they have also been known to low-ball.
In my experience, the KBB, et al, are best used as a general guide when triangulating a price for a used vehicle.
Think of the trade-in process as a word problem with dozens of variables. Everything from the car you're buying to the time of month that you're initiating the deal come into play, to say nothing about the actual condition of your vehicle and its options (which are only of value to certain buyers, sadly, not all).
The key is understanding that nothing is in ink...until it's in ink on the contract. I wouldn't hesitate to talk with your MINI dealer to get an idea of what they value your trade in at, then look elsewhere, such as what private parties are getting on Craigslist, etc.
I mention this because I've been very surprised on occasion what a dealer has "paid" for my trade-in, and other times I've walked away with a new car but sold my prospective trade-in on my own because they couldn't offer me what I wanted. You won't know until you have it "appraised" by the dealer.
If you need a smooth transaction, and don't want to sell it yourself, then you might have to "write off" some of the value to convenience. For some that's the most attractive way to go.
Good luck!
Think of the trade-in process as a word problem with dozens of variables. Everything from the car you're buying to the time of month that you're initiating the deal come into play, to say nothing about the actual condition of your vehicle and its options (which are only of value to certain buyers, sadly, not all).
The key is understanding that nothing is in ink...until it's in ink on the contract. I wouldn't hesitate to talk with your MINI dealer to get an idea of what they value your trade in at, then look elsewhere, such as what private parties are getting on Craigslist, etc.
I mention this because I've been very surprised on occasion what a dealer has "paid" for my trade-in, and other times I've walked away with a new car but sold my prospective trade-in on my own because they couldn't offer me what I wanted. You won't know until you have it "appraised" by the dealer.
If you need a smooth transaction, and don't want to sell it yourself, then you might have to "write off" some of the value to convenience. For some that's the most attractive way to go.
Good luck!
3rd Gear
One other option is a Car Max quote. If you have a car Max close by, they will give you a quote for them to buy the car. You can use that 'local market' indicator price to base your other sell options. In Texas the main benefit of trading with the selling Dealer is that the trade in $ allowance is not taxed. That tax difference is a consideration in the final cost.
3rd Gear
It all depends on the deal that you can work. If you walk in with CASH in hand and are willing to compromise slightly on the options on the car you can get an awesome deal.
Since you have ordered the car the dealer has it over your head he knows you want the exact car in question. He knows that you also are in a time crunch to sell your car. So he has you over a barrel. My best advice is that if you pay CASH they might be more willing got deal.
With the last three cars I have bought I have gotten the KBB Excellent Condition price for my trade in and also gotten the car for below MSRP. It is a matter of buying on the last day of the month, paying cash, and being willing to not buy the exact car you want (if it has been sitting on the lot for awhile they will jump at an offer).
Since you have ordered the car the dealer has it over your head he knows you want the exact car in question. He knows that you also are in a time crunch to sell your car. So he has you over a barrel. My best advice is that if you pay CASH they might be more willing got deal.
With the last three cars I have bought I have gotten the KBB Excellent Condition price for my trade in and also gotten the car for below MSRP. It is a matter of buying on the last day of the month, paying cash, and being willing to not buy the exact car you want (if it has been sitting on the lot for awhile they will jump at an offer).
Quote:
Since you have ordered the car the dealer has it over your head he knows you want the exact car in question. He knows that you also are in a time crunch to sell your car. So he has you over a barrel. My best advice is that if you pay CASH they might be more willing got deal.
With the last three cars I have bought I have gotten the KBB Excellent Condition price for my trade in and also gotten the car for below MSRP. It is a matter of buying on the last day of the month, paying cash, and being willing to not buy the exact car you want (if it has been sitting on the lot for awhile they will jump at an offer).
I disagree that paying cash puts you in a stronger position. Dealers can make profit on almost any financing deal so in fact there is more fat in a deal that includes financing. Whether you pay cash or finance, the dealer still gets paid 100% either from you or from a bank. No difference to the dealer.Originally Posted by bumgardnern
It all depends on the deal that you can work. If you walk in with CASH in hand and are willing to compromise slightly on the options on the car you can get an awesome deal. Since you have ordered the car the dealer has it over your head he knows you want the exact car in question. He knows that you also are in a time crunch to sell your car. So he has you over a barrel. My best advice is that if you pay CASH they might be more willing got deal.
With the last three cars I have bought I have gotten the KBB Excellent Condition price for my trade in and also gotten the car for below MSRP. It is a matter of buying on the last day of the month, paying cash, and being willing to not buy the exact car you want (if it has been sitting on the lot for awhile they will jump at an offer).
Cash does obviate the need for credit checks and mitigates all risks associated with financing, but that is it.
In fact, when I last paid cash for a vehicle the dealer urged me to finance it with them and pay it off in 3 months as they would make some margin on the financing and sweeten what was a pretty skinny deal.
3rd Gear
My local credit union treats 90 day loans as cash, with no interest, if you have a history with them. I tell then in advance that I intend to clear the title with in 90 days and they do the rest with the dealer.
I had a pretty good offer from car max when selling my car. Ultimately sold privately for a good deal more but as another poster said it would be a good triangulation point. Mini dealers offered me quite a bit less than carmax and lower than kbb
To set price I also used auto trader and cars.com listings
My wife has a toureg and I know they are not exactly used car darlings so good luck
To set price I also used auto trader and cars.com listings
My wife has a toureg and I know they are not exactly used car darlings so good luck
6th Gear
Note on CarMax - their quotes expire. We used a very good quote from them to negotiate a deal, then decided to wait. When we were sure we were ready to buy, we got a second quote to renegotiate with. As the car had already been evaluated once, they dropped the quote by several thousand. Luckily, we had a history with the dealer (BMW) and they agreed to used the expired quote for the trade in value.
3rd Gear
Trading in a car has variables as the above posters noted. Some key things to know. First, if the car you're trading is native to that dealership (IE trade a mini to a mini dealer, or at the very worst, trade in a car that the mini dealer is married to - in my town, BMW and Mini are same dealership so trade a bmw) then you'll get better value. If your dealer's network of marques do not match up with your trade, it's very likely your car is going to be wholesaled or put on auction. Many dealers today are connected to a live 24-hour used car network. When you bring your car and they pop in the VIN, the system auto shops to see if anyone is interested. These bids are then the sell price the dealer will get.
Obviously they want to make a profit right? So they will knock off some thousands off that number before presenting you with the damages. Usually it costs a dealer around $1k (if memory serves right) in soft costs and sometimes parts and pieces to make a car saleable. But they still want something for themselves.
As for KBB - it's useless for anything but retail sales figures. Dealers used to use the NADA Black Book. Something you couldn't just find and use as a consumer. The black book pulled numbers from completed auctions and was updated regularly like a mini magazine. Those days are mostly done thanks to the realtime auction marketplace.
If you want a true idea of what you might get for your car, figure out how to see Manheim Auto Auction data (or have a dealer get you access). Crafty web ways may get you in
This will show you what cars are going for and what you're up against. No matter what, be prepared to be insulted. My car is worth retail $54k-56k and I'm getting $42k trade-in offers. Seriously? Go #$&! yourselves!
As for that insulting offer, something you should consider. Your state may allow tax credits. What does this mean? Well simple math, let's say you have a 10% sales tax. Let's say the car you're buying is $40k and the car you're trading in is worth $20k.
If you were to sell your car and not trade in, you'd be taxed $40k + 10% (4000) for a total out the door price of $44k
If you trade in, however, you'd be taxed on the net cash transaction - $40k - 20k (trade) = 20k x 10% = 2K. They then add that 2k to the 40k for a total out the door of $42k. So if you were to sell to a private party for $2k more (in this example), you're better off just tossing the keys to the dealer. Less headaches and you net the same. From here you can do your own math to see if it makes sense.
I hope this babble helps. Been buying, selling and leasing lots of cars for the last 15 years.
P
Obviously they want to make a profit right? So they will knock off some thousands off that number before presenting you with the damages. Usually it costs a dealer around $1k (if memory serves right) in soft costs and sometimes parts and pieces to make a car saleable. But they still want something for themselves.
As for KBB - it's useless for anything but retail sales figures. Dealers used to use the NADA Black Book. Something you couldn't just find and use as a consumer. The black book pulled numbers from completed auctions and was updated regularly like a mini magazine. Those days are mostly done thanks to the realtime auction marketplace.
If you want a true idea of what you might get for your car, figure out how to see Manheim Auto Auction data (or have a dealer get you access). Crafty web ways may get you in
This will show you what cars are going for and what you're up against. No matter what, be prepared to be insulted. My car is worth retail $54k-56k and I'm getting $42k trade-in offers. Seriously? Go #$&! yourselves! As for that insulting offer, something you should consider. Your state may allow tax credits. What does this mean? Well simple math, let's say you have a 10% sales tax. Let's say the car you're buying is $40k and the car you're trading in is worth $20k.
If you were to sell your car and not trade in, you'd be taxed $40k + 10% (4000) for a total out the door price of $44k
If you trade in, however, you'd be taxed on the net cash transaction - $40k - 20k (trade) = 20k x 10% = 2K. They then add that 2k to the 40k for a total out the door of $42k. So if you were to sell to a private party for $2k more (in this example), you're better off just tossing the keys to the dealer. Less headaches and you net the same. From here you can do your own math to see if it makes sense.
I hope this babble helps. Been buying, selling and leasing lots of cars for the last 15 years.
P
5th Gear
Quote:
Obviously they want to make a profit right? So they will knock off some thousands off that number before presenting you with the damages. Usually it costs a dealer around $1k (if memory serves right) in soft costs and sometimes parts and pieces to make a car saleable. But they still want something for themselves.
As for KBB - it's useless for anything but retail sales figures. Dealers used to use the NADA Black Book. Something you couldn't just find and use as a consumer. The black book pulled numbers from completed auctions and was updated regularly like a mini magazine. Those days are mostly done thanks to the realtime auction marketplace.
If you want a true idea of what you might get for your car, figure out how to see Manheim Auto Auction data (or have a dealer get you access). Crafty web ways may get you in This will show you what cars are going for and what you're up against. No matter what, be prepared to be insulted. My car is worth retail $54k-56k and I'm getting $42k trade-in offers. Seriously? Go #$&! yourselves!
As for that insulting offer, something you should consider. Your state may allow tax credits. What does this mean? Well simple math, let's say you have a 10% sales tax. Let's say the car you're buying is $40k and the car you're trading in is worth $20k.
If you were to sell your car and not trade in, you'd be taxed $40k + 10% (4000) for a total out the door price of $44k
If you trade in, however, you'd be taxed on the net cash transaction - $40k - 20k (trade) = 20k x 10% = 2K. They then add that 2k to the 40k for a total out the door of $42k. So if you were to sell to a private party for $2k more (in this example), you're better off just tossing the keys to the dealer. Less headaches and you net the same. From here you can do your own math to see if it makes sense.
I hope this babble helps. Been buying, selling and leasing lots of cars for the last 15 years.
P
That's great info! Thanks Peeti!Originally Posted by peeti
Trading in a car has variables as the above posters noted. Some key things to know. First, if the car you're trading is native to that dealership (IE trade a mini to a mini dealer, or at the very worst, trade in a car that the mini dealer is married to - in my town, BMW and Mini are same dealership so trade a bmw) then you'll get better value. If your dealer's network of marques do not match up with your trade, it's very likely your car is going to be wholesaled or put on auction. Many dealers today are connected to a live 24-hour used car network. When you bring your car and they pop in the VIN, the system auto shops to see if anyone is interested. These bids are then the sell price the dealer will get. Obviously they want to make a profit right? So they will knock off some thousands off that number before presenting you with the damages. Usually it costs a dealer around $1k (if memory serves right) in soft costs and sometimes parts and pieces to make a car saleable. But they still want something for themselves.
As for KBB - it's useless for anything but retail sales figures. Dealers used to use the NADA Black Book. Something you couldn't just find and use as a consumer. The black book pulled numbers from completed auctions and was updated regularly like a mini magazine. Those days are mostly done thanks to the realtime auction marketplace.
If you want a true idea of what you might get for your car, figure out how to see Manheim Auto Auction data (or have a dealer get you access). Crafty web ways may get you in
This will show you what cars are going for and what you're up against. No matter what, be prepared to be insulted. My car is worth retail $54k-56k and I'm getting $42k trade-in offers. Seriously? Go #$&! yourselves! As for that insulting offer, something you should consider. Your state may allow tax credits. What does this mean? Well simple math, let's say you have a 10% sales tax. Let's say the car you're buying is $40k and the car you're trading in is worth $20k.
If you were to sell your car and not trade in, you'd be taxed $40k + 10% (4000) for a total out the door price of $44k
If you trade in, however, you'd be taxed on the net cash transaction - $40k - 20k (trade) = 20k x 10% = 2K. They then add that 2k to the 40k for a total out the door of $42k. So if you were to sell to a private party for $2k more (in this example), you're better off just tossing the keys to the dealer. Less headaches and you net the same. From here you can do your own math to see if it makes sense.
I hope this babble helps. Been buying, selling and leasing lots of cars for the last 15 years.
P
6th Gear
Quote:
This is it. Manheim Auto Auction is the key ingredient for probably 99% of trade-in offers and it varies from day to day and region to region. Good luck.Originally Posted by peeti
If you want a true idea of what you might get for your car, figure out how to see Manheim Auto Auction data (or have a dealer get you access).
4th Gear
Exactly what I came across when I traded in my Touareg...and I also went to carmax prior to trying to trade it at Subaru. I believe the offered value was about $2k LESS than the kbb trade-in value. 
but about $500 higher than the carmax value. Hope that helps...that's a tough spot to be in. They are SUCH nicely appointed vehicles. You need to find a friend to sell it to instead who already appreciates its greatness!
but about $500 higher than the carmax value. Hope that helps...that's a tough spot to be in. They are SUCH nicely appointed vehicles. You need to find a friend to sell it to instead who already appreciates its greatness!
Thanks for the ideas everyone...I have had it on Criagslist and Autotrader for a week now with no action. I am aggressively dropping the price every couple of days. I am going to drive over the mountains to Portland Friday and get a trade in idea from the Rasmussen Mini used car manager and then I will have a couple more weeks to try to sell it privately. I am also going to approach the local VW dealership in Bend as the car is more valuable in our snowy environment here and I have had a pretty good relationship with them since they are a VW, Audi and BMW dealership and I was an Audi owner before.
I don't have to trade it in to come up with the cash to buy the Countryman, but I also don't want to deal with the headache of continuing to try to sell the Touareg when I want to be out having fun in the Mini.
Thanks again,
Kenny
I don't have to trade it in to come up with the cash to buy the Countryman, but I also don't want to deal with the headache of continuing to try to sell the Touareg when I want to be out having fun in the Mini.
Thanks again,
Kenny
Why are people "insulted" when a dealer offers them less than they think their car is worth?
A car is worth what it will sell for, not a dime more....the dealer is offering what it's worth to him, if that's not enough for you to make the deal then you need to find another way to sell your car - that's all. I don't think there's any insult implied, just a hard nosed attempt at setting a value that makes sense....
The dealer is in business to make a profit, just like everyone else. If he is going to buy your car, recon it, advertise it, do all the legwork to sell it and warranty it he has to buy it for a price that will allow him to do all these things and still make a profit. That means he's not going to offer retail for it.
And how does the average layman determine what his car is worth in order to be insulted by the dealer offer in the first place?
He may know what Joe Blow sold his for last week, but that does not in any way determine what his is worth today. The only somewhat accurate way is to do as other suggested, and look at auction results, and even those can be misleading.
Your car is worth what you can sell it for, and you'll get considerably less selling it to the dealer as a trade in than if you retail it - that's a given.
The fact that the OP is has dropped his price weekly with no action on his vehicle tells me his original idea of it's value was off, and lends credence to the dealer's assessment of the current market value.
A car is worth what it will sell for, not a dime more....the dealer is offering what it's worth to him, if that's not enough for you to make the deal then you need to find another way to sell your car - that's all. I don't think there's any insult implied, just a hard nosed attempt at setting a value that makes sense....
The dealer is in business to make a profit, just like everyone else. If he is going to buy your car, recon it, advertise it, do all the legwork to sell it and warranty it he has to buy it for a price that will allow him to do all these things and still make a profit. That means he's not going to offer retail for it.
And how does the average layman determine what his car is worth in order to be insulted by the dealer offer in the first place?
He may know what Joe Blow sold his for last week, but that does not in any way determine what his is worth today. The only somewhat accurate way is to do as other suggested, and look at auction results, and even those can be misleading.
Your car is worth what you can sell it for, and you'll get considerably less selling it to the dealer as a trade in than if you retail it - that's a given.
The fact that the OP is has dropped his price weekly with no action on his vehicle tells me his original idea of it's value was off, and lends credence to the dealer's assessment of the current market value.
1st Gear
Beautiful car and I love my Touareg too. However they don't have a very good re-sale value. It will be hard for you to get what you want for. Consider taking a hit about 2-3k or maybe more on what is posted on auto-trader is something that will help you move the car.
Just to give you an idea on the value of mine in Canada if I trade it is...
2004 Touareg V6, Premim, Nav, mileages 106K (about 60k converted to miles) = 10-11K
Anyhow, good luck!!
Just to give you an idea on the value of mine in Canada if I trade it is...
2004 Touareg V6, Premim, Nav, mileages 106K (about 60k converted to miles) = 10-11K
Anyhow, good luck!!
5th Gear
While I agree with MINIdave, I do have to also mention that some times a dealer is planning on simply auctioning off your used car. That means he was to make a profit, the auction house wants to make a profit, and the winning bidder (typically a used car only lot) wants to re-sell at a profit.
Take a realistic retail price, and subtract three profits, usually leaves very little left.
Take a realistic retail price, and subtract three profits, usually leaves very little left.
2nd Gear
Quote:
Wow, Moe-jiller, I live in Texas, but I forgot that point. Thanks, I'll keep it in mind.Originally Posted by moe-jiller
One other option is a Car Max quote. If you have a car Max close by, they will give you a quote for them to buy the car. You can use that 'local market' indicator price to base your other sell options. In Texas the main benefit of trading with the selling Dealer is that the trade in $ allowance is not taxed. That tax difference is a consideration in the final cost.
3rd Gear
Quote:
Kenny
Kenny:Originally Posted by OregonMountainMan
I have had it on Criagslist and Autotrader for a week now with no action.Kenny
I know you're not supposed to do this, but I suggest posting your car on Craigslist in Bend, Portland, Boise & Eastern Oregon. If you post a link to it here I'd be glad to take a look & see if I can help.
Cheers,
Paul.