Drivetrain 350Z owners get ripped off
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3rd Gear
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 206
Likes: 37
From: Jensen Beach, FloRida
I put this here bacause I thought is was relevent to performance mods. I am always scepticle when I see something new come out w/ promises of big HP gains.
This 350Z owner took apart a $250 performance add on only to find a 20 amp fuse soldered to wires inside. I was going to post a link to the 350Z thread but you need member ship. I will qoute it here and post pics here same info as the 350Z board.
[quote]Final report on my testing of the Direct Power System
OK, so I believe I have completed testing of the Direct Power System (DPS) manufactured by K&G of Japan.
I'm sure you're all eagerly awaiting the results.
Thursday I installed the DPS on my Nissan 350Z. My engine mods are:
Procharger Supercharger @ 7PSI
Grounding Kit
Wideband O2 Sensor
Borla True Dual Exhaust
Today I installed the DPS on Zand02Max's car. His engine mods are as follows:
K&N Air filter
Pyle 3 Farad Capacitor
Optima Yellow Top Battery
1) Voltage measurements at the + post on the battery with the engine running with and without the DPS.
Voltages remained constant with no discernable change.
2) Next I tested with a Fluke brand portable Oscilloscope to measure frequency variations with the engine running with and without the DPS.
There was no noticeable difference noted on oscilloscope
3) Test drove the car 5 minutes without and approx 45 minutes total with the DPS.
No noticeable change in acceleration, idle or smoothness during the test drive.
4) I repeated these tests on my car without the supercharger belt connected.
Results were the same.
5) Next, I completed the same tests on zand02max's car.
Results were the same.
The next thing I did was hook up my 13.8V 20W variable voltage power supply. I took measurements at 10V 12V 13V and 13.5V with an oscilloscope and a multimeter.
6) Measured 10V with and without DPS unit.
No load was put on the power supply, no voltage change, no frequncy changes noted.
6) Same test @ 12V
Same results
7) Same test @ 13V
Same results
Same test @ 13.5V
Same results
So as you can see my results were inconclusive. I was not able to detect the DPS doing much of anything.
At this point I was frustrated. WTH is going on!?! Surely this box must do something, I mean it costs $250 plus shipping. I wanted to open the box up so I could trace out the circuit so I could know what I should be testing for.
Screw it, I opened the box up.
First barrier: The lid was securely epoxied in place. So I took a small drill and drilled holes at strategic points and was careful not to damage any circuitry inside by pushing the drill in to far. Finally pried the lid off and I saw my next barrier. 5 minutes work
Second barrier: When I opened the box, I found the box was filled with what looked like an opaque beige fiberglass resin. I chipped through that to come to my next barrier. 10 minutes work
Third barrier: Obviously they don't want me looking in this thing. Next barrier was easier, but I couldn't figure out why it was there. I'll come back to that later. Beneath the resin there was what looked like a mass of metal tape. Sure enough I found the electronics were double wrapped in metal foil tape. I removed that. 1 minute work.
I don't know if I should give away the secret to the DPS system and what it actually does.
So, here is my poll. Should I post pictures and a circuit description of the DPS system electronics and potentially open myself up to lawsuits because of their "International Patent"
Yes, I wanna know if this is worth it.
No, Don't risk it man, it's not worth getting sued over.
Who gives a crap, I wasn't gonna buy it anyways.
I'll let the poll run for a while and when I see there is a measurable response to this poll, I will decide whether I should do it or not.
Edit: BTW, I can tell you conclusively what this thing does thanks to a years worth of electronics training courtesy of the US Army.
Well, a few posts later he spilled the beans....basically the box contains an automotive 12volt 30amp fuse which is wired to a male/female connector (pass thru style much like the edge ez).
Talk about some ****** off customers...
here's a link to the post (registration required)
http://www.my350z.com/forum/showthr...&threadid=51032</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>
Heres a couple pics:
This 350Z owner took apart a $250 performance add on only to find a 20 amp fuse soldered to wires inside. I was going to post a link to the 350Z thread but you need member ship. I will qoute it here and post pics here same info as the 350Z board.
[quote]Final report on my testing of the Direct Power System
OK, so I believe I have completed testing of the Direct Power System (DPS) manufactured by K&G of Japan.
I'm sure you're all eagerly awaiting the results.
Thursday I installed the DPS on my Nissan 350Z. My engine mods are:
Procharger Supercharger @ 7PSI
Grounding Kit
Wideband O2 Sensor
Borla True Dual Exhaust
Today I installed the DPS on Zand02Max's car. His engine mods are as follows:
K&N Air filter
Pyle 3 Farad Capacitor
Optima Yellow Top Battery
1) Voltage measurements at the + post on the battery with the engine running with and without the DPS.
Voltages remained constant with no discernable change.
2) Next I tested with a Fluke brand portable Oscilloscope to measure frequency variations with the engine running with and without the DPS.
There was no noticeable difference noted on oscilloscope
3) Test drove the car 5 minutes without and approx 45 minutes total with the DPS.
No noticeable change in acceleration, idle or smoothness during the test drive.
4) I repeated these tests on my car without the supercharger belt connected.
Results were the same.
5) Next, I completed the same tests on zand02max's car.
Results were the same.
The next thing I did was hook up my 13.8V 20W variable voltage power supply. I took measurements at 10V 12V 13V and 13.5V with an oscilloscope and a multimeter.
6) Measured 10V with and without DPS unit.
No load was put on the power supply, no voltage change, no frequncy changes noted.
6) Same test @ 12V
Same results
7) Same test @ 13V
Same results
Same test @ 13.5V Same results
So as you can see my results were inconclusive. I was not able to detect the DPS doing much of anything.
At this point I was frustrated. WTH is going on!?! Surely this box must do something, I mean it costs $250 plus shipping. I wanted to open the box up so I could trace out the circuit so I could know what I should be testing for.
Screw it, I opened the box up.
First barrier: The lid was securely epoxied in place. So I took a small drill and drilled holes at strategic points and was careful not to damage any circuitry inside by pushing the drill in to far. Finally pried the lid off and I saw my next barrier. 5 minutes work
Second barrier: When I opened the box, I found the box was filled with what looked like an opaque beige fiberglass resin. I chipped through that to come to my next barrier. 10 minutes work
Third barrier: Obviously they don't want me looking in this thing. Next barrier was easier, but I couldn't figure out why it was there. I'll come back to that later. Beneath the resin there was what looked like a mass of metal tape. Sure enough I found the electronics were double wrapped in metal foil tape. I removed that. 1 minute work.
I don't know if I should give away the secret to the DPS system and what it actually does.
So, here is my poll. Should I post pictures and a circuit description of the DPS system electronics and potentially open myself up to lawsuits because of their "International Patent"
Yes, I wanna know if this is worth it.
No, Don't risk it man, it's not worth getting sued over.
Who gives a crap, I wasn't gonna buy it anyways.
I'll let the poll run for a while and when I see there is a measurable response to this poll, I will decide whether I should do it or not.
Edit: BTW, I can tell you conclusively what this thing does thanks to a years worth of electronics training courtesy of the US Army.
Well, a few posts later he spilled the beans....basically the box contains an automotive 12volt 30amp fuse which is wired to a male/female connector (pass thru style much like the edge ez).
Talk about some ****** off customers...
here's a link to the post (registration required)
http://www.my350z.com/forum/showthr...&threadid=51032</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>
Heres a couple pics:
6th Gear
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,652
Likes: 6
From: Lansdale, PA
BWAHAHAHA!!!
Here's a site selling the product:
http://redlineautosalon.com/store/pr...roducts_id=533
Here's a site selling the product:
http://redlineautosalon.com/store/pr...roducts_id=533
6th Gear
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,652
Likes: 6
From: Lansdale, PA
Thread Starter
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3rd Gear
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 206
Likes: 37
From: Jensen Beach, FloRida
LOL! This guy swears he feels it!! This is EXACTLY why I dont jump and buy crap based on peoples testimony. I want to see dyno sheets from a consumer before I decide to buy something. I am still not convinced of the Plasma Booster all the Mini guys are buying. I think I was a dyno sheet with a 1hp change on it. Thats not enough for me to want to buy it.
_________________
2003 Mini Cooper S - Future AutoX car ---
1987 Mazda RX-7 320RWHP - 2600 lbs
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2003 Mini Cooper S - Future AutoX car ---
1987 Mazda RX-7 320RWHP - 2600 lbs
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3rd Gear
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 225
Likes: 0
From: Pensacola FL
I LOVE this bit....
Did you know?
The DPS was developed by ex-NASCAR® driver; Kazuteru Wakida. He has raced in events such as the Coca Cola 500®, along-side Jeff Gordon and others.
The head of research and development, Gerhard W. Rickert, is a graduate of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.
The Direct Power System is internationally patented. This means it really works. (Patent# 2002-109831)
The Direct Power System was developed in laboratories, with millions of dollars in research.
The Direct Power System is professionally assembled in Japan under strict conditions, unlike other parts which are made in Taiwan and China in "sweat shop" conditions.
Top automobile manufacturers have attempted developing similar units as the DPS, but K&G was the first to create and patent this technology.
The DPS is the single hottest item in Japan since its public release 1 year ago.
The DPS has appeared in almost every automotive performance magazine in Japan, and is soon to follow a similar path in the United States.
The DPS is 100% water and dust proof. For vehicles with scoops or openings on the hood, the DPS will be 100% safe, and can be submerged under water and still function normally "
I wonder if my Pilo Intake was manufactured in "Sweat Shop" conditions... Priceless. The real Jewel of this all is that after reading that load of horseshit someone actually clicked "Add to cart"
Did you know?
The DPS was developed by ex-NASCAR® driver; Kazuteru Wakida. He has raced in events such as the Coca Cola 500®, along-side Jeff Gordon and others.
The head of research and development, Gerhard W. Rickert, is a graduate of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.
The Direct Power System is internationally patented. This means it really works. (Patent# 2002-109831)
The Direct Power System was developed in laboratories, with millions of dollars in research.
The Direct Power System is professionally assembled in Japan under strict conditions, unlike other parts which are made in Taiwan and China in "sweat shop" conditions.
Top automobile manufacturers have attempted developing similar units as the DPS, but K&G was the first to create and patent this technology.
The DPS is the single hottest item in Japan since its public release 1 year ago.
The DPS has appeared in almost every automotive performance magazine in Japan, and is soon to follow a similar path in the United States.
The DPS is 100% water and dust proof. For vehicles with scoops or openings on the hood, the DPS will be 100% safe, and can be submerged under water and still function normally "
I wonder if my Pilo Intake was manufactured in "Sweat Shop" conditions... Priceless. The real Jewel of this all is that after reading that load of horseshit someone actually clicked "Add to cart"
6th Gear
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 3,652
Likes: 6
From: Lansdale, PA
Jims5543 wrote:
Are you implying that there isn't really any "Radical Technology" inside here?
I am still not convinced of the Plasma Booster all the Mini guys are buying. I think I was a dyno sheet with a 1hp change on it. Thats not enough for me to want to buy it.
Coordinator :: Alabama Motoring Society & South East
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 10,170
Likes: 2
From: Burning-Ham Alabama
Outrageous! What I would really like to see is some posts by 350Z owners who installed it and wrote about what a huge difference it made in peformance!
Although if I had the ethical values that would allow me to offer such a fine product, I would double my profit margin by not wasting my good money on fuses. I would just use a straight piece of wire going into and out if the black box.
I would be happy to do an independent test and dissection of the plasma booster to determine exactly how the plasma is being boosted by the radical technology! If M7 would provide me with a unit, I will even pay for my own independent dyno testing prior to the dissection and will give an honest and objective review of the product on my stock MCS.
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Join us on Dec 6: Covered Bridge Cruise and Poker Run
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Although if I had the ethical values that would allow me to offer such a fine product, I would double my profit margin by not wasting my good money on fuses. I would just use a straight piece of wire going into and out if the black box.
I would be happy to do an independent test and dissection of the plasma booster to determine exactly how the plasma is being boosted by the radical technology! If M7 would provide me with a unit, I will even pay for my own independent dyno testing prior to the dissection and will give an honest and objective review of the product on my stock MCS.
_________________
B.A.M.A. (Birmingham Area MINI Association)
Join us on Dec 6: Covered Bridge Cruise and Poker Run
<a href=https://www.northamericanmotoring.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=phpBB_14&file= index&action=viewforum&forum=47>B.A.M.A . Club Forum
Thread Starter
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3rd Gear
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 206
Likes: 37
From: Jensen Beach, FloRida
Umm. Its for ALL cars you can put it in your mini if you want. It took these couple of 350Z owners to figure out it was a rip off.
I would love to see what is inside a Plasma Booster now that I have seen this.
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/t149285.html
The developers speak of it working in there test Ferrari too.
I would love to see what is inside a Plasma Booster now that I have seen this.
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/t149285.html
The developers speak of it working in there test Ferrari too.
OVERDRIVE - Racing Champion
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,262
Likes: 72
From: Mililani, Hawaii
Maybe someone should open or xray the PB?
Maybe the writing on the PB cover should read:
Technology Unit (for) Radical(s)
Ah but does the DPS have pretty lights? Maybe the fuse has special mind control properties that forces the driver to think that the 350Z is really a fast MINI?
Oh well. You only live once. Can I sell you some used "sea monkeys"??
Thanks for sharing the info on this obvious scam. (referring to the DPS)
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ALOHA
Maybe the writing on the PB cover should read:
Technology Unit (for) Radical(s)
Ah but does the DPS have pretty lights? Maybe the fuse has special mind control properties that forces the driver to think that the 350Z is really a fast MINI?
Oh well. You only live once. Can I sell you some used "sea monkeys"??
Thanks for sharing the info on this obvious scam. (referring to the DPS)
_________________
ALOHA
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,062
Likes: 1
From: Boston, MA
They could have at least put a Cracker Jack prize in there, or something... What I want to know is, do these people have any hope of getting their money back, or do you forfeit your consumer rights when you fall for such obvious garbage?"The DPS has appeared in almost every automotive performance magazine in Japan, and is soon to follow a similar path in the United States."
I mean, that's just priceless!
Former Vendor
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,594
Likes: 2
From: los angeles
Good Morning.....
Please do not mix up the DPS unit with the M7 Plasma Booster, the DPS unit is obviously a rip of.............But did anyone
consider the possibility that you bought a counterfeight unit?????
To smack talk our product is not fair do you think!!
And no I'm not pulling the thread.....sorry, because we have nothing to hide period. As a matter of fact why dont you
guy's pool your money buy a unit X-RAY it, take it apart rip in to it's innards expose the electronics....I don't mind.
every part and the utility of the patent is rock solid so you can't replicate the unit.
Now let's see if you can prove the missguided point that there's a "decoder ring" inside the M7-PB
And as always call me if you have any questions...
peter horvath
562-712-3270
Please do not mix up the DPS unit with the M7 Plasma Booster, the DPS unit is obviously a rip of.............But did anyone
consider the possibility that you bought a counterfeight unit?????
To smack talk our product is not fair do you think!!
And no I'm not pulling the thread.....sorry, because we have nothing to hide period. As a matter of fact why dont you
guy's pool your money buy a unit X-RAY it, take it apart rip in to it's innards expose the electronics....I don't mind.
every part and the utility of the patent is rock solid so you can't replicate the unit.
Now let's see if you can prove the missguided point that there's a "decoder ring" inside the M7-PB
And as always call me if you have any questions...
peter horvath
562-712-3270
Moderator :: Performance Mods
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,427
Likes: 6
From: A Den in Maryland
Props to Peter for not only having ***** enough to tell people to dive into his product to see that it was legitimate or not, but having sense of humor about the whole thing.
Two good qualities.
Two good qualities.
4th Gear
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 571
Likes: 0
i know it's an international patent #, however, it may be this link:
Patent Number
Unfortunately, I'm at work and can't get the plug in, if anyone sees it, what is it?
Patent Number
Unfortunately, I'm at work and can't get the plug in, if anyone sees it, what is it?
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,882
Likes: 0
From: Wyckoff, NJ
>>I LOVE this bit....
>>
>>Did you know?
>>
>>The DPS was developed by ex-NASCAR® driver; Kazuteru Wakida. He has raced in events such as the Coca Cola 500®, along-side Jeff Gordon and others.
>>
>>The head of research and development, Gerhard W. Rickert, is a graduate of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.
>>
>>The Direct Power System is internationally patented. This means it really works. (Patent# 2002-109831)
>>
>>The Direct Power System was developed in laboratories, with millions of dollars in research.
>>
>>The Direct Power System is professionally assembled in Japan under strict conditions, unlike other parts which are made in Taiwan and China in "sweat shop" conditions.
>>
>>Top automobile manufacturers have attempted developing similar units as the DPS, but K&G was the first to create and patent this technology.
>>
>>The DPS is the single hottest item in Japan since its public release 1 year ago.
>>
>>The DPS has appeared in almost every automotive performance magazine in Japan, and is soon to follow a similar path in the United States.
>>
>>The DPS is 100% water and dust proof. For vehicles with scoops or openings on the hood, the DPS will be 100% safe, and can be submerged under water and still function normally "
>>
>>
>>
>>I wonder if my Pilo Intake was manufactured in "Sweat Shop" conditions... Priceless. The real Jewel of this all is that after reading that load of horseshit someone actually clicked "Add to cart"
>>
No... The Pilo Racing Intake was made in the USA right here in NJ. LoL.. and I was there to inspect the working conditions, so I can verify this.. LOL...
That is a huge rip off by that company.... bet they made some good cash though..
Thanks
Dan
Pilo Racing
>>
>>Did you know?
>>
>>The DPS was developed by ex-NASCAR® driver; Kazuteru Wakida. He has raced in events such as the Coca Cola 500®, along-side Jeff Gordon and others.
>>
>>The head of research and development, Gerhard W. Rickert, is a graduate of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.
>>
>>The Direct Power System is internationally patented. This means it really works. (Patent# 2002-109831)
>>
>>The Direct Power System was developed in laboratories, with millions of dollars in research.
>>
>>The Direct Power System is professionally assembled in Japan under strict conditions, unlike other parts which are made in Taiwan and China in "sweat shop" conditions.
>>
>>Top automobile manufacturers have attempted developing similar units as the DPS, but K&G was the first to create and patent this technology.
>>
>>The DPS is the single hottest item in Japan since its public release 1 year ago.
>>
>>The DPS has appeared in almost every automotive performance magazine in Japan, and is soon to follow a similar path in the United States.
>>
>>The DPS is 100% water and dust proof. For vehicles with scoops or openings on the hood, the DPS will be 100% safe, and can be submerged under water and still function normally "
>>
>>
>>
>>I wonder if my Pilo Intake was manufactured in "Sweat Shop" conditions... Priceless. The real Jewel of this all is that after reading that load of horseshit someone actually clicked "Add to cart"
>>
No... The Pilo Racing Intake was made in the USA right here in NJ. LoL.. and I was there to inspect the working conditions, so I can verify this.. LOL...
That is a huge rip off by that company.... bet they made some good cash though..
Thanks
Dan
Pilo Racing
6th Gear
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 4,831
Likes: 1
From: Phoenix, AZ
>>Props to Peter for not only having ***** enough to tell people to dive into his product to see that it was legitimate or not, but having sense of humor about the whole thing.
>>
>>Two good qualities.
You are quite right Greatbear. On a related note, it's suprising when people have challenged him on-line, Peter says to call him on the phone. I've spoken to Peter on the phone about possible participation in A Mini Vacation In Vegas and can say he's a good guy. I hope he does come out to Vegas to meet and greet with MINI people.
>>
>>Two good qualities.
You are quite right Greatbear. On a related note, it's suprising when people have challenged him on-line, Peter says to call him on the phone. I've spoken to Peter on the phone about possible participation in A Mini Vacation In Vegas and can say he's a good guy. I hope he does come out to Vegas to meet and greet with MINI people.
Banned
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
>>Maybe someone should open or xray the PB?
>>Maybe the writing on the PB cover should read:
>>Technology Unit (for) Radical(s)
>>Ah but does the DPS have pretty lights? Maybe the fuse has special mind control properties that forces the driver to think that the 350Z is really a fast MINI?
>>Oh well. You only live once. Can I sell you some used "sea monkeys"?? :smile:
>>Maybe the writing on the PB cover should read:
>>Technology Unit (for) Radical(s)
>>Ah but does the DPS have pretty lights? Maybe the fuse has special mind control properties that forces the driver to think that the 350Z is really a fast MINI?
>>Oh well. You only live once. Can I sell you some used "sea monkeys"?? :smile: