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I've been combing the forums for a few days looking for info pertaining to running 235/40/17's. There's a few guys who seem to have successfully done it without wider fenders or any trimming. But, I haven't seen anyone specifically mentioning track use. I'm wondering if anyone has been through some high speed corners while on track with this size in an R56 or even better a GP2 and not had rubbing.
I've always run 215/45/17 on BBS RGR's for my track setup on both the GP2 and my previous 07 R56 S. The GP has just got quite a bit of wheel spin and I've been thinking it would be awesome to get some rubber on there. I've been thinking I'd go with NM RSe05's too, if I go for this. I'm actually really bummed at the idea of selling those BBS wheels I love them. But, that's another story... Anyhow, just would love to hear some feedback from anyone who has made this work on track or has some helpful info to share.
Fitting wider sized tires depends on the offset of the wheel. The best offset range for this size tires is staying between 40-45mm. Going outside this range will have you rubbing on the inner strut or outter edge of the fender.
There a bunch of threads on this if you do a search on "235/40/17", ive seen several posts from ppl running this size (isamin, v10climber, tigger2011)
Jeez... thought I covered all of that in the original post... The NM wheels I mention are pretty well known and et45. Just looking for some insight specifically pertaining to being on track with that setup. In my searching, I've seen a lot of posts by the three members you mentioned. None of the posts I have come across have discussed that setup on track.
235/40 tires need at least 8" rims! Just check the requirements of any tire manufacturer.
235/40 is perfect on 7,5" for spending time in traffic jams when everybody can see your wide tires. But on track they won't work properly on 7,5". And I bet that narrower tires 215/40, 215/45 on 7,5" rims will outperform them on track.
Even when all the tires (215/40, 215/45, 235/40) are mounted on 8" rims it's questionable whether the wider tires are faster on MNI. But with 8" I would try 235/40. And of course which tire is faster depends on track.
Not sure if I missed it, but what is the width of those NM wheels? That will also make a difference on whether they will rub.
I know it is not exactly the setup that you have, but I have run, on the track, 225-45x17 Toyo R888 on Enkei 7” wide wheels with 45 ET and the outside of the rear tires rub on the plastic wheel well liner. And in the front the tires are only about 1/4” from the springs. These tires should be a bit narrower than what you are looking at. Another difference I have is that the springs are the basic MINI springs, not the smaller coilovers that you have on the GP. Not sure if that plays into you having more clearance up front or not.
Another note is that, in my experience, the 225 tire width is too much for the 7” wide wheel and on the track there is too much tire roll to get full benefit from this size tire. Toyo says that the min wheel width is 7” for their 225 tire, but I think that the tire on that size wheel needs more camber than I have (-1.5 deg). I get about the same lap times with my 215-45x17s as I do out of the 225s. So, for me, no reason to go to the wider and more expensive tire.
As for wheel spin, I expect that would be your inside wheel coming out of a corner. The eLSD that MINI uses is pretty useless at controlling that. Your best option for controlling wheel spin is a mechanical LSD. Another option is to try a more aggressive brake pad with the setup you have.
There's some decent advice! Appreciate it. Very valid points. The NM wheels are 7.5" wide. So far I've run Falken Azenis RT615k, Yoko Ad08r, and Federal 595RSR-RR on the GP on track; all in 215/45/17. Honestly, for the money, I've been really impressed with the Federal's too btw.
<Another note is that, in my experience, the 225 tire width is too much for the 7” wide wheel and on the track there is too much tire roll to get full benefit from this size tire.>
Definitely shared that experience. 215's seem right on the edge of too much tire roll on a 7" wide wheel.
Anyhow, seems like 8" wheels are really needed. Also seems likely that 235/40/17 on 8" wide wheels IS going to rub. Furthermore, sounds like wider fenders would really have to happen to do this. Maybe I'll try some grippier 215's. RE-71's or Rival's... Perhaps running a stickier 215 might prove to be a better solution than a 235 Federal (I was planning to run Federals again).
Regarding the wheel spin, it's not so much coming out of corners; more sort of general torque steer I suppose. The car just seems to be on the edge of useable power vs. available grip. Btw, the eLSD in the GP is surprisingly not bad, considering the vectoring format it's utilizing. Although I completely agree, I would love to get a mechanical LSD in there. If I have the car long enough, it'll definitely happen. I drove the car on track once with the nannies on. It was twitchy as hell. Took them off and couldn't believe the difference. Haven't looked back since.
With the Manic Stage 2, you must be making some pretty good power and likely tires will be limiting no matter which you buy. Not something I worry about with a stock S... I give high marks to the RE71Rs. The feel on them is as good as it get; very sharp and precise. Traction is on par with a R-comp. These are better than the Dunlop ZIIs and the AD08s I have run. And the price is better than the Rivals.
With 7.5” wide wheels, an option might be 215-40x17. You will get more rubber on the road and they should be a good match to the wheel width. However, the tire height will less which will give you shorter gearing and about 10% more torque at the contact patch, so this might not be helpful in what you are trying to accomplish. But something to think about.
A little off topic, but does your “Nanny” button have 3 settings? Mine has the “startup mode”, which is full on; if I push and release, I get the “traction” mode (this shows up in the middle of the speedometer); then if I push, hold and then release it turns it all off. On the tracks around here I run in “traction” mode as the guardrails are really close, very hard and it gives me the best chance of driving the car back home if the person in front of me does something stupid in the middle of a turn (not like that has never happened to me before) or I am driving in a monsoon. I do get some feed back from it, but it is subtle.
Sorry for that delay... I run pretty regularly at Sebring, Roebling Road, Homestead, Palm Beach Intl. and Daytona. I was actually at Sebring this last weekend. Pulled down a 1:18 on the club course! I've been pretty excited about it
Side note about the Federal 595RSR-RR's: They're directional. I've heard of friends running RE71's in reverse just fine.. So I tried running the Federal's in reverse to squeak out some more life. Bad idea. Steering response went out the window. It felt like I was on track in a cushy Lincoln town car or something. Very creepy. I immediately went in and flipped them all back around.
Anyhow, thanks again for the feedback. Mind if I ask how many track days you've gotten out of the RE71R's? I did a quick search on tire rack for availability in 215/40/17... It's very slim pickings in that size. Seems 215/45/17 is what I'll stick with for now. I had a really great conversation over the weekend with a guy tracking 245/40/17 upfront on 17x9 et20 and 225/45/17 in rear on 17x8.5 et10. Pretty insane setup on an R56. But, it definitely sounds like fender flares and 8" wide wheels are imperative to go bigger.
To answer your question about nannies; yes. my car has three settings. Normal (all on) then "GP Mode" (nannies off but elec. diff. on) and lastly everything off.
Wow, those are totally different nanny settings than I have. It is interesting how MINI plays with the computer codes for each of these cars. My middle setting is called “Traction”. For me, it should be called “Track Day”.
Boy, you have a nice selection of tracks to go to. Not sure I would want to beat up on my MINI by going to Sebring, but I guess being one of the classic old tracks, its bumps are part of the challenge to driving it well. My local tracks are Lime Rock and Watkins Glen. There are some “Club” tracks that have opened around here but they are not like the the classic old tracks.
As for the RE-71Rs, I probably have 8 or so days on them and I am not down to the wear bars. In talking to some Bridgestone Reps, they said that these tires wear fast at first and then the wear rate slows down. That is what I am seeing. I say probably as I have 3 sets of track tires and I don’t keep good records of when I use each. My RE-71Rs are 15” and the smaller wheel size works best on the short tracks I go to. I run the Dunlop ZIIs (rain) and R888s (dry) at Watkins Glen. All 3 of these tires are directional and I have run all of them “backwards” with no issues.
Last edited by Eddie07S; 08-01-2018 at 07:15 AM.
Reason: typo
Lime Rock and Watkins Glen are two super awesome tracks! Watkins is definitely a bucket list track for me. I really want to do Barber as well. Barber and Road Atlanta are both in the near future for me.
Honestly, the Sebring club coarse really isn't too bumpy. The big bumps are down by 17 and 1. I usually try to do the full course about 2 or 3 times a season. We run the club course a lot more though. The Mini does great there. Point and squirt, lol. It's murder on brakes though (as we've been discussing in that other thread, lol). There's just no time for them to cool. I destroyed two sets of calipers there on my last mini before finally biting the bullet and getting into a BBK solution that could take it. Full course is a totally different situation. Plenty of cool down time. But yeah man, If you ever get an opportunity to run Sebring in a Mini, I highly recommend it. You'll love it.
Awesome info about the RE-71's. I think 8 days is really good and running them reverse is definitely a plus. I think to date, the best I've gotten was 7 and a half days out of a set of Falken Azenis. I'm going to take one of the two decent federals I have right now and get it flipped on the wheel. Then I'm going to buy two new Federals and put them up front while I leave the older ones in the rear. Two of them aren't too heat cycled yet and they've got a bit of useable tread left. Hopefully I can squeak 5 days out of that setup and then it's a new set of RE-71's all the day around, lol. Oh tracking on a budget... lol. On the subject; have you by chance had any experience with Hankook Ventus R-S4's? I hear they're grip is close to RE71's but they tend to last a bit longer. They're direction as well though and I haven't heard anything about running them in reverse. But, apparently they're all the rage. They're sold out for the rest of the season on the rack.
I'm trying to get a harness bar solution happening right now. That's my current "mod" project. I had a harness in my last car and I really miss it. Makes such a huge difference. I've found one on Amazon that looks like it might be worth a try... Anyhow, drifting off thread topic. Thanks again for the info!
I’m sure you have seen my posts of how brutal I think WGI is on brakes, and the need for HP on that track...
LRP, on the other hand, is a very MINI S friendly track; easy on brakes but hard on that left front tire as all but one turn are to the right. Also, you get to see a lot of great cars there if the LRP Club is running.
I have had no experience with the Hankooks. Tire Rack always has them in their tests and they do well in the dry. I have asked people about them, and they tend to like them.
The GP has no rear seat, but I thought it still has the bolt holes (mounting points) for the rear safety belts. If that is the case then you are better off with getting the 2 center buckles for the rear seat mounts from a junker and getting a Schroth Quickfit harness. These are DOT street legal and have submergence prevention built into them so you don’t need a 5 or 6 point harness. If you go with a harness bar you will need to have a 5 or 6 point harness and make someway for the center strap to go through the seat. I run the Pro version of the Quick Fit and really like them. These also will accept a 5th belt so they can be used with a race seat.
Last edited by Eddie07S; 08-02-2018 at 11:37 AM.
Reason: typo
I'm not sure if it has the bolt holes, but, I imagine it probably does. The GP's have a hideaway compartment with a flip-up lid right there though. I think it would actually be a bit of an episode to remove all that. Ironically, I just sold a set of quickfits too. That was what I was running in the last car. Loved them. I know they have that anti-sub tech supposedly built in, but, they still make me nervous... So I had been thinking about just doing a bar and a proper 5 point this go around. I have another friend with a GP that made a Cipher bar and the sub strap work with just a little modding. So I'm thinking about giving that a go.
No Worries! Here's a photo of how my friend did it. He used .125 aluminum to span the contact points. Sub strap is attached at center. Apparently, driver and passenger are two different measurements.
And come up and through the slot between the back and bottom?
Personally, I would use steel for the strength. I would be afraid that when the strap pulls up on the bar in an accident that the bar will rip out from under the seat rail bolts. The force pulling up gets magnified when it translates to lateral motion when you are at a very shallow angle like that is. On the other hand I would totally overdesign it with a 1.5” x 0.5” steel tube that went over the top of the seat rails, with a spacer down to the bolt hole and a nice new longer 10.5 (Grade 8) bolt for each side. You know, something that you could lift the car up with...
Yeah, he came right up between the seat bottom and back with the strap.
Your idea sounds really good! I was originally thinking of possibly using steel flat bar (instead of aluminum) but honestly, your tube steel idea sounds pretty good. May have to give that a go. I'll report back with pics. I'll probably end up posting a harness bar thread over in the GP section as I haven't really been able to find much info on here.
Do you have a “Metal Supermarket” near you? That is where I get my metal and a lot of times I can use “drops” or “ends” which they sell for 50 cents a pound. A lot less expensive and much better selection than going to a big box place.
Yeah, I have an awesome "metal supermarket" near me. I actually even have a full metal shop at my disposal and I know how to weld decently I know this has drifted a bit off topic; but... I've actually stalled a bit on the harness project. I was ready to pull the trigger on a Cipher universal bar and I started reading creepy stories about freak accidents with harness bars and harnesses with no roll protection. So I've been contemplating other options. Looks like it's basically just $300 more to do a sneed 4 point hoop. So I've ben thinking about that. Man, I don't know that I really want a full-on roll bar in my car though. Seems like a terrible idea in terms of resale. Although, GP2's are just obscure enough and geared so towards the weekend tracker, that perhaps it would be an added selling point. I don't know. I'm not even completely sure the Cipher bar will work either. It was going to be an experiment. I've definitely decided if I do anything, it'll be a 6 point harness not 5. Ugh, I wish there were an easy answer to this. Man I miss being harnessed in though.. An thoughts on the subject Eddie? ..Or anyone else..
Funny you should mention that. I've actually got a CGlock in there right now. It definitely does help. Honestly it's going to sound a little crazy but, I think fitting a quick fit in there would actually be more difficult than doing a 4 point or a harness bar because of the GP's little hidden rear compartment config and the lack of rear belt latches. Here's a view from the rear hatch. I'm holding the lid partially open..
In the picture, where that lid is that you are holding, it appears that they have added a liner to make the bottom of that compartment area. You will need to remove that liner and look for the seat belt mounts under that. Have you looked to see how hard it would be to remove that lid and the liner below it? I would have thought that BMW/MINI would have made that pair of pieces easy to install or remove for a one-off car like the GP.
I am not a fan of drilling holes in a car, unless it is going to be turned into a full track car. As you say, there goes the resale and track mod costs are never recouped when doing a resale, nor are they a particularly attractive resale point to most people. The roll bar is a good idea, but as you not they are not easy to do. And the addition of a 6 point harness with stock seats is further complications. I have had instructors not want to use the Quickfit because of the potential roll over issue, but I have never heard of that being an issue with MINIs given how strong they are. So, my thought is that issue is low risk (I have run the Quickfit for years with that thought) and I would poke around a little more for those mounts before looking at doing a bar and a 6 point harness .
Have you tried the “cheat” harness? Slide your seat back 2 or 3 inches from where you drive with it, and buckle the belt. Then yank on the shoulder strap part to activate the inertia lock. While still holding the belt locked, slide the seat forward to your normal driving position. You should be tightly strapped in.
17X8s are best with a 215 Federal. They run wide. You could squeeze a 225 competitor on if you chose, but only for track days, not autocross. The additional tire flex won't overcome the additional footprint to make it worthwhile.
I've ran 215/45 Federal 595RSRR multiple times at Sebring Raceway, Homestead Speedway and PBIR. I'm now switching to 215/40. This is on 17X8 Advanti's. I toyed with the idea of 235/40 Federals due to the insignificant price difference. But 8.5+ is mandatory to avoid pinching.
It's on a R56 S with M Factory differential, Manic Stage 3 with Alta turbo.
Dr. Spade: I think this is Terrence, right? If so, hey man! You're actually the guy that turned me onto the idea of trying the Federals to begin with. We talked about it in FB messenger... This is Ian in Central Florida. The Federals have been pretty awesome for the money. I'm a little disappointed I haven't gotten more life out of them. But otherwise, they have performed a lot better than I even expected for sure. Thanks for this extra info too. You might recall, I actually asked you about running them in reverse too. You advised against it. I tried it anyhow, lol. Terrible idea. I just flipped the federal's on the wheels so I can get a couple more days out of them and I went ahead and ordered a set of RE71's to try next. I've pretty much come to the realization, it's 215's for me for the time being. Maybe I'll pull the trigger on fender flares and 8" or 8.5" wheels down the road so I can run 235's.
Hey Eddie,
Your assessment of my photo is correct. That lid is part of a hidden compartment that basically occupies the rear seat pan. When it's closed, the car essentially looks like it just has an aftermarket rear seat delete. They've just utilized those seat pans areas for extra storage. I've aways that it was actually a pretty cool idea. Anyhow, it looks like at the very least, the side panels have to come out to get it all out. It definitely looks more involved than the typical removal of an R56 back seat. I honestly think that both the harness bar or bolting in a four point hoop options would be a bit easier than removing all this compartment stuff and then getting rear seat buckles mounted for quick fits, etc. I have also tried the "cheat" harness you speak of too. I've never had good luck keepng it engaged though. I always seem to somehow move around enough for the inertia lock to disengage. I think I'm going to have to ponder this all more. I may just put the whole idea on the back burner until the season is over :-/
17X8s are best with a 215 Federal. They run wide. You could squeeze a 225 competitor on if you chose, but only for track days, not autocross. The additional tire flex won't overcome the additional footprint to make it worthwhile.
I've ran 215/45 Federal 595RSRR multiple times at Sebring Raceway, Homestead Speedway and PBIR. I'm now switching to 215/40. This is on 17X8 Advanti's. I toyed with the idea of 235/40 Federals due to the insignificant price difference. But 8.5+ is mandatory to avoid pinching.
It's on a R56 S with M Factory differential, Manic Stage 3 with Alta turbo.
What offset do your wheels have? And what springs and shocks are you running? I have a set of 225-45-17 R888s and they rub in the rear with 7” wide rims and a 45mm ET. Stock sport springs and Bilstein B8 shocks. Because of that, I would have never considered 235s. But with stiff enough springs maybe the tires wouldn’t get into the wheel well to rub?
07-18-2018, 07:06 PM
I love them. But, that's another story... Anyhow, just would love to hear some feedback from anyone who has made this work on track or has some helpful info to share.
I know this has drifted a bit off topic; but... I've actually stalled a bit on the harness project. I was ready to pull the trigger on a Cipher universal bar and I started reading creepy stories about freak accidents with harness bars and harnesses with no roll protection. So I've been contemplating other options. Looks like it's basically just $300 more to do a sneed 4 point hoop. So I've ben thinking about that. Man, I don't know that I really want a full-on roll bar in my car though. Seems like a terrible idea in terms of resale. Although, GP2's are just obscure enough and geared so towards the weekend tracker, that perhaps it would be an added selling point. I don't know. I'm not even completely sure the Cipher bar will work either. It was going to be an experiment. I've definitely decided if I do anything, it'll be a 6 point harness not 5. Ugh, I wish there were an easy answer to this. Man I miss being harnessed in though.. An thoughts on the subject Eddie? ..Or anyone else.. 
