--I think some of us are a little brutal on BRG Mini. I mean I don't read EVERY single part of my owners manual and I don't expect every Mini owner to do so either. I'm sure she is CAPABLE of doing so, but I think our enthusiasm is getting the better of us. This forum is meant for us to HELP each other. Not crucify people for their mistakes or for having a design flaw.

Which is exactly what this sounds like. I really believe her Mini dealership should cover the engine replacement or repair and this should be a recall item. If she really did run through 4" of water then Mini really needs to take a look at this and take steps to fix it. Whether it be better splash panels or a more water repellent/draining intake, Mini does need to take a look at this. I'm wondering how common is this especially if it's a British car, where their headquarters has rain that comes down in the form of roaming waterfalls.

If I were her I would talk to Mini headquarters and if I was not given satisfaction I would gather all the other people who have had a flooded engine and file a class action lawsuit.

If that's what it takes for Mini to make our cars better, then so be it.

Good luck BRG Mini, I hope either your dealership or Mini does you right. If not, give em hell.

--pyratio

 

#1 - somehow I highly HIGHLY doubt it was TRUELY 4" of water. For 'firemen to be pushing cars' I invision a LOT more water with many vehicles having problems - this does NOT strike me a design flaw - what are you saying - they ALL had design flaws that day? Why don't we hear about this happengin to everyone else that lives in areas of extreme rain? Hell, I know I've gone through deeper than 4" of water here in Clearwater this spring - funny, neither my car nor any other local Minis have sucked in water. I guess the design flaw is selective.


The attitude of 'nothing is my fault' is so sickeningly typical of Americans these days. For the love of pete stand up and take RESPONSABILITY for your own actions.

#2 - yeah, first and only post. I'm not surprised, the forum is not a bunch of dumb sheep giving her bitching and moaning support, rather discussion and frank, real advice. Oh well. Maybe we'll hear back from her, maybe not. Maybe the next post will be about the design flaw of the sunroof, and how it had to be closed not to let rain inside.

To The Old Man -

Don't quote me out of context - you know I didn't say 'who cares what you did' it was STRICTLY in reference to your experience in a JEEP - which is 100% irrelavent to conditions in a Mini - don't try to make thinly veiled attempts to twist my intent. If you only like to read through rose colored glasses, I'm sure there is a browser plugin for it somewhere. Until you find it, I guess you'll just have to deal with reading the truth from me.

 

For me, at least, this is the statement that leads me to take more of a SOL stance than a sympathetic one. This has happened to plenty of members here who haven't come on the forums and said that they think they are entitled to a new car. This is a crappy situation and I do feel for her, but she's trying to deny any responsibility for what happened, and that just rubs me the wrong way. You can kill just about any car in this way if you drive through a deep enough puddle, and the MINI is (surprise!) more susceptible to this kind of hazard than cars that are higher off the ground.

 

edit: nevermind not adding to this conversation, the attitude and general direction of this thread wen to hell!!

 

You're saying that if there's any water at all on the road, you drive walking speed? Remind me not to get behind you when it's drizzling out...

That doesn't say "drive walking speed through water, regardless of how deep it is, even if it's only 1/16th of an inch deep" which is what you're saying it says. According to the wording in the manual, you should have no mechanical worries about driving 30 mph through 4 inches of water. Hydroplaning should be your bigger worry.




Anyway, the harder part of this may be proving how deep the water was. If it does go to court, I'd head to the fire department that might have sent those guys out and ask them if they remember your car and how deep the water was at the time. If they say "about a foot" then you're screwed. If they say "definately under a foot" then you have credible witnesses.

 

I unfortunately just had to go through a bit of water (about 5 inches) post a quick rain storm last week.. went very slow.... despited annoyed suv's behind me, and the car was fine.... I'd get a letter from the fire chief stating the approximate level of water in inches on the road... and if it is was more like 6+ inches, you may have learned a very hard lesson... but this to, will pass....

sorry to hear of your downed MINI....

 

Am i the only person who's thinking of the pictures someone took of all the minis driving through that stream and some people ended up having to replace their engines etc?

Thats the first thing i thought of when i saw her post.

 

The quote from the mini manual is not "lawyer bs" - it's just bad writing. A good lawyer would be clear about basic operating instructions. Something like: "The air intake on this car is located at Z inches from the ground, right above the bumper. It is very important not to allow water to be sucked in through the intake becaue it will damage your engine. Therefore, do not drive through standing water higher than x inches, and drive at less than 5 miles per hour through water higher than y inches."

If the mini's requirements are more restrictive than other cars, then the issue should be highlighted and not burried in the manual. Maybe part of the intial dealer review when the car is delivered.

I've certainly never driven any car through water approaching 12 inches high, but I drive through 3-5 inches of water all the time. Puddles and potholes are a few inches, as are low-lying street areas after a rain storm. I expect my mini not to lose an engine during normal driving in rainy weather. If it does, it should be covered by the warranty. The warranty does not cover abuse, but it should cover damage in all normal driving situations.

We don't know what the true facts are regarding the poster. Maybe she was driving fast through more than a foot of water, in which case maybe mini has a defense that her use of the car was not normal. If MINI wants to deny a claim, they should establish that the activity was not covered under warranty. The facts stated by the poster are very suspicious - the dealer telling her she'd need a new engine before inspecting the car suggests that this is a common problem that they've seen before. If it is a common problem, it is either a design defect or something that should have been called to our attention when we bought the car. The dealer did not suggest why it was not covered under warranty. I don't think you'd be so quick to pony up several thousand for a new engine on a recent car if you were not knowingly engaging in risky behavior with your car.

 

--Yep everything is special about our Mini's even our problems. You see when we reach a certain rpm and the air temperature hits below 50 degrees fahrenheit a valve opens and the engine just FUBARS itself. This is the new variable valve defect feature we have. Heeheehee!

I'd like to know if it was a Cooper or Cooper S? Automatic or manual? Are there components that make one Cooper more susceptible to engine flooding than others? I mean I for one would like Mini to make their cars as bulletproof as possible so all our cars benefit. I'll buy the roof mounted intake snorkel if that's what it takes. Cool, it would look like that ridiculous green eclipse in the Fast and the Furry-us.

Yes yes we are lazy irresponsible Americans. You're not from France by any chance are you? Sorry, bygones. I agree. People all too often want to blame everyone else for their troubles. It's not our jobs to console them or give them the years of therapy they need. But this forum is supposed to be fun and informative isn't it? Not cold and elitist. If we wanted that, we should run over to the Evo dealerships and sign up for a fascist makeover.

Mini's are supposed to be fun right? So can we lighten up and all be friends? Please? I'll show you where all the twisty roads are in Hawaii. C'mon pretty please?

--pyratio

 

HELL NO - I'm a Motor City man, transplanted to Florida 20 years ago I saw this attitude previlent in the ghetto peeps around Detroit...now down here I see it's popular with the white trash as well...so sad.

 

--Yeah I agree that it is a sad way to be. I mean all these people suing McDonalds cuz they're fat and all those other preposterous lawsuits is really over doing it. People should take more responsibility for what happens in their lives. I can understand your outrage at their attitude.

I've seen a couple divorces happen because one partner wasn't happy with their lives and decided to blame it all on the other half. Luckily the other half was smart enough to walk away at that point. People who make themselves out to be victims for life just suck the life out of you if you humor them for too long.

I think Americans in general have a negative cynical outlook on life. Every time I watch a so called "reality" show I want to smack the cast. What did my Marine Corp friends used to say? "QUIT YOUR WHINING!" I know a few Marine Corp seargeants that I think should host an MTV "getting made" show.

I respect people who pick themselves up after a fall, dust themselves off and head straight for their dreams. I don't like whiners or cynics...unless they're funny. I also respect fighters who fight for their rights and beliefs.

So if it is shown that our airboxes are like straws poked into puddles, then I hope Mini and BMW R&D a fix. If they don't do it on their own then they should be made to do so. We're Mini owners, we should demand more.

Hey it doesn't rain too much in Hawaii, but when it does we flood bad. I don't want my poor Mini to stall and float away.

--pyratio

 

"but i didn't know that inhaling burning products would cause me cancer"...maybe that's why it burned inside the first few times i smoked. can't stand people who sue b/c of their own choices and habits....

 

Geez guys!! Yes, I did stop checking this message board because I expected all these Mini Cooper lovers to be nicer then they are over at the Straight Dope. I certainly got my comeuppance!

Okay, I have a Mini Cooper standard. Not an S. I wanted an S but the husband was involved in the purchase. He hates to spend any money!

I must point out that I wasn't driving along, saw a lot of water and thought--hey, I think I'll drive through this! It had rained hard, but I have never seen anything like this in real life. (Certainly minor compared to LA, MI & AL right now.) Suddenly I was in water. I probably drove through it wrong. I was trying to keep going.

The insurance adjuster called a little while ago and said that the air filter is soaked and water is everywhere. He said I had to get the new engine and that the check would be in the mail in three days. I called the service department and authorized the work. I said, "How long do you think it will take, about a week?" He said probably.

Right now I'm driving a 12-year-old Toyota Camry Wagon with 213,000 miles on it. What a great car! Unfortunately, it got old. I wish they were still making them because I need a good car to hold kayaks, a canoe and at least one bike. The Mini just can't handle it!

Thanks for your suggestions. After I get the car back, with the owner's manual in the glovebox, I might get around to reading every word in it. Maybe I'll write a letter, maybe I won't.

It's raining right now. I'm staying home.

 

KRG:

Sounds like you can use those kayaks right where you are!

I appreciate your posting about your situation. We get street flooding around here in the winter and in my old car I never thought twice about driving on through. It's good to know that I might need to be more careful in the MINI.

I hope your car comes back good as new. :smile:

 

Sorry, it's a tough crowd sometimes...

#1: To all those defending the practice of driving through 4" of water, I say you're insane. 4" is enough to bury your foot, and part of your ankle. I seriously doubt you've ever "driven" through 4" and suffered no damage for it. You certainly didn't drive 25mph+ without trouble. The rims touch the water at that depth, and your tires (obviously) cease to push the water through their special grooves. You are fording at 4". Heck, it's hard to keep a MINI moving through 2" of standing water: the engine pushes back like a beast.

#2: BRG MINI, if you find yourself actually fording through deep water, do it very slowly, in first gear, and keep your revs way up (over 4K is best). You'll have to burn some of your clutch off, but this will keep water from coming back up through the exhaust.

#3: For those of you worrying about the specific wording of the owner's manual: get over it. It's wording. It doesn't tell you not to hit a wall in the manual, yet you wouldn't expect MINI to cover the damages for that, would you?

#4: BRG MINI, welcome to NAM, and good luck with your repairs.

#5: The air intake on the Cooper sits right behind the upper grill, and goes down into a deep box. To have drowned the engine, the box must have been filled. We're talking more than a half-gallon of water having gone in the intake before the engine seized. The car was moving too quickly through water that was too deep. It's awfully difficult to subjectively measure depth.

 

I live in Tucson where it rains, on average, less than 12" total per year. When it rains, however, streets fill almost instantly with water....4"? could be. Who knows...when the entire street is covered with water, who knows what dips exist that you don't see. So this is one of the very first things I took up with my dealer before buying the car. You could be on a street with decent drainage and have to go down a street that doesn't ...and THEN what? You can't even pull over without risking having to drive in 4-6" of water...walking speed (that's less than 4mph, folks! with air conditioning on, the MINI would stall just from driving so slowly!) I think MINI should give some thought to where they put the intake. If other low cars can make it...my husband's Acura, my friend's Spyder, Miatas, Vettes, etc., then MINI should be able to resolve this. I know I'm not in a SUV, but I should be able to drive down a city street without fear of drowning.

We have "The Dumb Motorist Law" here whereby the fire department sends you a bill if you have driven through a wash or area blocked off because the water is too deep. I know not to drive through rivers or running washes. But if every other car can make it and you are on a city street that is not located in the American Southeast during a hurricane, something is wrong with the MINI design IMHO.

 

I agree with you Lareina, and since posting at the top of this thread I did do a search on Mini2 and there are many posts/threads about this happening to people.

I cannot say what depth of water the thread starter actually went through but there does seem to be an inordinate amount of Coopers that have succumbed to water ingestion. A foot of water is one thing, but really, several inches of water can often be found on streets and even highways in many places in the rainy season (anyone here in Norcal drive 101 near Larkspur in the winter?), and it is certainly an amount a normal passenger car should be able to traverse w/o braking hard and coming to total crawling pace to cross without inducing hydrolock. There are many cars lower then the Mini that have no problem with it ( I have two actually) and I can tell you that even the lowered 3 series with a Dinan CAI at the level of the front bumper has not had a problem with the flooded highways and associated mega water splashing over the years. I know better then to floor the throttle while going through the water, but I can, along with the other cars, manage it and maintain a safe speed for the circumstances.

There does seem to be a design issue for so many people to have reported on this. In comparison the CAI on my 3 series is steeply angled upwards and thus can handle normal driving in heavy wet weather conditions, however, based on the remarks about the Mini here and elsewhere, it is indicated that the intake is not like that and is fairly easy to flood. There are many BMWs with similar CAIs like mine out in the world, and although there is a small % of people who have hydrolocked, usually from gassing it when the water is at or past the center of the wheel with the CAI sumerged, those incidences seem proportionally much much lower then the Mini. And before people get all into that subject remember that the CAI I am talking about is a performance mod whereas the Minis here are stock and should be better designed for typical variable weather driving.

I do agree that common sense has to be used when it comes to standing water, and I am as careful as possible myself - but don't just automatically blame the poster and assume they are in the wrong based on your assumption that there is no design issue with the Mini, because there just might be. It wouldn't be the first design based problem BMW has had and it won't be the last.

 

eVal, design "issue" or not, I can't possibly imagine why MINI should be expected to cover hydrolocking under the factory warranty. I'm not attacking the original poster, but I do believe this to be driver error. I've driven my MINI through a hurricane, with 2" of standing water at over 50mph. It sucked. I feared for my life. But I recognized the responsibility for what I was doing was my own, and that any damage that occurred to the car was my problem.

Maybe there is a design flaw. If there is, we can all rest easy knowing that our recall notice is on the way, and that the problem will be resolved in the '07's. For now, though, let's take our lumps and accept a little responsibility for destroying our cars.

 

I am a Firefighter and I know we would stop to push a motorist off the road if the automobile stopped working. I'm sure that other people would too. Who knows what the fire department was doing there. I bet not just sitting there waiting for cars to get stuck and push them out! What has happened to NAM??? We used to be so friendly. I know...MCO turned to NAM and we all got pissed off. I understand that the engine injesting water would be frustrating, but now a lesson is learned. Driving through puddles several inches deep is alot different than driving on a road that looks like a river of the same depth. Driving through water of more than a couple of inches deep can cause alot mnore problems than engine failures. Electrical wiring is not waterproof, just water resistant. Brake rotors can warp. Water can get into areas where there is grease and prematurely wear those out also. Cars have very precious parts in them and should be treated that way. Like I said, there is a lesson learned. Good luck with the new engine!

 

are you saying that water ingestion occurred and hydrolock happened on your vehicle??

 

you think it was ghetto then come back and visit now, i mean even the mayor is corrupt.

 

LOl, that's pretty funny, a recall notice If you know BMW you are aware that they really try to avoid those; to get design problems addressed many people need to report it, complain and maybe there will be a TSB. (The thing about a TSB, is that you have to fit the correct 'customer complaint' to have it done, and past the warranty you are out of luck.) And I'm sorry to be the one to tell you, but a new model year does not mean that troublesome parts/issues get off the cars; and additionaly, new ones car arise as new stuff is tried out in the mix.

In many cases BMW blames the customer if they can until the pattern strong enough of repairs and complaints emerges (and or the consumer protection groups become involved). A few examples: exploding S54 engines with bad bearing and production tolerances issues, chronically breaking E46 sunroof covers, 3 series (E30/E36/E46) and Z series subframe failures due to design and connection weaknesses, diff mount cracks/failures from poor design/materials, Mini windshield problems due to materials and design , window regulators failing again and again, E46 control arms failing, Mini control arms cracking, and, well that's off the top of my head, I don't have any more time right now to remember or look into more.

There can be a design flaw at the heart of an issue and it can only be determined if the number of occurances is reviewed with that in mind so I encourage people to explore that and not just rely on what BMW/MINI has to say about it. The S54 engine failures would never have been exposed as a design/production problem as it was without the power of the internet/communications allowing people to exchange information and see the pattern of issues - it would have continued as each isolated customer took the blame for the failure and 'overrevving' at each dealership's word for who knows how long (and plenty on the boards did blame them too, like you, thinking they must have done something wrong and why should it be covered under warranty).

Of course plenty can be a person's fault, just do not automatically place blame and shut your mind to the other possibilities thinking "a recall notice is on the way". Just because it did not happen to you doesn'd mean its all fine, you may just be luckier.

 

NO - he's saying it DIDN'T happen to him, even under those circumstances...

 

That's what I've been hearing...my friends all hate life up there right now. Most have been going through jobs like water as companies lay-off and go under. Those that have steady work just hate living in the shiznit day to day.

 

Midlands transmissions on 5-speed MINIs failing in very cold weather due to cracking of subpar rubber seals.