http://www.altaminiperformance.com/p...esponse-System

Anyone installed these yet? I like the idea but as mentioned in another thread I am worried about the noise.

I would love to hear some opinions. The roads here suck with grooves and I love the idea of keeping the steering tracking to a minimum (or none)...

I really want to know since it is a hard job and I don't want to invest the time to find out otherwise. I don't mind spending the $229 they charge just the hours of cursing under the car could be better spent on another mod should it turn out bad.

Thanks in advance!

chris

 

PU bushings are a better choice

 

How do you know they are better. Cheaper yes. Any experience with them?

 

These are not intended for street applications but rather the road race track. And for track use solid bushings are the best but some organizations/classes do not allow them. If that is the case Delrin is the best choice. PU, from our experience, is not an upgrade over the stock hard rubber. They seem to not take a good set in the corners and make the car hop.

 

Don
Do you have these in Delrin?

 

We can have them Delrin custom made but the price is steep. However, if you are participating in BMW CR in J Prepared I would say the price is worth it (and call me and we can see what we can do). If you are running in D Modified or just doing track events I would say use the Atla PSRS. I just do not like PU for any suspension bushings short of sway bars.
I just received my PSRS last week and am looking forward getting back on the track and testing them out. They are quite an interesting piece and look very nice. The rear of our track car is already solid and this will complete the package.

 

dmh
What about a car that is on the road and does 18-25 hard track days a year. I know the stock bushings just don't hold up and start to pull a part.
Thanks

 

I'd say go with the Alta.

 

Thanks

 

Do these require any additional maintenance compared to the stock or PU?

 

Don-

What are the downsides to the Alta?

I auto-x the car every now and then ( i ran a full season and travelling/work got in the way this past year).

My biggest complaint right now is how quickly the car grabs every bit of road and follows it. The roads here are horrible and have grooves and bumps and everything else under the sun. I want to be able to ride down the road without having to grip the wheel to keep the car from pulling from one side to the other.

Should I get the Alta what problems will I experience?

For the Delrin what is steep? Give me a price so I can understand steep and what is the difference?

Sorry for the questions, just tryin to learn a little more.

thanks!

 

Not sure how you would design a Derlin bushing. I do know that it's very unlikely that it will work at all and will cause huge problems. It just can't be done as far as I can see.
Don't use such ridged bushings for the street if you are at all concerned about your car wandering, because it will.

 

.....also, Delin bushings are considered "solid" so I'm not sure they can be used where the Altas can't.

 

From what I can tell you are using your car more for commuting than autocrossing. Solid bushings are harsh; way harsh. Race car feel is great on the race track but even riding around in the paddock gets tough. Talk about feeling and hearing every bump. I would suggest you stick with the stock bushings (and stay away from PU).
You can replace the rubber insert with Delrin; it's been done. I will not quote a price in the forum but if you call I can help.

 

Don, I do respect your knowlege in this field. I will tell you though that replacing the rear rubber bushing with Delrin will not work. It will bind the suspension up solid. Any travel that you do end up with will be due to the Delrin severly deforming or other parts failing. The geomitry just will not permitt such a bushing. I would recomend you drop a subframe and give it a try. You will see right off the bat that using a solid Delrin bushing is a big mistake.

 

I suggest using the Alta or stock bushings. But concerning Delrin I have seen them in use at VIR on two Minis in November. The same person who makes our BMW bushings made those. Are they safe? I don't know and I don't really want to find out. (I ran 2:14s with the stock bushings all the way around.)

 

DMH
Don when you get the Alta stup in the car canyou give us your impression of how they work and what kind of noise they make if any. Also the car your putting these in, does it get any street use.

Thanks

 

The car they will be installed in will not be on the street but rather the track. However, it does get driven around the paddock area and I can report on that as well as how they are on the track.

 

Thanks again.

 

Larry,
Anytime you start making these bushings solid, the car will wander quite a bit more on the street at lower speeds. Now this is the general rule and I can't say from experience yet that the Mini will do the same.
I think that for street that those inserts may be the way to go, but then again, I have not had first hand experence. I would urge anyone who has actually installed these inserts to really check out if they have in anyway limited the suspension travel without any binding what so ever. The only way to really do this is to remove the strut from the lower a arm and see if the A arm still goes to full compression to full droop without binding.
Understand that the A arm does NOT rotate on the same plane throughout the centerline of this bushing. It actually rocks from side to side, up and down while it spins as it's 'pivot' point is only a single point within that bushing. This is why a solid Derlin bushing can NOT work. If anyone is using such then they don't really understand what they are doing.
The movement of the arm inside that bushing is the reason for the complex looking design of the Alta inserts, though again I have never seen them first hand so that's just a guess.
Two people here on NAM have actually first hand seen how complex this motion is in the rear bushing when I showed it to them myself. Maybe one will see this post and confirm what they saw.

(Sorry for all the typos. I'm not on my own computer)

 

Greg
Didn't meb replace these on his car with the powerflex bushings when he was having problems up frt. I tried to find his post but came up empty. I'm interested in the Alta setup but have never seen how they work like you. I know delrin works from my old 240z days but we're talking a bird of a different color suspension wise. Thanks for your input.
Like you said maybe someone will chime in on the Alta setup.
Thanks

 

I was one of the two guys on here that have seen what Greg's talking about. Randy from M7 is the other one. If the bushing is to be solid, it MUST be like this...

...otherwise there is NO WAY the arm will be able to pivot in it's intended manner.

 

 

This pic may illustrate it better...

Greg's bushing is on the right, and that arm had FULL range of motion up and down, I don't remember what the other bushing was made out of, but that arm would hardly move at all.

 

That bushing on the left was Derlin. You can see how the control arm won't drop and is sticking straight out. Once this is bolted into the chassis, that arm will have 0 motion up and down.