Sure did, I have a 3 gallon Cheeta I carried to the track with an in line valve, not just a slammer. Better than without the dryer, sure - but I'd get diviations in excess of 1.5" especially if it was a turn dominant track (like the Glen).

With N2 I rarley exceeded .125" changes. The biggest I saw ever was just shy of 1/4" (approximatley .22") it was @ Grattan, next worst for me was Putnam Park.

 

first off, Oxygen in a hydrogen atmosphere leads to really big explosions. There is no hydrogen in our atmosphere to speak of, so the worry about oxygen and hydrogen combining is misplaced.

Second, the thermal condcutivites of N2 and 02 differ by a scant 2%. They are both pretty much as close to idea gasses as you'll find, so the pressure temp curves are identical.

This is not spin, it is fact. What steams me about the whole Nitrogen in Tires marketing campaign is that it's based on lies, innuendo and distortion. Why is it done? Who knows but it sure seems like making money off of those that don't know better is the root cause. I've yet to find any single piece of objective data that shows real benefit to those that drive on the street for using water free whatever to fill tires. I have found zillions of those that make a buck off it quoting factually incorrect science and misrepresenting the benefits of the absence of water to the miricle molecule N2!

Use nitrogen for racing? Great! Really one should use whatever is the cheapest way to remove the water. Anything else is just wasted money. If that's a nitrogen generator, that's fine. But really, eliminating the oxygen has nothing to do with your pressure stability at all.

This isn't spin, this is fact. But I'm open minded, show me different and I'll evaluate the data. If it's sound I'll change my tune. But right now, I smell a scam. Who makes money from this? Those that sell N2 generators, and those that sell the service or use it a lure for the customers. Heck, we're not talking about much money.... What does it matter the marketing machines take a little bit out of the pockets of people who don't know enough science to know any better?

In my blog post I posted reference about effusion rates (debunking the claim that oxygen goes faster through rubber), you can find the ideal gas law in any high school chemistry or physics text book. Here is link to thermal conductivy of gasses. This isn't what I call spin, it's settled science. I'd really love to see any real data sets about what is CLAIMED about the benefits of nitrogen in tires. I did a bunch of looking when I wrote my blog post. I did a bunch more for this thread and others that come up from time to time. I haven't found a single one yet. That's not to say they don't exist, but they sure hide really, really well if they do.

So why do I take the time to do all this? What I do with posts like this and the articles I write for MC2 is aimed at creating a more informed buying public that can separate the truth from the BS. With nitrogen in tires, there is much, much more BS than truth out there, that's for sure. Heck, even the Wards article I referenced had factual errors. But I guess Wards doesn't have any scientists writing for them that can point out that they published out and out errors. I have no axe to grind here other than providing real, repeatable and reference information to try and create a more informed buying public. I don't call that spin, and I sure hope that you don't either.

Matt

 

 

wow

I thought I was passionate on this topic . . .

 

If you want Nitrogen in your tires go ahead and do it.

If you do not want nitrogen in your tires Don't do it.

It ain't much different then a lot of crap people put on their cars that may or may not be needed.

 

I still think that the best think was clear tires with Neon. I could make a commercial with mice saying "You can get with this or you can get with that"







Please tell me someone gets that...

 

I've just got "thread hangover" from all the bs in the threads about camshafts.

Anyway, here's why just running a simple water trap on a compressor line left Alex with still significant changes in tire diameter. There is some water in the air, but the amount that can be held in the air depends on tempurature. That's why relative humidity is used as a measure, and also why dew forms.

When air is compressed, the partial pressure of the the water is increased. Often to a point where the excess condenses out and forms a liquid. But the remaining air inside is at 100% relative humidity or thereabouts. So you put a trap in the line and don't take air from the bottom of the tank, and this stops the spitting of water that really screws with painting and the like. But there still is water content in the compressed air. When it expands upon release, the partial pressure drops tons below the "dew point" and the air is dryer than what was compressed in the first place. But it still has water in it.

Really, N2 generators may well be the cheapest way to provide a dry gas for inflating tires. IT sure is low maintenance. Most sorption systems require maintenance as the sorptive material collects more and more water (there is something called dry rite that is often used in gas boxes to keep moisture down. It's regenerated by cooking it in a microwave oven!) I think the cost of ownership of the dry rite would be lower, but one has to keep an eye on it to make sure it's not saturated.

For practical use for those that go to the track, if you can't find nitrogen, try to use air from compressors that have a pretty high set point. The higher the pressure in the tank, the more water will condense out. If you do it at home, run your compressor at as high a pressure as it is safe to do, and you will remove more of the water that way.

Matt

 

The bottom line is that using nitrogen can be useful in certain sensitive applications like racing. However, in every day street use, the effects are hardly measureable and certainly not worth the effort or money. In fact, they may even be detrimental because tire manufacturers design their tires and set their inflation pressure recommendations based on the use of your average air compressor. This means they expect a certain rise in pressure when the tire is warmed up. If you use nitrogen and you don't get that pressure rise, the tire is not running at the actual pressure (pressure range) that it was designed to run at. So, unless you really pay attention to running pressures and temps and then raise your base nitrogen level so that running pressure and temps with nitrogen are similar/same to those with air, you're likely not running the tire at the pressures and temps it was designed to run at.

 

sorry

the bottom line is

nitrogen for street use is snake oil - waste of money - total rip off

but that's just one person's opinion

 

Well, we could maybe shift the subject to, say, politics?

 

trouble maker....

And anyway, if you can get it for free, go ahead! If they ask for money, just say "no thank you"....

Matt

 

I run non standard pressures on every street car- I determine my pressures by super-dilegent measurement of tread depth. OEM pressure = Mostly a good starting point for me.