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Thinking of New MINI Cooper 2 Door - Cooper vs S ?

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Old 04-10-2019, 09:32 PM
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Thinking of New MINI Cooper 2 Door - Cooper vs S ?

Hi,

Thinking seriously of getting either a new 2 door Cooper or S model. Maybe even going with build option.

What's your thoughts regarding deciding between the two versions?

Obviously, there's the cost difference....but what about other things?

Thanks for any input.

Mark
 
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Old 04-10-2019, 09:42 PM
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Long test drive of both. Nothing I can tell you would be like that. I like both engine configurations.
 
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Old 04-10-2019, 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Minnie.the.Moocher View Post
Long test drive of both. Nothing I can tell you would be like that. I like both engine configurations.
Thank you for your input....makes sense.....

As I understand it, the S has a peppier, smoother engine and if I'm not mistaken, a bit more tuned suspension. Those are the differences between the two models, yes?
 
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Old 04-11-2019, 07:09 AM
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The S has a turbo, the Cooper not. Makes a big difference.
 
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Old 04-11-2019, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by cooper48 View Post
The S has a turbo, the Cooper not. Makes a big difference.
3rd generation cars all have turbo's. The S is faster for sure and depending on driving style might not be needed at all. My wife has the non S and if she feels the need for a bit more power just uses sport mode. For 99.9% of her driving it is way more than sufficient.
 
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Old 04-11-2019, 07:33 AM
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My bad, didn't know that. Where does the S's 55 extra HP come from (134 vs 189)?
 
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Old 04-11-2019, 07:39 AM
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3 vs. 4 cylinders I assume account for much of it.
 
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Old 04-11-2019, 07:54 AM
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I was in a similar situation a while back. I had an MCS and thought about going with a Justa for my next car. Went to the dealership and did a test drive. Justa was fine, but lacked power and pep, compared to my MCS w/ the JCW tune. Certainly not a surprise there. The Justa handled fine and wasn't a "dog", but I wasn't ready to lose the extra performance I had in my car. The MCS w/ the JCW factory tune is, for me, the perfect car.

I would venture that if you have not owned either and do a back to back (normal driving) , it will be a toss up. Also much has to do with how you drive the cars. If you like to play and zip around a lot, the MCS is going to be more satisfying. If you are after economy and more normal driving the Justa will likely "tick" all the boxes for you. Not inferring that Justa isn't a fun car to drive, it certainly is IMO, compared to other brands.

There are fans in both camps, so one car is not clearly better than the other. It will come down mostly to what you want out of the car.

July starts the 2020 model year production. I highly recommend ordering a car. You won't have to settle for something you don't want out of dealer inventory. I order all my cars. I get exactly what I want and enjoy ownership completely. Of course, if you find exactly what you want on the dealer's lot, buy it. I have never been that lucky. Dealers rarely order in the upgraded HK music system of the infotainment package. Both are must haves for me since I listen to music always and like the larger display screen. Also, since my last Mini didn't have it my BMW does, "Comfort Access" is a wonderful option.

The Mini Configutor isn't perfect so if there is something you wish to add or delete from a particular trim line, the dealership many be able to do that for you when you order the car. I opted to delete the moon roof on my new order (for a $ savings) .

Good luck

Originally Posted by ArchiMark View Post
Hi,

Thinking seriously of getting either a new 2 door Cooper or S model. Maybe even going with build option.

What's your thoughts regarding deciding between the two versions?

Obviously, there's the cost difference....but what about other things?

Thanks for any input.

Mark
 
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  #9  
Old 04-11-2019, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by cooper48 View Post
The S has a turbo, the Cooper not. Makes a big difference.
Thank you for pointing that out...makes sense it would make a big difference....

Originally Posted by Minnie.the.Moocher View Post
3rd generation cars all have turbo's. The S is faster for sure and depending on driving style might not be needed at all. My wife has the non S and if she feels the need for a bit more power just uses sport mode. For 99.9% of her driving it is way more than sufficient.
Thank you. Good to know that all the cars have turbo's.....and there's the sport mode option for non S car.....


Originally Posted by USA-RET View Post
I was in a similar situation a while back. I had an MCS and thought about going with a Justa for my next car. Went to the dealership and did a test drive. Justa was fine, but lacked power and pep, compared to my MCS w/ the JCW tune. Certainly not a surprise there. The Justa handled fine and wasn't a "dog", but I wasn't ready to lose the extra performance I had in my car. The MCS w/ the JCW factory tune is, for me, the perfect car.

I would venture that if you have not owned either and do a back to back (normal driving) , it will be a toss up. Also much has to do with how you drive the cars. If you like to play and zip around a lot, the MCS is going to be more satisfying. If you are after economy and more normal driving the Justa will likely "tick" all the boxes for you. Not inferring that Justa isn't a fun car to drive, it certainly is IMO, compared to other brands.

There are fans in both camps, so one car is not clearly better than the other. It will come down mostly to what you want out of the car.

July starts the 2020 model year production. I highly recommend ordering a car. You won't have to settle for something you don't want out of dealer inventory. I order all my cars. I get exactly what I want and enjoy ownership completely. Of course, if you find exactly what you want on the dealer's lot, buy it. I have never been that lucky. Dealers rarely order in the upgraded HK music system of the infotainment package. Both are must haves for me since I listen to music always and like the larger display screen. Also, since my last Mini didn't have it my BMW does, "Comfort Access" is a wonderful option.

The Mini Configutor isn't perfect so if there is something you wish to add or delete from a particular trim line, the dealership many be able to do that for you when you order the car. I opted to delete the moon roof on my new order (for a $ savings) .

Good luck
Thank you for such detailed input. Very helpful.....

As for my car/driving needs/wants, I have 2004 Acura RSX with 216K miles on it now. Overall, still drives well, but starting to show her age with some rattles, etc. Handling is quite good, but not like a Mini.

Recently changed office location, so now I only have a 4 mile commute each way. Going to work it's 99% on highway going 70+ MPH. Going home I usually take the streets with stoplights, so, about 35 - 45 MPH. Either way, it's very short trip now.

Weekends often go out with my wife one day, so, about 70 - 80 mile drive, 95% highway drive, 70+ MPH. Portion (10 miles) is on windy road on a tall hill. In addition, may drive here and there doing errands, etc.

While not a huge amount of driving, do enjoy a car that has some pep and handles well. Hence, a Mini!

I have a feeling that dealers won't have a car on lot that is configured with my preferences. If they do, then great. Otherwise, I'm OK with ordering and waiting a bit....

Good to know that dealer may be able to configure car with options not available on the Mini Configurator.

Planning on going over to Mini dealer soon to test drive cars and check out configurations, inventory, and if needed ordering.

Appreciate all the input so far! If any other input, great. Otherwise, will report back after visit with dealer......

Mark
 
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Old 04-11-2019, 10:44 AM
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I ordered mine over seven years ago and remember having the same debate. I test drove both and unlike most of the other posters, I went with a base model because of one reason...The base came with a spare tire and traditional tires (versus run-flats). I've never regretted my decision and my Mini now has 110,000 miles.
 
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Old 04-11-2019, 10:47 AM
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A few more questions please....as I made appointment at dealer for tomorrow.....

Regarding options....

On the S model, there's the following options. Curious if anyone thinks they're worth having.

- Dynamic Damper Control

- Driver Assistance Package

- Alarm System

- Touchscreen Navigation Package (has larger display)


If I missed anything worth considering, I'd be interested in that too....

Thanks!
 
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Old 04-11-2019, 04:53 PM
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FWIW, on my order (in process now), I went with Dynamic dampers. I have/had them on my 2015..when you switch to sport mode you can select a softer ride. For me I liked the extra zip, but didn't want the extra pounding the shift to "sport" makes to the suspension.

I chose the Nav for the bigger screen (like I did on my 2015). I rarely use it but the larger screen is nice and I can use it as a split to show nav data on one side and music infor on the other. May not be a huge deal for some, but I like the larger screen.

Opted out of the Driver assist for the additional $1K. New models come with a neutered version of it (at least in the Iconic). It will employ braking if you are approaching a stopped car from the rear. I'm not sure I'd need it but it comes standard with the Iconic,, so what the heck. The upgraded version was an easy "no" for me.

Pretty much the same with the alarm.. Car is garaged when home..we use it for shopping and around town stuff during the day. Never leave it parked out in sketchy neighborhoods or long term parking over night. If you do, maybe worth it.

I went with comfort access (this time) since I find reaching for the fob to unlock (a real 1st world problem here) the car. It can be a bit inconvenient if raining or loaded down with stuff in the hand you use to fish the fob out of pocket. Never thought about it until I got my C7 and the the BMW. Really a nice feature especially if you are carrying stuff. Hatch opens when it senses you touch the lever/button with the fob in pocket.

Last is the storage package. Nice to have a bit of hidden storage out of sight even when the rear seats are folded and the rear concealing do-dad is removed (don't know what you call it)., It hides the area behind the rear seats when the seats are in the upright position. Since it's me and my wife, rears are always down and that "concealer" is removed. So ours is like a little station wagon/SUV. The storage package allows for a flat floor from tailgate to the backs of the front seats. W/o it you have an indentation. Just a handy deal that I re-ordered on my 2019.

I hate moonroofs. They can leak, the Mini sun shade is pretty lame, and living in Florida, I do not want to drive around in a solarium. If I lived north, maybe (but past cars had leaks and there has been issues with the BMW sunroofs exploding for whatever reason). I saved $800 by not ordering it on the Mini, I save $0 when I ordered my M240i and was glad to at least have the option to delete it. On a lesser note, extra weight for the glass and motor that high in the car does not help balance nor performance. So if you are a "Weight Weenie", there's another reason to delete it. LOL

Hope this helps







Originally Posted by ArchiMark View Post
A few more questions please....as I made appointment at dealer for tomorrow.....

Regarding options....

On the S model, there's the following options. Curious if anyone thinks they're worth having.

- Dynamic Damper Control

- Driver Assistance Package

- Alarm System

- Touchscreen Navigation Package (has larger display)


If I missed anything worth considering, I'd be interested in that too....

Thanks!
 
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Old 04-11-2019, 05:35 PM
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I've had all three: 2015 non-S, 2017 JCW and now a 2018 S all 6 speed manuals. Of the 3 I've owned, the charm and character award goes to my non-S. It was pretty loaded out, peppy with long gears and 38 mpg average as a nice perk. The 3 cylinder has a nice sound to it as well. Wanted something insanely fast so I purchased my JCW, which was hysterically fun, but after a year on rough roads just too stiff for me. Going to the S was just right. Fully loaded and with DDC, making a huge difference.

Honestly, you'll be happy with whatever you pick. The S is a bit faster than the non-S, but it's the options that will make either one a great car.
 
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Old 04-11-2019, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by USA-RET View Post
FWIW, on my order (in process now), I went with Dynamic dampers. I have/had them on my 2015..when you switch to sport mode you can select a softer ride. For me I liked the extra zip, but didn't want the extra pounding the shift to "sport" makes to the suspension.

I chose the Nav for the bigger screen (like I did on my 2015). I rarely use it but the larger screen is nice and I can use it as a split to show nav data on one side and music infor on the other. May not be a huge deal for some, but I like the larger screen.

Opted out of the Driver assist for the additional $1K. New models come with a neutered version of it (at least in the Iconic). It will employ braking if you are approaching a stopped car from the rear. I'm not sure I'd need it but it comes standard with the Iconic,, so what the heck. The upgraded version was an easy "no" for me.

Pretty much the same with the alarm.. Car is garaged when home..we use it for shopping and around town stuff during the day. Never leave it parked out in sketchy neighborhoods or long term parking over night. If you do, maybe worth it.

I went with comfort access (this time) since I find reaching for the fob to unlock (a real 1st world problem here) the car. It can be a bit inconvenient if raining or loaded down with stuff in the hand you use to fish the fob out of pocket. Never thought about it until I got my C7 and the the BMW. Really a nice feature especially if you are carrying stuff. Hatch opens when it senses you touch the lever/button with the fob in pocket.

Last is the storage package. Nice to have a bit of hidden storage out of sight even when the rear seats are folded and the rear concealing do-dad is removed (don't know what you call it)., It hides the area behind the rear seats when the seats are in the upright position. Since it's me and my wife, rears are always down and that "concealer" is removed. So ours is like a little station wagon/SUV. The storage package allows for a flat floor from tailgate to the backs of the front seats. W/o it you have an indentation. Just a handy deal that I re-ordered on my 2019.

I hate moonroofs. They can leak, the Mini sun shade is pretty lame, and living in Florida, I do not want to drive around in a solarium. If I lived north, maybe (but past cars had leaks and there has been issues with the BMW sunroofs exploding for whatever reason). I saved $800 by not ordering it on the Mini, I save $0 when I ordered my M240i and was glad to at least have the option to delete it. On a lesser note, extra weight for the glass and motor that high in the car does not help balance nor performance. So if you are a "Weight Weenie", there's another reason to delete it. LOL

Hope this helps
Thank you for all the various comments. Very helpful to hear....and I'm not a big fan of moonroofs either....was not fun when the drains plugged up on my wife's Beetle about 5 years ago...definitely was not good for the interior to take on water.....

Have one on my RSX too and I've probably opened it about a dozen times in about 12 years....find the daylight from above distracting and not helpful.


Originally Posted by ToyCar View Post
I've had all three: 2015 non-S, 2017 JCW and now a 2018 S all 6 speed manuals. Of the 3 I've owned, the charm and character award goes to my non-S. It was pretty loaded out, peppy with long gears and 38 mpg average as a nice perk. The 3 cylinder has a nice sound to it as well. Wanted something insanely fast so I purchased my JCW, which was hysterically fun, but after a year on rough roads just too stiff for me. Going to the S was just right. Fully loaded and with DDC, making a huge difference.

Honestly, you'll be happy with whatever you pick. The S is a bit faster than the non-S, but it's the options that will make either one a great car.
Thank you for your comments. Very helpful too.
 
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Old 04-11-2019, 08:31 PM
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We have 2 MINIs in our family. Both are 2019's, A Cooper and a JCW. The 3 cylinders no longer come with driving modes.

Cooper: I find that the steering feels better than the JCW because the front is lighter. It's peppy until you rev over 4500. Power seems to drop off at that point.

JCW: DDC suspension ride is much better than the regular suspension. More power for passing people.

Get the LED headlights. the Halogen ones suck.

Test drive all the different versions and transmissions. Do an extended test drive. a short one won't tell you much.
 
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Old 04-11-2019, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by ShipM8 View Post
I ordered mine over seven years ago and remember having the same debate. I test drove both and unlike most of the other posters, I went with a base model because of one reason...The base came with a spare tire and traditional tires (versus run-flats). I've never regretted my decision and my Mini now has 110,000 miles.
Thanks for your comments.....congrats on your 110K miles...
 
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Old 04-11-2019, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by N0B0DY View Post
We have 2 MINIs in our family. Both are 2019's, A Cooper and a JCW. The 3 cylinders no longer come with driving modes.

Cooper: I find that the steering feels better than the JCW because the front is lighter. It's peppy until you rev over 4500. Power seems to drop off at that point.

JCW: DDC suspension ride is much better than the regular suspension. More power for passing people.

Get the LED headlights. the Halogen ones suck.

Test drive all the different versions and transmissions. Do an extended test drive. a short one won't tell you much.
Interesting points.....thanks...

And yes, agree that extended drive is best....
 
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Old 04-12-2019, 05:52 PM
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Had a good time at Mini dealer today.....

Test drove the base and S......

Base very nice.....

S, very nice too.......definitely felt the engine and suspension/ride difference....more zip and more taut ride.....

Only thing is that the base had aftermarket wheels with Bridgestone tires while the S had the stock 17" wheels with Pirelli tires...

The Bridgestone tires felt firmer and noisier while the Pirelli's felt softer and quieter.

After test drive, checked inventory at dealer and in US....unfortunately, no one has the exact combo I want....so, looks like I'll need to do a build option. That's OK, I can wait....

Does anyone know when the cutoff date is for putting in a build order? I was told it's coming up soon, likely by May....

Thanks,

Mark
 
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Old 04-12-2019, 06:43 PM
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Production for the 2020's start in July. I'd imagine once the plant reopens in May (closed for April), your dealer maybe can start ordering a 2020. You can check and see if Mini has any incentives on 2019 models that will be the end of production run. Not sure when that actually ends. Virtually no changes from 2019 to 2020. I was planning on ordering a 2020, but grabbed the $2K incentive from Mini by ordering before Mar 31. My 2019 is slated to be finished on May15. Your dealer should know for sure, either way, you should be able to order one or the other starting in May


Originally Posted by ArchiMark View Post
Had a good time at Mini dealer today.....er

Test drove the base and S......

Base very nice.....

S, very nice too.......definitely felt the engine and suspension/ride difference....more zip and more taut ride.....

Only thing is that the base had aftermarket wheels with Bridgestone tires while the S had the stock 17" wheels with Pirelli tires...

The Bridgestone tires felt firmer and noisier while the Pirelli's felt softer and quieter.

After test drive, checked inventory at dealer and in US....unfortunately, no one has the exact combo I want....so, looks like I'll need to do a build option. That's OK, I can wait....

Does anyone know when the cutoff date is for putting in a build order? I was told it's coming up soon, likely by May....

Thanks,

Mark
 
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Old 04-12-2019, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by USA-RET View Post
Production for the 2020's start in July. I'd imagine once the plant reopens in May (closed for April), your dealer maybe can start ordering a 2020. You can check and see if Mini has any incentives on 2019 models that will be the end of production run. Not sure when that actually ends. Virtually no changes from 2019 to 2020. I was planning on ordering a 2020, but grabbed the $2K incentive from Mini by ordering before Mar 31. My 2019 is slated to be finished on May15. Your dealer should know for sure, either way, you should be able to order one or the other starting in May
Thanks, as always, for your helpful input!

Wasn't aware plan was closed this month....

Was wondering today about whether there are any real changes with the 2020 model....so, good to know it doesn't really matter which year.....

Too bad I didn't know about the incentive before.....
 
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Old 04-12-2019, 08:44 PM
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Incentives change all the time and vary depending on location. Sometimes the dealers aren't even aware of some of the incentives.

My dealer wasn't aware of the free MINI driving school for current MINI owners upgrading to a new JCW that was offered during Feb/Mar.

I've seen some great deals recently on in stock MINIs. Get on the mailing lists of a few MINI dealers and you will get some e-mail only specials. Last month, one dealer was offering a JCW for $5500 off.
 
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Old 04-12-2019, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by N0B0DY View Post
Incentives change all the time and vary depending on location. Sometimes the dealers aren't even aware of some of the incentives.

My dealer wasn't aware of the free MINI driving school for current MINI owners upgrading to a new JCW that was offered during Feb/Mar.

I've seen some great deals recently on in stock MINIs. Get on the mailing lists of a few MINI dealers and you will get some e-mail only specials. Last month, one dealer was offering a JCW for $5500 off.
Thanks for the input....very helpful points....

Meanwhile, I meant to ask, know what the Sport mode does in the S, but what does the Eco (Green?) mode really do?
 
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Old 04-13-2019, 05:48 AM
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Originally Posted by ArchiMark View Post
Thanks for the input....very helpful points....

Meanwhile, I meant to ask, know what the Sport mode does in the S, but what does the Eco (Green?) mode really do?
As I recall, Econ (automatic transmission) starts the car out in second gear rather than first and also shifts through the gear rather quickly to get you into the top gear faster than the other two modes (guessing the car uses more fuel the longer it stays in a lower gear (as the RPMs are higher). Additionally, when you put the car into eco mode, it enables the "auto start stop" feature..meaning at each stop the motors shuts off. Not a big fan of that so if I am in eco mode, I have to remember to hit the toggle switch on the dash to disable that feature.

There may be another feature or two I'm not mentioning, but from a noticeable perspective the above mentioned is what I notice most.

I rarely use it on mine. I do engage it if I know I'm going to be driving on the interstate for a long distance or on mixed (Interstate/4 lane roads) for lets say 100 miles + or so. It's a decent feature and can save some fuel. Around town driving, Eco sucks the life out of the car IMO. I suppose if saving every bit of fuel was high on someones list, it could be a fun feature to see how high you can run the MPG's.

In Mid mode (mostly) w/ some spirited driving, I'm averaging between 36 and 37 MPG using 93 octane.top tier fuel
 
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Old 04-13-2019, 06:10 AM
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Originally Posted by ArchiMark View Post
Thanks, as always, for your helpful input!

Wasn't aware plan was closed this month....

Was wondering today about whether there are any real changes with the 2020 model....so, good to know it doesn't really matter which year.....

Too bad I didn't know about the incentive before.....
The $2K incentive expired on 31 March. Dealer did not know what (if any) incentives would be offered by Mini after that. He mentioned that generally there could be @ least $1k or maybe $1500 on any remaining 2019's produced (which could possibly be added to the $1K off on S models by USAA until Dec 2020). This whole discussion came up because for me to get the $2k, I had to take deliver by 30 June (since 2020 production starts in July). Sales mgr said I may be wise to wait a month and just order a 2020. It came down to the $2K incentive for essentially the same car as a 2020. He (sales guy) said, that w/ new models, there will likely be no incentives (other than maybe low interest financing), since it's a new model. In essence, I'd lose $1K on the deal if I waited for the 2020. I could gamble and hope Mini offers a $500 -$1K incentive that could be added to the USAA. But as is, the $2K incentive clearly states "cannot be used with any other offers. This could be "mice type" on any incentive offered on a 2020.


I just looked this up-
For your consideration:

https://www.miniusa.com/tools/shoppi...rtible/2019///

Apparently, there is a $1K offer, if you take delivery by 30 Apr. Meaning these are all dealer stock cars.and that incentive can be used w/ other offers. So reading between the lines, It appears there are no new orders being accepted for 2019 models. When the plant opens, the 2019's in production will be completed and all new production will be 2020 model years.
 
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ArchiMark (04-13-2019)
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Old 04-13-2019, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by USA-RET View Post
As I recall, Econ (automatic transmission) starts the car out in second gear rather than first and also shifts through the gear rather quickly to get you into the top gear faster than the other two modes (guessing the car uses more fuel the longer it stays in a lower gear (as the RPMs are higher). Additionally, when you put the car into eco mode, it enables the "auto start stop" feature..meaning at each stop the motors shuts off. Not a big fan of that so if I am in eco mode, I have to remember to hit the toggle switch on the dash to disable that feature.

There may be another feature or two I'm not mentioning, but from a noticeable perspective the above mentioned is what I notice most.

I rarely use it on mine. I do engage it if I know I'm going to be driving on the interstate for a long distance or on mixed (Interstate/4 lane roads) for lets say 100 miles + or so. It's a decent feature and can save some fuel. Around town driving, Eco sucks the life out of the car IMO. I suppose if saving every bit of fuel was high on someones list, it could be a fun feature to see how high you can run the MPG's.

In Mid mode (mostly) w/ some spirited driving, I'm averaging between 36 and 37 MPG using 93 octane.top tier fuel
Thanks for detailed explanation. Think I understand now...

Do you have to use 93 octane or can you also use 91?


Originally Posted by USA-RET View Post
The $2K incentive expired on 31 March. Dealer did not know what (if any) incentives would be offered by Mini after that. He mentioned that generally there could be @ least $1k or maybe $1500 on any remaining 2019's produced (which could possibly be added to the $1K off on S models by USAA until Dec 2020). This whole discussion came up because for me to get the $2k, I had to take deliver by 30 June (since 2020 production starts in July). Sales mgr said I may be wise to wait a month and just order a 2020. It came down to the $2K incentive for essentially the same car as a 2020. He (sales guy) said, that w/ new models, there will likely be no incentives (other than maybe low interest financing), since it's a new model. In essence, I'd lose $1K on the deal if I waited for the 2020. I could gamble and hope Mini offers a $500 -$1K incentive that could be added to the USAA. But as is, the $2K incentive clearly states "cannot be used with any other offers. This could be "mice type" on any incentive offered on a 2020.


I just looked this up-
For your consideration:

https://www.miniusa.com/tools/shoppi...rtible/2019///

Apparently, there is a $1K offer, if you take delivery by 30 Apr. Meaning these are all dealer stock cars.and that incentive can be used w/ other offers. So reading between the lines, It appears there are no new orders being accepted for 2019 models. When the plant opens, the 2019's in production will be completed and all new production will be 2020 model years.
Thanks for sharing this info.
 

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