Huh?

 

I'm saying it's OEM rubber and people are saying it sucks because it can't compare with the world's stickiest conventional tire. I'm also saying the tire is more than adequate to perform its intended purpose, and considering you have no spare, it's the best solution for real world driving. When my RFs wear out, I'll replace them with the RF Bridgestones (or whatever's the best at the time). I have Dunlop SP Sport 9000s now, and I also had a 2002 Audi A4 Quattro with non-runflat Dunlop SP Sport 9000s, and here's two truths. 1) the non-runflats will be worn out just as quickly--I got 20K out of my set, and they were gone. 2) There's no detectable grip difference that I can tell. Both cars/tires were confidence inspiring. Traction is very good with my Dunlop RFs. The tires are also very predictable and the high speed feel (important here in Germany) is excellent. I can only imagine the Bridgestones will be even better. Bottomline, buy whatever you want. And if I were AutoXing the car, I'd have conventional rubber too, but that wasn't the situation. I can't wait to mount my Koni FSDs with my RFs. I'm betting all the heat the RFs take is mainly a characteristic of the stock shocks. We'll see...

 

Like I wrote above, compliance is shared by the springs, dampers and tires. You can soften any of these and the ride will more than likely improve.

If you figure that 25% of suspension compliance comes from the tires - and that's an engineering threshold by the way - there is much more to be gained by playing with springs and dampers. However, all three must exhibit frequencies that harmonize in the real world if they are to handle well, and, ride well.

BMW placed a high emphasis on the Mini's handling. Still, suspension R&D money isn't limitless and at some point the folks dangling the purse strings say stop. I believe this is the case with BMW; their cars have been lauded for the most incredible ride vs handling trade off for the last two decades. The Mini's suspension, in my opinion, is and will be an unfinished project...till the next one...

 

I still don't see shocks as a solution for the guy's tramlining... He found a solution (new tires) and apparently is happy with it...

Above was to Stevie B, but meb, if the huh was directed at my prior post I was just wondering what tires (rfs or not) when they do the runs to determine the published zero to 60 times for BMWs and Minis.

 

The point of a runflat on a high performance car is to allow a puncture at a higher speed and have the sidewall not disintegrate and support that car at a lower speed up to 150 miles and then be repaired.You cant and shouldnt do a comparison to a regular high performance tire because you are comparing apples and oranges .The run flat tire by design is heavier because it has more material to support the sidewall after deflation this isnt by choice this is the way they support the car and not have the tire run off the rim.Unfortunately if you talk to a tire manufacturer his biggest problem is getting a customer to even check tire pressure,never mind rotate tires,so they definitly build the tire to sustain the abuse.The stiff ride of the runflat is the result of its design to run flat, the short travel of the suspension ,and the stiff springs.Most people around here have a set of tires for the autox and or competition and another set for the daily commute.Celebrate the difference because they are designed for two different situations.

 

I'm not just trying to be contrary here, but rational -- I would argue that run-flats are ONLY a safer tire in the case of a puncture followed by an emergency handling situation. My all-season run flats were horrible in snow, which in my mind made them a much less safe tire than my current Dunlop non-run-flat peformance winter tires in adverse conditions (of course I do not have the comparison of a dedicated run-flat snow tire). I would also argue that a non-run-flat performance tire is better in an emergency handling situation that does not involve a puncture like a swerve or sudden stop because of the non-run-flats lighter weight and better roadhandling ability.

 

Totally agree on the snow - because you can't compare an all-terrain tire with a snow tire. That's why most folks in snow-land have a set of winter tires. So any comparison of the run-flats to a snow tire wouldn't be a valid comparison.

It's possible. But you would need hard data to back that up that would demonstrate that the higher performance tire for normal road conditions provides greater safety. What I keep going for here is that on this board, those of us who pursh our cars to the limit are not necessarily the average driver, so the tendency to tell folks "lose the runflats" is not necessarily the right approach. I think Mini owners need to embrace the run flat but understand their limits and know when they are good and when they are not.

 

I just bought a set of run-flat dedicated snow tires for the winter. Your comparison of ANY all-season tires (run-flat or not) against ANY winter tires (again, run-flat or not) for snow traction is utterly ridiculous. The "run-flatness" has nothing to do with the equation. Apples to oranges. A more interesting comparison would be to compare my run-flat winter tires against your non-run-flat winter tires... or better still, the exact same winter tires in both run-flat and regular versions (as some companies sell both - my Pirelli Winter 240 SnowSports come in both).

As for the run-flat vs. non-run-flat roadhandling ability, that debate continues... I still maintain my belief (remember, it's a belief, I'm not claiming God-like knowledge here, so it's until proven otherwise) that for handling ability, a stiffer sidewall is a benefit. That doesn't mean that you can ONLY get a stiff sidewall with run-flats, of course not... but it does guarantee that you will ALWAYS get a stiff sidewall with run-flats.

 

Points taken fellas. Based on the criteria that I deem important: performance, weight, cost, and safety -- I chose to lose the run-flats and will never go back to them until they are of comparible performance, price (they are significantly more expensive), and weight (e.g., people spend hundreds to lose a couple of pounds from their wheels, but arguably the weight of the tire is even more crucial because the tire is further from the hub -- and therefore has an even greater rotational effect than the wheels). For me the safety issue really is a wash...

 

and 52 lbs of unsprung weigh is a hefty change....

Matt

 

True, but the attack was on RFs and tramlining is a factor of tread design. Glad he's happy. I certainly don't think yours or my opinions should have any bearing on what he can or can't purchase, or what's he's allowed or not allowed to like. We're all just expressing opinions here and I reserve the right to express mine while I'm over here in Germany defending your right, but for some reason you won't rest until you have the definitive answer??? Anyway, time to agree to disagree and press on. I don't think he needed rescuing. As you say, he's happy. Ultimately, I just didn't find the action logical and therefore commented. I also find the wheel/tire weight debate interesting. Shaving weight is great, but some will spend upwards of $3000 to shave 10 pounds a corner, and claim it transformed the driving experience. Well, it didn't, but a step (albeit expensive) in the right direction (that had as much to do with appearance desires as performance gains). Here again, to each his own. To throw in my input, I'm of the opinion (key word) that more capable shocks would have an enhanced positive affect on tracking/cornering over real world surfaces than reduced unsprung weight with all else equal. Just opinions...you can put the gun down now! Let me know if I'm not allowed to have opinions and I'll stop.

Happy holidays...Cheers!

 

I'm all about people having their own opinions and discussing the pros and cons, but rather your response to the guy gave him no respect for his choice. Anyway, all I was saying was that you never addressed his main complaint in what you said, I never had a 'gun' pointed about it, I just didn't get how shocks or what you were saying addressed the issue. You talk about people having the right to their opinions but sorry, the attitude coming through was otherwise when people had their opinion about non runflats and I, and others, were just responding to that. You are welcome to your opinions of course - Cheers.

 

Hey Guys. I should rephrase in my previous title. about the RSC tyres. I dislike them. Its funny how so many guys here think I have a suspension problem,and they know the cure. I don't have a suspension problem. I know tyre pressure. I am a factory specialist for Mercedes Benz for 18 yrs this is what I do.I drive hot cars all day long. about the safety issue. With our mini's or any other car for that matter. If I blow a tire. since I dont have runflats any more. I am not going to drive it for 150 miles.
case in point. AMG E55 No runflats very safe car. Has a can of goop for the spare. A 90K Car. Gee what happened to safety @ a 120+ mph.


Some guys here may think I wasting my money. I don't think so, your right I am fresh with being a new mini owner. But If I am driving on the Hwy, and my car makes me feel nausous, I need to do something about it quicky. It really did have alot of side to side movement.
My tyre pressure were perfect. @ first when I picked up the car for deliver check the tyre pressure the next day cold. the darn things were 48 psi in the rear 38 in the fronts. I reset them to 33 psi all the way around. Still same problem. Around town was acceptable but the FWY it wondered too much. It stuck around turns with the runflats and w/o it still sticks. So bottom line if someone is experiencing what I was feeling on the FWY. and does not like the feel. Tires will cure it,not shocks not swaybars,or strut braces. Just tires.


My 2 cents thanks guys and gals. But Man what a great thread.

 

It hurts the eyes.

I agree with everything you just wrote. I didn't like 'em, but drove them till they were shot before going to something else. Both the other typed didn't track on the freeway, and near where I live there's even that groved concrete. The stock tires tracked very,very badly.

It's funny that a lot of people who don't agree with posts think that there is something fundimentally wrong with the original poster, either they're an idiot or didn't use the product correctly. I'm no expert driver, but I can feel when a tire is low by a few PSI on my car. And I ran at good pressures (but to be sure, the rear pressure doesn't matter nearly as much on the Mini as on some others), and I'm very happy I switched, and will never go back.

It's also fine that others like them too! Otherwise I couldn't have sold a set given to me!

Vive la differance!

Matt

 

I haven't driven our 06 MCS with anything but the factory 17" performance runflats (Dunlops), so I can't claim a comparison. That said, I have not had a negative experience with them. They handle fine, I have experienced no tramlining, the car corners like it's on rails, etc., etc. I will consider going with something else when replacement time comes along, but I can't see replacing brand new tires (with a retail value of nearly $1,000) with something else based on my experience so far.

 

You know what I was thinking maybe. It was the perrilli runflats. Thats what I have on my car. Other owners have dunlop and do not experience the same effect. Hmm just a thought





Happy Holidays



Guido

 

My test drive was in a '04 MCS. I live just 1 mile from Autobahn-6 in western Germany so I went straight to it and blasted down the road at 125 mph. That car had Pirelli Euforia runflats and it tramlined a little (Autobahns are far superior to American highways in terms of smoothness and construction). Nonetheless I didn't like the Euforias (and didn't want the Goodyears) and knew I wanted the summer Dunlops anyway (which I had on a Audi A4 and loved). What I didn't like about the "runflats suck" statement is the bandwagon affect. Same applies with Ducati in regards to rocker arm failures ("they'll all fail--it's just a matter of when" -- BS). You can't mention it without a hoard of people jumping in to state fiction as fact. Anyway, I was more perturbed at the ensuing off-topic chaos as opposed to the theme of your post. Yes, runflat bashing sets me off a bit if and when there's no logic behind the statements, just emotion (generally speaking) or passing someone else's thoughts along. I'm not here to be the savior for runflats. They are what they are. But they don't suck just because they're runflats. I will replace mine with the Bridgestone runflats when needed. I don't compromise when it comes to tires, and if runflats are the chosen breed for MINIs, then I'll choose whatever's best at the time. Don't worry, I'm in theapy.

Merry Christmas!
Cheers!

 

My Pirelli run-flats are horrible. The tramlining problem is quite serious and I have to hold onto my steering wheel pretty tight all the time. Even my wife is complaining about it (which she drives the car more than I do). I guess I will have to think of changing them very soon.

 

From what people with Euforias have said, the tramlining goes away quite a bit as the tire wears in. Make sure your tires are at the proper PSI too. Mine (Dunlop SP Sport 9000s) came at 38 PSI from the dealer, so I reduced it to 33 PSI right away. I don't think the PSI will affect Tramlining too much, but I'd set everything to "stock" to remove the other variables. How many miles do you have on them? I have 3100 on my Dunlops and I have no complaints. I understand the Bridgestones are far closer to the characteristics of conventional tires. Can't wait to hear some testimonials.

 

Stevie, thanks for your advise. I will try to adjust/check my tire pressure. My car is less than 1 week old, we have only put 80 miles on it so far. As I've mentioned above, my wife drives the car more than I do, I dont want to hear her complaining every other day about the steering. So, I guess I probably won't wait until the tramlining issue goes away by itself (if it ever will and who knows when that will be). Thats why I started another thread asking members to recommend some of the better non-RF tires that they have used. Please feel free to chime in!

 

I have been very happy with the performance of my factory runflats (Dunlop SP Sport 9000s), and I just bought a set of runflat winter tires (Pirelli Winter 240 SnowSport RFT) that I am very happy with as well.

The winter tires don't bite as well as my performance tires on dry pavement (duh!), but they do feel fine otherwise, and I'm looking forward to really tearing it up on snow when the next storm hits!

 

http://www.tirerack.com/survey/Surve...045WR7RE050AXL

 

Hi Steve. I rephrased it> its sucks ) to dislike in my last post. Thanks for the comment. Tell me how do you like the LSD. I screwed up and forgot to order it. I don't track my car, I just like driving through the canyons here in southern calif. So I am just curious. Do you track yours do you see a advantage or disadvantage for having your LSD.

As you read I installed P Zero's and very .
I was in germany a few Yrs back. I trained out in Stugartt. Underturkheim<is that right. Aslo toured Alfalterbach. Trianed @ Lorinser and a few other tuners in the Swabian areas.


See you happy holidays.


Guido

 

Hey, why you lookin' at me?

They make for a cheap (if heavy) set for track days, so I don't have to fret about trashing my everyday tires.
And when they're worn out, I'll sell the rims to somebody who can't resist the lure of 17" wheels for cheap!

 

And they just keep on rolling! Glad you're happy. My neighbor was very surprised when I walked over to his house and gave him half your green!

Matt