How important are these for a car? Im wanting to put some lowering springs on my MCS and everyone is telling me i need to put lower control arms on at the same time, cause without them i cant get a good alignment due to the fact that the stock ones arent very adjustable, and that suspension usually throws the camber out of range for adjust that the stock can do. So how necessary are they?

 

the 05+ have more adjustability than before, i put h-sport springs and was able to get within spec

 

After lowering with H-Sports, I had -1.6 and -1.8 camber in the back. I went with adj. control arms because I was worried I'd have too much camber. Turns out I didn't. But of course, YMMV. If you're going with a lower drop (more than 1") it'll be more out of spec...

 

Im getting some Alta springs (which are actually H&Rs i think) not sure what the drop is.

 

I might be mistaken, but I think there are a couple dif. H&R springs out there. I think these are the most common though, and they lower 1.2 f / 1.3r on an S.

If you're looking at doing it economically, and doing all the work yourself, maybe hold off on the control arms. Of course, on the other hand.. Say you do only springs, get an alignment and find out you have too much camber, then need to go back, do control arms, and get ANOTHER alignment. And if you're not DIYing? Might make sense to buy now.

If nothing else, they're lighter, stronger, and extra bling (for ppl crawling underneath your car).

 

and can cause extra noise, i'm taking out my helix's b/c the heim joints are too loud, I figure I can get aligned w/ the stock ones in just fine

 

Really? I've only had my Helixs on a week now (replaced the lowers only), but have noticed no additional noise from the rear. Did they get nosier as they aged?

 

Can anyone show me where these are and what they look like (stock or aftermarket) on the car.

 

It's time to learn about REALOEM.com. Type it in your browser, and enter the site. Then select your model, year blah blah blah.... When you're at your car, select rear suspension or something like that. You'll see some figures, and if you click on one you get the blow up with the part numbers.

This may seem like a hassle, but it lets you explore the car, find part number, and see how things go together so it's worth learning about it.

Matt

 

If you know the OEM part number you need, are there any dealers/vendors that have online ordering?

 

I've done some via e-mail with Classic Auto Campus, and they give NAM members 20% off in stock parts.... But the best service I've gotten from them is by calling direct.

Matt

 

I think Morristown MINI has online ordering of maintenance parts.

mb

 

I dont need a blow up for diagnostic i was just thinking of seeing what they look like on the car. As in a photograph. Never mind i did my own search and found this.

but can anyone tell me what i am seeing here, is that 2 sets of control arms?

 

No, but yeah. Follow obnoxious' advice. This is a pretty disorienting perspective. I'm not even sure what's going on here and I was the one installing em / taking the picture.

 

Yes, the stock suspension has both an upper and a lower set of control arms, and either set (or both, as shown the picture) can be replaced with aftermarket items.

If you're only going to replace one set, most people go with the lower set, since that's what will give you the additional camber adjustment you need after installing lowering springs, or when trying to optimize your car for autocross or other track use.

Replacing the upper set as well saves some more weight, and gives you additional control of the caster, should you need it. Both the upper and lower arms are physically indentical, so doing the uppers as well just involves just buying an additional pair of whatever arms you decide on.

If your'e planning on autocrossing under SCCA classing rules, there are some potential "gotchas" regarding control arms. They're not legal in Stock class (GS or HS), but that shouldn't be surprising. If you're in STS or STX, you can replace control arms, but only *one* set, either upper or lower. Also, in STS/STX, you can't replace the arms with ones that use a different type of rod end bushing than the stock arms. The stock arms have simple cylindrical rubber bushings, so that means that you can't replace them with arms from Alta or Helix that have heim joints on the ends. Basically, any control arm description that mentions "articulated ends", "heim joints", or "pillow ball" ends wouldn't be class-legal in STS/STX. Arms like the H-Sport that have cylindrical bushings are fine. Again, this only matters if you're considering autocrossing under SCCA classing rules.

 

that if you'd worked your way into the REAL OEM site, you'd be able to answer the questions whenever you have them... And as the blow ups are only of the relavent parts to the function, so you can see what's going on really well. Oh well....

Now the Mini has a "Multi-link" rear suspension. This is really a catch all phrase to mean that it's a suspension that doesn't exactly meet the definition of a "standard" suspension type.

What the Mini really has is a trailing arm rear suspension, with the main suspension member being attatched to the chassis in front of the wheel. The control arms located the wheel end of the trailing arm laterally. The connect to the sub-frame near the center of the car.

Matt

 

Ireland Engineering have adjustable arms with poly bushings. I installed these about 35,000 miles ago. No noise, more control. Heim joints will add to control, but these can be noisy and do not necessarily like the long term pounding public roads offer up. If I drove less on public roads (50-60K per year) I would have installed control arms with hiem joints.

 

Looks nice - what's the red adjustable rod running vertically in the picture?

 

Matt

 

Looks like the Alta?

mb

 

Back to the original ?. Does everyone agree that a drop of 1" or less (H-sport,TSW,etc springs) does not require new control arms and that the stock arms will adjust enough for speck? Dang I sound like Matlock...

 

i guess no one is saying its required unless you want to go through lots of Tires, TSW says you dont need it but they reccomend it.

 

If you consider the JCW kit for a moment...10mm drop, a hair less than 1/2", and the post 05 control arm can compensate (apparently) for the change in camber.

We could assume then that the lower control arm will correct the camber value associated with a 10mm drop. A one inch drop is roughly 2.5 times a 10mm drop. Stock rear camber is about 1.33 deg neg. If you end up somewhere in the 1.5-1.8 deg neg area you should be okay. Obviously this is relative all other suspension considerations...you might need at least 2 deg neg up front.

As a note, tire wear should not be much more than normal with neg camber values below 2 deg up front or in the rear.

 

Webb bar - if you look thru all the crap, you can see the red bushing that holds the bar to the rear sub-frame - to the left of the upper spring perch.

I was on the phone with Don yesterday while your car was in for some work

 

here's a clean car so you can actually see beyond the mud, lol