I change/rotate tires enough that I don't have a problem breaking my lug bolts free. The problem is that most of them will spin free after breaking them loose, but for some I need to keep removing them with a wrench (with a fair amount of effort) as they just don't seam to free up only near the end. Likewise, when installing them, all go on by hand a number of turns (so I no I am not cross threading). Most I can hand thread down till they hit the wheel, but again, some get tight very fast and I need to use a wrench to put them on.

The worst is that as I torqued 2 of them up to the correct torque, they actual "slipped" just a bit and then I was able to get to the correct torque setting. It was like they were sticking and let go but not let go as in a stripped thread since they torqued up to the correct spec.

I don't want to use anti-seize as I understand that changes the torque setting, plus I don't have what I think of a seizing problem since the initial "break free" is normal.

So (long winded post eh?), the bolts have a bunch or rust on them. Should I just clean that off with steal wool or something? Is there some type of plating on the bolts that I need to be careful not to remove? What is the general care and feeding of lug bolts anyway?

Thanks in advance!

 

I would say use a small, fine wire brush and run it in the lug bores in the brakes and through the hub and see what kind of crud you can clear out. That, and maybe try to replace the lugs. New ones with better thread quality may help.You could also try and find a thread cleaner. You know, kind of like a tap and die but instead of cutting threads it just cleans them.

 

yah, just use a wire brush to remove the crud sounds good.

 

I have a bench grinder with a wire wheel on one side. I clean the threads on the lug bolts with the wire wheel. IMO it isn't the threads in the hub causing problems it's the end of the lug bolts that stick out the back of the hub a bit.

 

Well my lug bolts continued to feel worse and worse each time I rotated/changed tires. There wasn't much rust, but what was there I took off with a wire brush and things felt only a little better but still not correct.

Well today the lug bolts did me in. I successfully rotated the passenger tires, but when it came to the the driver side, I sheared 2 lug bolts off the rear taking them off! How can that happen? I always torque to spec. I only change/rotate tires about 5 times a year. I don't think that is too excessive.

So my MCS is at Bill Jacobs and I wait to see what they are going to say after inspecting the car on Monday. To be safe, on my note to them, I asked them to replace all 16 lug bolts.

I'd really like to find out why that happened so it doesn't happen again. I know I could go the studs route, but I'd like to keep the bolts. If I don't get a definite answer as to what happened, I might just end up buying new lug bolts every year and a half or so just to be safe.

 

My guess is that sometime in those lug bolts life they had been stretched. Most likely with an impact gun. Let us know how this works out for you.

 

yah, almost sounds like the hub is cross threaded...

 

Crashton, that's part of the mystery. I bought the car new and no one else has worked on the tires/wheels. My first dealer service was just an oil change due to my very low millage. When I got new tires and wheels, I had a shop mount the tires, but I put the wheels on my car. So if anyone did anything wrong, it would be me. I don't understand that though as I only use hand tools and set the torque with a beam torque wrench. Can those go out of adjustment? That far out of adjustment? The needle is on zero at rest. The 90 pounds I tighten to doesn't take much effort. I don't tighten them when the are hot (after driving). I hope to get to the bottom of the mystery so this doesn't happen in the future.

Ken, all the lug bolts feel bad and squeak horribly when removing. Considering I start them all by hand and run them in by hand as far as I can, I can't imagine having cross threaded all of them. Thanks for the input. It is all appreciated. If I did cross thread them I guess I'll have to go to screwing school ... oops, that doesn't sound right

 

This is a strange one. I believe you when you say you hand torque them correctly. Yes torque wrenches do go out of adjustment, but I can't fathom one going that far out & you would be able to tell if it was.

If the lug bolts were cross threaded you'd have never gotten them in using hand tools. It would have gone in a bit & bound up.

What I've noticed on my car is that the lug bolts protrude just a bit past the back side of the hub. That portion of the lug bolt gets gunked up. That is what I'm cleaning with the wire wheel. How old is your MINI? Are you seeing corrosion on the last thread or two of the lug bolts. That could cause the roughness in threading in & out.

A clue....

I just reread your original post. I missed this clue the first time around. What you felt here was the classic symptom of a bolt failing. The slipping that you felt was the bolts stretching. I wonder if those were the two same bolts that broke for you. I'm thinking they are.



What brand of torque wrench are you using & how old is it?

 

yah, but as you mentioned earlier, if they used an impact gun the bolt
could've made new threads. i doubt it.


anyway, it shouldnt be like that. hope the dealer fixes/cleans the hub and
gives you new bolts.

 

Crashton,
I bought my MSC new in June of 2006. My bolts stick out the back a bit too. The rust is on the majority of the thread of the bolt, not just the back few threads. The rust isn't very much at all, but it is all that I saw that was suspect. Also when taking the bolts out and a bit less when putting them in, they would creek like an old ship.

The torque wrench is a Craftsman beam type. It is very old but hasn't seen much use at all. The range is listed as 0-150lbs so I am not at the extreme range of the tool. Hey, I even have the original box. On it, it says guaranteed withing 2% accuracy for the life of the tool. I should take it to the Craftsman store and have them test it I need to do that!

 

I didn't think those beam types go out of adjustment, but I guess it is possible. The click types sometimes do go out, especially if handled roughly & left with tension on them when stored.

Fill us in on what the dealer says about this. I'm curious what their fix will be.

 

I got the car back and had to pay for one new rear hub and 16 lug bolts. Unfortunately the bearing comes with the hub making it even more expensive.

I was told the bolts were cross threaded. I asked how many and was told 2 (the 2 that broke). I asked why they all felt bad if only 2 were cross threaded ... no answer.

When I got home I noticed they had returned my old bolts. There were 12. That means 16 total - my broken 2 = 14. Looks like they broke 2 bolts off. So does that mean a total 4 were cross threaded? I doubt it.

Although I requested all bolts be replaced, they called me a second time and said the mechanic suggested replacing all bolts and asked me if that was ok. I said yes and that is what I wanted from the beginning. So if they all felt bad (as I know they did but it was good to have the mechanic verify that), where they all cross threaded? I highly doubt it.

So to put a close to this I had to come up with some reasonable explanation. I believe that at some time or times, without knowing, the bolts/hub were too hot to work on and I must have distorted the threads by torquing them down to spec. As I posted before, I tried not to do that, but maybe I miss judged how long it takes to cool down or how hot they were. Once that was done, each time the bolts were removed and installed they were probably weakened and made worse. That's the best I can come up with.

So in the future, lug bolts won't be tighten unless the car has been sitting a very long time. If the the bolts ever show a hint of feeling like the old ones did, I am replacing them without hesitation. Even if I had to buy new lug bolts for every year I will own the car, it will be cheaper than what this repair cost me.

Thanks for your help and support guys.

 

First thing I did upon delivery of my car, I got rid of the lug bolts and installed studs. So much easier when swapping wheels.

Jim

 

I thought the same thing & installed studs. While installing the studs I had 2 that stretched. That set off warning bells in my head & it was back to lug bolts for me.

What I've done to make wheel changes easier was to buy a tool off of fleaBay that screws in the hub. You hang the wheel on it & install 3 bolts. Remove the tool & install the last one. Easy as pie.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...ksid=p3907.m32

rwkeating I'm glad you got your problem addressed. I wonder if there was a bad batch of lug bolts produced along the way.