This is a funny thread. I might point my students to it when we begin to study Animal Farm in a month.

To everyone asking M7 where their product is produced, why, specifically, does it matter? I really want to know; I'm not asking to instigate argument.

To M7 - what is the benefit of not disclosing the information? Again, I'd really like to know. It seems that the less information people have, the more they will create their own, make assumptions, conspiracy theories, etc...

Thanks!

mb

 

To me ... the current M7 coilover design looks like any other Asian / Taiwan design. Due to legal (German) regulations all European coilover manufacturers have fixed length bodies (see Koni, KW, H&R, ASt, ...), whereas Asian produced coilovers have both fixed length and adjustable length coilovers (see Megan, BC, JIC, ...).

Knowing this ... M7 coilovers will be very likely made in Asia as well, what is not a shame. Many Asian products have excellent reputations.

 

Hey Marc,
I'm guessing they want to know because...
1) they want to try and buy them without having to go through M7 or an M7 vendor
2) they just want to reveal the manufacturer to everyone so they can claim rebadging by M7. Look what that did to Palo Uber.
You're right that people will create their own assumptions etc. From what i've read, the ONLY info that has not been mentioned about the M7 coilovers is the manufacturer. Just about all of the details having to do with the performance/adjustability/replacement/rebuilding have been posted. That's all that should really matter to someone who is serious about the product.

I can't speak for M7 about disclosing manufacturer information, but I do know that it has it's pros and cons. I also wouldn't put it past Peter that they are made specifically for M7.

 

That is true. But i believe all of it was posted by M7. (Feel free to correct me as I could be wrong.) What I think the people are looking for is independent verification. I am sure most people wouldn't care much about re-badging (let's face it, history has proven that) if they could be assured that the original manufacturer is reputable and reliable. Insistence to hold on to that info just creates an appearance of impropriety and leaves room for speculation.

 

I knew that this issue will cause a problem here on NAM. The problem is that everyone here is getting very sensitive towards the Vendor of their choice when some questions that are asked genuinely are interpreted as conspiracy theory.

For me, knowing the product origin makes a big difference. The quality is a major issue here. I'm not saying that all Asian products are cheap, but allot of them are. European manufacturers have very strict standards to follow, which gives a much better quality and that's why usually they are more expensive. I have a bunch of products from M7 and I think the quality is nice, but when it comes to a vital part of the operating system then I want to know more. This is one of the main reasons that I joined NAM... to share information on products and help make a better choice.

M7 didn't say that this was "Designed" by Sir Peter and that this is the best CO out there made with NASA quality , so that makes a big difference. I don't think they are deceiving anyone, just "marketing" their new line. No need to trash the vendor on this thread, just plain and simple information.

This issue does not matter to me right now and there is no harm done. Other products are out there and the information about it is more transparent, which puts me at ease towards purchasing as I can do my search and look at the history of the manufacturer. I am just another consumer trying to make a decision on a product and I came to the "M7 Coilover answers and more...." to get some answers, but unfortunately none from M7 till now on my questiones. I must say that I thank riquiscott again for providing most of the answers I needed.

Cheers

 

I cant see any plausible reason why a company with a product to sell would hide the country of manufacture from its prospective customers.
What could they have to hide? Could it be that they are ashamed to be connected to the manufacturer? If they are, what does that say about the mystery manufacturer to prospective customers?

Why is the simple question "where are they manufactured" so hard to answer?.............

 

I, also, don't understand the desire to know what country they're made in.

Who made them, on the other hand, would be nice to know. Not because I care about rebadging, or because I'd be looking for a cheaper source for the same product, but because it would help provide some independent verification on the quality of the coilovers.

 

I lost my enthusiasm to finish the search off, but I think I found one of the early posts on this subject that made me wonder just who makes the coilovers...

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...rs#post1335236

When Randy threw that information out, it certainly made me want to know just who this manufacturer was, since he was suggesting that they have a good track record in the coilover biz.

If they have made products for a "large number of other vehicles", then I'd be able to search for reviews of their products on these other vehicles and see what other people have to say.

 

Fair enough. It makes sense for the discerning customer to have as much information as possible; I don't imagine a vendor thinks it fair to take that away from people spending money on a product, or to allow for a "leap of faith" if it is in fact important to the person, as SNID stated above.

Joaquin's point about rebadging and undercutting is well taken, and I can see that perspective. But I feel like every other company tells you exactly what you're buying. Dinan? Koni. DMH? Cross. Txwerks? AST. So, as snid said, one could do research on those companies and make a more educated decision.

mb

 

IMO M7 has an important share into this "Where are the coilovers manufactured..." hype, since they have explicitely stated in one of their posts that these coilovers are not made in China or anywhere in that region.

However, these coilovers LOOK Taiwanese /Asian ... like Megans, K-sport, ...

Also, it is no secret that M7 gets a lot of their parts from Taiwan ...

 

We tend to understand the value found with Bilstien, H&R, Leda and Koni as a few examples...and CROSS as well since these folks are competing internationally in partnership with BMW, Porsche, and a number of Japanese makes.

The value is part of their respective historical successes in competition, and, on public roads. If M7's coilovers were constructed by Bilstein for example, no problem and no question about quality and performace. We might be left with a few questions regarding the proper application. But there are a lot of off brands emerging and many are not well thought out - not that this is the case with M7...we just don't know...

 

thats what she said.

 

Haha

 

For the people who ask why does it mater who the manufacturer of these shocks is and what country they are based in? Well you could put it like this, I could buy a Swiss made Rolex submariner watch crafted in Rolexes Aegler factory in the town of Biel Switzerland........
Or I could buy a "Swiss made Rolex" crafted in a factory in down town Shanghi. I personally would like to know where the Rolex I was thinking of buying was made and by who?
I think most people would like to have the same info about any product, whether it was shock absorbers, tires, brake pads, or a Rolex............. its not about conspiracy theories or discrimination against Asian manufacturers......... Its about being able to make an informed choice........

 

Yes, and to be more clear, off brands NEED to be a bit more forthcoming since they do not posses the buyer confidence of the brands I wrote about above.

 

OK, so when do we find out the manufacturer?

mb

 

I'd like to know the manufacturer info myself, but I don't get the obsession with needing to know who they are. M7 has a rep at this point, be it good or bad. We as consumers can vote with our dollar. If you distrust M7 or cannot buy their product without knowing more about where it's made, then don't buy it. Just my opinion.

 

That's really true for *any* brands, not just "off-brands". I had never heard of JIC / CROSS coilovers prior to DMH offering them, even though they're evidently a major brand. But knowing the brand allowed me to research the company, find reviews and web postings (both good and bad) from people that have owned them and dealt with the CROSS distributors in the U.S., and my research, coupled with the fact that they have the features that I want, made me comfortable enough with them that I ordered a set today from DMH.

If Don had refused to identify the manufacturer, it wouldn't have made the coilovers themselves any better or worse, but I wouldn't have been comfortable buying them, because I wouldn't have been able to find out anything about them from independent sources. But since he was so forthcoming and helpful with all my questions, not only did he get my money for the coilovers, but I also ordered control arms, a sway bar, and adjustable endlinks from him, so it was a pretty substantial transaction.

 

This comment hits to the heart of the problem (IMO) people have with M7. The idea that a company can be so trusted that they are above full disclosure, or doing their customers the service (and respect) of allowing them to make completely educated decisions is unrealistic. Why should this market be so trusting of M7?

So I digress and admit that you're right, Mini Fireman; M7 leaves it up to the customer to pay the $ or not, need the info or not, trust them or not, back them or not, etc... It's not my cup of tea, so I won't buy their products and cast my vote that way. I guess the real problem is out of people's control - customers will buy these products without all of the information, and M7 will make their money, and everyone will be happy.

mb

 

There's an aspect to this discussion that hasn't been mentioned (unless I missed it, which is very possible ): M7 is selling these under the M7 brand, whereas the other vendors are selling branded products - the afore mentioned Cross, for example. The subtle aspect is that M7 is selling the item as their branded item, so the implication is that M7 has developed the product to their standards & stands behind the product; those that endorse M7's products from previous experience, or word of mouth, or whatever, will take that as being good enough.

I'm not convinced that having a "known" brand name guarantees a good outcome - Megan coilovers, anyone? At the same time, I don't blame anyone for wanting to start with a company with a solid reputation (like Cross), and infer from that reputation that their MINI item will be as good as their items for other cars are reputed to be.

 

Are you implying that this a brand new product?

 

I too don't see what the big deal is about the manufacturer's identity. M7 has had a stern hand in the development of these shocks, and approved the final piece for production. Everybody is basing the quality on the manufacturer, when they produced to what M7 specified. M7 isn't going to risk their reputation on an ill designed shock, or trust an incapable manufacturer. In the end, the quality of the shock will be based on M7's tolerances-- Which is where the Megan shock went wrong. Everybody blames Megan over Pilo's miscalculations, when in reality Megan took reponsiblity while Pilo disappeared.

 

i love how everyone is jumping on the cross is so great suspension bandwagon. has anyone here actually used them? to me they look like every other japanese manufacturers product honestly. but then again thats my opiniono!

 

Right, so why not just tell us who the capable manufacturer is? I bet they'd get MORE customers since the manufacturer is obviously so capable.

Let's keep talking in circles until 1. M7 tells us, 2. someone else finds out, 3. we get independent testing results telling us that these are objectively the greatest things ever.

mb

 

I haven't used the M7's but on monday I was at a shop where they were installing them. It looked to me that the front springs where way to big I don't see how anyones going to be able to run any camber with these things on. Of Course M7 is going to come out with another set of springs so you'll end up paying for them twice. IMHO