Greetings all.

I found NAM through a google search for Mini forums. I am in the market for a new car and will make my purchase in a few months(as long as my current car sells by then).

I have a 2003 VW Passat which the wife and I are keeping and a 2000 Mitsubishi Galant which we are trying to unload right now. The three cars I have narrowed down my purchase to are the base automatic Mini Cooper, the automatic Cooper S and the automatic Jetta GLI.

Yes I know, I know, I should buy a manual transmission. I simply never could get the hang of it and didn't enjoy it. For those out there who don't believe this spare me a tongue lashing...I have fun driving an automatic.

All that said, I can afford a loaded base Cooper, a Cooper S with xenons & multicontrol steering wheel or a fully loaded GLI. All 3 cars meet my safety requirements. The Coopers are obviously smaller than the GLI but since we have the Passat we have a vehicle that comfortable holds 4 + cargo. So size isn't so much an issue.

Performance is a big issue for me. I love the 1.8T engine in the VW. I plan to test drive a Cooper this weekend or next to get a feel for it. I have heard from lots of people including a MINI dealer that the base Cooper is sluggish off the line but good once you are up to speed. How sluggish is the Cooper?

Ok, before I ramble any further I'd like to ask you Cooper veterans to tell me your opinion....Loaded Cooper, Cooper S unloaded, or the GLI. Of course state why you would pick one over the other.

Appreciate it all, thanks.

Matthew

 

Welcome Matthew,

If performance is key, get the MCS by all means. That said, nobody has experience with the Automatic tranny in the MCS, as it isn't available until early '05. We know that the CVT tranny in the MC will not be used in the MCS, so there is a dearth of information refarding your inquiry at this time. Try a CVT MC, and also at least go for a ride in a MCS with the 6-spd. I think you will find the extra power in the MCS intoxicating, like the rest of us. Who knows, it might even stimulate you to become a standard shift man.

 

Hey Matthew.

Welcome to NAM!

Seems to me that a fully loaded Jetta GLI with automatic costs about $26,000, and you say that you can afford that.

For $26,000, you can get an MCS with a bunch of extras. I just priced out an MCS with the Premium and Sport packages, and automatic transmission, and it was under $26,000. So I think you can probably work out a very nice MCS for the same price as the fully loaded GLI that you are considering.

Now.. as for the choice between a Cooper and an S, you said that performance is an issue for you. If that is the case, I am sure that most people here will tell you to go with the S.

Good luck with your decision!

 

If, as you say, performance is an important issue, then go straight to an MCS. As much as I love my Cooper and recommend it heartily to many potential motorers, those with an eye towards performance should be looking at Ss. The '05 MCS I drove recently was simply awesome....and you can tweak it from there.

I'll be keeping my Cooper however, for a variety of reasons.

Welcome to NAM!!!

 

jetta is a nice car, but it can't compare to a MINI...

resale value
supercharger (instant power better for twisties)
go-kart handling
BMW engineering
style
self-leveling xenons
36,000 mile free maintenance (including oil)
custom-made
paddle shifters on automatic S
rain-sensing wipers (hands/mind focus on driving, not wiping)
can u fit a 32" tv in a jetta? didn't think so (unless hatchback/station wagon)
inspires u to seek out twisty roads and take long-cuts to places...

 

Base vs S:

if u get Base, u MUST get

sport suspension +
xenons

that's 1050 closer to the S, as the first is standard on the S and the second is free in the sports package on S, but not on cooper...

mfsw and rain-sensing are under 500 combined and keep u motoring, not fidgeting with controls...same as auto-ac for another 200...those 3 are necessary options along with xenons...

leatherette is great...no need for leather...

sunroof is heavy and just tinted...no headliner to fully block out sun...

i just got mine, and it was:

S w/chrome exterior, chrome interior, sports package, mfsw, auto-ac, rain-sensing wipers...comes out to 22.5k msrp...even with discounts, can u get a loaded Jetta for 22.5k?

and the resale is great...discounts ruin resale...

 

Matthew,

Aloha and welcome to NAM.
Although these three choices are close in price range the base cooper is the best value. Once you add on quite a few options then it would be decked out with lots of comfort and convenience. The MCS has the most performance in stock form due to the supercharger,intercooler and stiffer suspension. We don't know how good or bad the MCS with automatic will be but it will have paddle shifters.

How do you define performance to you? Are you looking for overall performance- on what surface- street, autocross, track, curvy roads?
Do you want best straightline or cornering performance?

A fourth option if your weather isn't too foul most of the year is to get a base cooper cabrio. That's about $21,000+ then add options. More for cruising but very fun. Test drive an MC cabrio with CVT. That's a hot car.

Do you have any interest in autocrossing? If so the base Cooper is stock class is very strong, second pick would be the MCS in stock class. If you don't want to autocross but just drive curvy roads then both the MC and MCS will benefit from a stiffer rear sway bar (about $200 plus $80 to install). Lowering springs also help alot but the ride quality will be harsher.

If you want good straight line performance the MCS with added power is a definite plus. The MC can also be good if you get aftermarket really light rims and non runflat tires. There is no reason why an MC cannot handle as well or better than an MCS with the right suspension mods- even coil-overs if you get the MC cheap enough.

Don't waste your time on larger factory wheels or leather seats. The sunroof is nice but weighs about 56+ pounds and isn't helpful for performance. The Harmon Kardon upgrade is good for $550 more as a factory option but not audiophile quality.

Definitely a long test drive of each car would be best. MINIs are unique with many options to upgrade both inside and out. If you like upgrading, the MC has limited options for added power (intake, Cat-back exhaust, ECU, magnacor wires, throttlebody) at a reasonable price. Both MC and MCS can do full suspension upgrades with great results. Jettas are common and won't attact much attention. If you really like power upgrades then the MCS is quite good but not cheap to do some of the mods. The biggest yield comes from upgrading to a reduced pulley for the supercharger matched with an ECU software upgrade. There are many options for intake and cat-back exhaust.

Do you have an active MINI club in your area? I'd recommend going to one of their functions and meet the people.

 

Welcome to NAM. :smile:

If I were you, I would take a couple of test drives to decide which MINI is best for you.

 

Thanks to all who have replied so far. Let me try and respond to some questions to get a better understanding.


The loaded GLI does have a sticker price of $25,900 but the dealers are offering it for $23,736 which is their invoice. VW sales haven't been well the last few years so they have been giving heavy discounts including kick butt financing (got 1.9% on the Passat).

I can afford around $23,500 give or take a few hundred. I plan to put down $5500 so that after TT&L I'm borrowing 20 or 21k. Only bad thing with that is with a mini at 4.69% I'll be paying $1800 more over the loan than the Jetta at 20k financed.

The Jetta GLI is NOT a common vehicle. The plain Jetta is. I have yet to see a GLI in this city. They are more rare due to their cost. One big plus the MINI has over the Jetta is the resale value. Can't complain a bit about what MINI's resale for.

Performance for me is pretty much straight forward speed. I live in Louisiana and unlike where I grew up (PA) this place is flat, flat and more flat. I still love going for drives but it isn't anywhere near as nice as Pennsylvania when it comes to fun drives. If I can get more speed out of the base Cooper with a chip and/or intake or headers, etc, I'd like to go that route because I can shell out the money for that piece meal while I'm still driving a nicely optioned Coop.

The sunroof isn't a big deal for me. Have one in the Passat and don't use it too much. When opened at higher speeds the noise level is deafening and not worth having open.

Options I did want were the auto a/c, the HK sound system, the multifunction steerwheel, xenon lights, fog lights, and a few others. Would you guys be willing to give me an option run down as far as whats worth it and what isn't?

The price the dealer is giving me on the 05 auto Cooper S with Xenon lights and the steering wheel is $23,520. Can't afford to add any more options to that price.

Rambling again...keep posting and I'll keep coming back for more.

Thanks
Matt

 

I have 2 MINI S's, on with auto a/c, one with standard. I like the interior looks of the standard controls better, more classic looking. I also don't feel that the auto a/c is free from fiddling with temp. You'll have lots of people loving their auto a/c, but if I were to do it yet again, I'd go without the auto a/c.

 

You can get all this stuff on an auto MCS for under $24k. Build your car at www.miniua.com to make sure your dealer isn't charging over MSRP.

Base MSRP* $20,400
Destination & Handling $550

Chili Red Body Color $0
Body Color Roof/Mirrors STD

Sport Suspension Plus STD
Dynamic Stability Control $500
16" V-Spokes (All-Season) STD

Automatic w/Steptronic Paddles $1,350

Xenon Headlamps w/Power Wash $550

Automatic AC $300
Sport Seats STD
Leatherette: Black STD
Int. Surface Alloy Patina STD

3-Spoke w/Cruise and Multifunction $250
6-spkr AM/FM CD Player STD

TOTAL MSRP AS CONFIGURED* $23,900

The H/K is nice, but would be last on my list. The MFSW is a must. I would drop the extra $300 on the cold weather package too. Front and rear fogs will give you a full set of toggle switches

 

Dealer did agree that they only charge MSRP. If I bring in the MiniUSA build sheet or what not I'll get it at that price with no extra charges. Although they are saying title & license is $375 which is for sure a rip off by at least $200.

 

Base MSRP* $20,400
Destination & Handling $550
Automatic w/Steptronic Paddles $1,350
Xenon Headlamps w/Power Wash $550
3-Spoke w/Cruise and Multifunction $250
TOTAL MSRP AS CONFIGURED* $23,100

Metallic paint adds $420, and there will be a $500 price increase for cars built after 1/05. They were probably quoting a price with metallic paint.

 

Matt,

How many miles do you drive per year? Mostly urban, hwy or both?
If mostly urban and under 10,000 miles per year then the base cooper would be OK. You'd get more options and you can do some mods for a little power and much better handling (stiffer).

I didn't mean the Jetta GLI was "common" but that Jettas were common- most people can't really tell the difference as most cannot tell the difference between MC and MCS. On the road the MC does go fast so it's not that easy to tell.

Based on what you've written so far I'd say the auto MCS would be the most fun for the budget you've set. Add the rear sway bar at some point.
Keep the stock 16" wheels.

If you had to choose between the Xenons and the H/K audio upgrade that would be a tough one. I have the Xenons and I would pick the H/K over it.
If you drive mostly days then you can't use the Xenons. H/K you can use all the time and might prevent you from buying audio upgrades like I did. Also the H/K is better than the stock system especially if you like music- you just have to learn how to set it up. MFSW is fine.

Auto AC is OK but I would hardly use it. Be it known that AC running will rob power esp in a base Cooper so in that respect the MCS is much better if you drive with AC on in "hot Louisiana". DSC is a good safety option but most of us that drive aggressively will turn it off.

That is a good price on the Jetta GLI- why do they need to do that? Too much inventory, too expensive compared to other cars of similar type, not as good performance as the MCS or VW sales need a boost.

 

Minihune,

The Cooper would be a daily commuter of sorts. We plan to take one car one week and the other car the next(wife and I car pool to work since we work 2 miles apart) to keep the mileage down on both cars. I have a 76 mile round trip commute monday through friday. It's safe to say we'd be putting about 15,000 miles on the Cooper a year, most of it interstate hwy travel.

VW as a whole has stated it will lose over $1 Billion this year in the USA between the VW brand and Audi brand. Part of it is because of the weak dollar. The rest it due to very weak sales. The Golf, Passat and Jetta designs are all about 7 or 8 years old. The new Jetta comes out in March, Passt in June or July and Golf in January 2006.

Edit: Two more questions. 1. How can I find out if there is a MINI club in Louisiana and 2. Where can I find out more info on autocrossing? Sounds like fun.

 

Hi, Matt! Welcome to NAM! :smile:

If you are deciding between the H/K and the Xenons, DEFINITELY get the Xenons! They are self-leveling, and after having had both choices (I first owned a Cooper with the standard lights before trading her in for my MCS), I would never go back to non-Xenon lights. The H/K is definitely better than the standard sound system, but you can add a great aftermarket one when it's affordable for you.

Both of the a/c systems are excellent. And the heated seats are really wonderful...you can turn on the back & seat or just the back, and it's great for keeping the back limber on long trips. I love the sunroof! I never thought I'd use it, but ordered the Premium Pkg, which included it, and it's been thoroughly enjoyed! The multi-function steering wheel is fantastic and easy to operate...a definite must-have. I have the auto-wipers and really like them...something to consider in wet LA!

If you're dealing with Brian Harris in Baton Rouge, that dealership has a good reputation. Good luck with your ultimate decision! We'd love to have you join our MINI community! Keep us posted!

Clover

 

Yeah I'm dealing with Brian Harris. Only MINI dealer in the state. Good to hear they have a good reputation. If I enjoy the car on the test drive I might make the decision to go with the Coop and forget about the GLI. It's such a neat car its hard NOT to want it.

 

A couple more things that might be helpfull:

1 - I did not get the Xenon lamps with my MCS. I drive on some pretty dark wooded roads here in CT from time to time, and while the Xenons would probably be great to have, the stock headlights have been just fine, and I have never once needed anything more than them. Plus.. there are some relatively inexpensive bulb upgrades out there. You can save yourself some $$ by sticking with the stock lights, unless you really must have the Xenons.

2 - I did not get the HK system. I love audio, and while the stock system is nothing to go crazy over, it is adequate. I have my iPod hooked up to it and I crank it up all the time. At some point I will probably upgrade it, and from what I have heard, it is easier to upgrade the stock system than the HK system. The HK does have nicer sound, but if $$ is an issue, I think you can skip it and do your own upgrades later when you have the extra $$$.

This is just my opinion... and I am sure others will disagree with me. But that is what makes the MINI so cool.. we each have one that is to our liking!

 

The Xenons are important to me because of my vision. No I'm not blind or anything but I do wear glasses. Any help in seeing at night is a wise buy in my opinion which is why I want the HID's.

 

I saw on the web where Mini has a 53% resale value after 5 years of ownership. Infact at my local dealer, (D&R Mini Indy) they have a 03 MC with all 3 packages for $23,000! That is more than the original purchase price!


Lets see a VW get that kind of resale value. Ain't gonna happen. Besides a VW is a VW. No matter how many Phatons or Touregs they build you still are getting a Volks Waggon. I have heard countless stories of poor service, and poor dealer experiences!

Not to say that MINI owners haven't had headaches.. Though most of them here and on MINI2 are MCS owners.

 

2005 Mini Cooper

Jet Black
White Roof/Mirrors,
White Wheels
Mighty Stripes White offset bonnet and boot stripes
Xenon Headlamps w/Power Wash

5 speed Manual
15" 7 Holes (All Season)

Cold weather pack
Standard Octagon Panther Black seats
Silver interior Surface
Cockpit Chrono Pack w/Onboard Computer
3 Spoke w/Cruise and Multifunction
6 speaker AM/FM CD Player

That is LOT of personality and performance for just under $19 grand!

Now to get my finances in line to order it!

 

While you are 100% correct on the resale value don't be so quick to bash VW's. My Passat is the best car I've owned or driven. It has an amazing ride, strong engine and the interior quality it top notch. Yes the dealerships suck unbelievable *** but I have yet to meet any car dealer that I like.

It's ok to say the Coopers are better and you are probably right. Just don't trash VW's.

 

All i can say is go for the MCS...I got mine in October and in the last few months I have had more fun driving my mini than ANY other car I have ever owned! You will not regret it!

 

deleted.. Not wanting to fight.

 

DrDiff,


Relax man. I was never angry nor was I picking a fight. I just don't like to see people bash VW's when they don't have any experience with them. Thats all.