Just picked up my JCW. Love the engine but handling is a little soft for my taste. I know that the JCW suspension is available but there are many others out there. I would like some feedback...Thanks in advance....
HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL !!!

 

I would suggest starting with a larger and adjustable rear sway bar. It's probably the cheapest suspension part to buy and install, and may be enough to make you happy. If not, you'll want one installed anyway.

Scott
90SM

 

hey 90STX, once you lower the car, is it still beneficial to add the bigger RSB? Does it still complement the handling, or does it make the rear too easy to unsettle?

 

I would go with a set of H-Sport Comp sways myself. But, I am biased.

 

How much money are you willing to drop is the real question, yes a rear sway is probably the best part to start, now what size to get is really a personal choice I think, I have a 25.5mm rear which is probably one of the biggest bars avaible and many people say that its way to much, but I think its perfect. You really need to know what your looking for. Balance is also very important, if you upgrade the rear you should do the same for the front, ex. rear control arm - front camber plates, they both improve camber

 

Soft? My suspension is so rough if I run over a snake I can tell it's gender.

 

Be careful stating sizes here. Any 25mm bar I know of for the MINI is hollow and will have torsional specs similar to a 22mm solid bar.
In practice hollow bars are better. Same torsional specs and lighter weight.
Why there aren't more hollow bars for the MINI puzzles me. Especially considering how weight conscious the community is.

 

my PSS9's pretty much go from hard to harder on full stiff I literally feel the painted lines on the road, but man does it handle like crazy

 

Yes thanks for catching me on that, I forgot to mention that the bar is hollow. using just my hands it weights the same as the stock 16mm bar.

 

There is a 1" (25.4mm) solid rear swaybar available from H-sport:

http://www.h-sport.com/cgi-bin/EDCst...talogno=22811R
rates: +314% / +394% / +501%

For comparison, here's the 25.5mm hollow H-sport bar:

http://www.h-sport.com/cgi-bin/EDCst...talogno=22810R
rates: +226%, +294% & +383%

I haven't read of anyone using he 1" solid bar, and I cannot imagine using it without tons of other suspension mods too.

 

Hugh,

What do you mean by "soft handling"? Dampening? Body roll? Understeer? Knowing what you're trying to correct and how much $ you have to spend will help in making reccomendations.

 

 

The rear swaybar (mine is the H-sport comp hollow bar) tightened up the feel of the rear end. I recently installed springs over the stock dampers with a higher spring rate and I'm loving the way that the front stiffened up... much less body roll and brake dive up front.

Because the springs brought on some excessive rear camber, I mounted some lower rear control arms to pull 'em back into spec and I'm having the front (fixed) camber plates installed right now (If you are going to have the alignment done anyway, why not get some camber up front as well?).

I've definatley done more to the suspension than I planned, but the rear swaybar and the springs did great things for the handling. I can't wait to get behind the wheel w/ the new mods today!

 

i reckon you've chosen the right mods. The three suspension upgrades the mini needs are:

1) rear swaybar
2) front camber
3) stiffer springs

 

Depends on your end goal and application, but in general, yes... You can go a whole lot deeper into it if you need/want to!

 

And how was it?

 

I might add

4) lower rear control arms to dial back the rear camber from the lower springs (unless someone makes a set of stock height stiffer springs that I haven't heard of)

 

Here's my suspension history:

Stage 1: Rear swaybar - May 2006
I had the H-sport Comp bar installed by Way Motorsports at MOTD 2006. It's a huge, hollow bar... the equivalent of a 21mm solid bar, I think. It definatley flattened out the rear end of the car. I used it on full soft almost all of the time.

Stage 2: Stiffer lowering springs - Nov 2006
The guys at Texas Speedwerks (www.texasspeedwerks.com) installed their new lowering springs. The front end came down 5/8 and the back dropped 1 inch. They have a firmer spring rate, which keeps the front end flatter and drastically reduced brake dive. My car is pretty heavily optioned and I keep a lot of stuff in the boot, so I picked up -2.7 deg of camber in the back and my tires started to wear a bit excessvely. The cornering was great and, with that much camber in the back, I could never shake it loose.

Stage 3: Fixed front camber plates and lower rear control arms
The guys at TSW installed my new Ireland Engineering fixed front camberplates yesterday and did an alignment. I installed new H-sport rear control arms (in the lower position so I could dial back the negative camber that came with the spring install). My setup now looks like this for street driving w/ the occasional track day:

Front Camber: Left: -1.9 Right: -1.5
Rear Camber: Left: -1.5 Right: -1.5

Front Tow: 1/8" TOTAL toe in (0.14 degrees)
Rear Tow: 1/8" TOTAL toe out (-0.14 degrees)

The rear swaybar will be staying on full soft for day-to-day driving for now.

After picking up the car, I ran out to an empty parking lot and took some sharp turns. The back end stayed in line as long as I stayed on the gas, when I lifted, the back end just started coming around but it was very predictable. No matter how hard or suddenly I lifted, it was all very neutral. The whole car is very, VERY flat. I've never felt it turn in so sharply! I wound up making a hard u-turn at 20-30 MPH in about 2/3 of the radius that I used to. The steering is lighter than before and it's definately more crisp.

The MINI was always a bit twitchy on the highway, but now it's insane. It's very predictable and controlable, but you have to keep a steady hand and I'm learning not to over-react in almost every corner. It definately doesn't require the same steering input that it used do and I find myself on the inside of almost every turn where I used to be pushed out to the far side of my lane. It's very cool... I've just got to get used to the car. I can't wait to try autocross now and I'm really looking forward to new (non-runflat) tires in the spring and a track day this summer to really explore the limits.

 

Just for clarification, the 1/8" was the total toe...

I was thinking more about the difference in camber in the front, and I believe shop that did your repairs may not have gotten everything back exactly right on that side...

 

It’s twitchy because you’re running toe out in the rear.

After you put a hundred miles on the car have another alignment, the rubber bushings on the fixed camber plates will settle dropping the ride height (1/4 inch), thereby increasing negative camber and subsequently affecting front toe-in.

The left & right front camber disparity can be reduced a small amount by shifting the strut mounts. Lift the front wheels off the ground, loosen the guide support nuts, pull the left strut towards the outside & tighten the nuts, push the right towards the inside & tighten the nuts. There’s enough space in the strut tower holes to reduce the difference a couple tenths of a degree (if the plates aren’t at those mounting limits already). Be sure to check for spring clearance on the driver’s side with the strut compressed.

Both suggestions are splitting hairs since suspension movement is dynamic and any amount of ballistic travel will alter settings, but if you have Libran tendencies it will look better on paper.

 

Hmm,

Were you sitting in the car when camber/toe was adjusted?

If not it would appear to be an even greater disparity on the camber when you are in the car.

FWIW, I usually sit in the car when alignment is being done.

I've had from -1.9 to -2.4 (-2.4 for auto-x) in front and from -1.2 to -1.5 in back. Car wasn't twitchy on street settings unless I asked for more toe out in front or in back.

As a rule, if you want street turn-in good but not making the car too twitchy (a matter of taste here), I'd suggest 0 toe-out for front and 1/8 toe-in for rear. For auto-x, I'd just increase the front toe-out to 1/8 or so (but remembering that an increase in camber in front for auto-x results in a decrease in toe-out in front).

 

We tried the shifting the plates trick on both sides and it didn't make a huge difference - at least nothing perceptible on our Smartcamber gauge. We're using trackside alignment tools (which are surprisingly accurate), so the caveat is that a full alignment at some point in the future is a good idea...

When a lot of people report their car is 'twitchy', I always need more information or to drive the car... Twitchy under acceleration, braking, cornering, steady state cornering vs. increasing/decreasing radius, etc.? IMHO, when people install camber plates, the twitchyness reported is almost always the difference in how sharp the turn-in becomes and the improved steering response. With plates, it's very easy to over-control the car, and you have to pay a whole lot more attention while driving (alignment being an important consideration, but you still have to pay more attention regardless of the settings). It's why mucking about with camber is a decision that people shouldn't make lightly - yes, the difference in cornering grip, turn-in, and steering response rocks, BUT there is a price you pay.

When I test drove the car, I thought it was rock solid in all situations, as I hit a wide variety of corners, etc. - but then again, I'm used to driving with camber plates and a more aggressive alignment.

I do agree that the toe out in the rear isn't the best situation - but, without 4 adjustable control arms not much that you can do about it...

We did have to modify the driver's strut tower, taking out those two ridges... There's plenty of clearance...

 

The car had weight in the driver's seat, yup. Since he's using the Ireland fixed camber plates, you can't change anything up front, save maybe a 0.1 difference by moving the plates in the mounting holes...

For AX, I like 1/8" toe out up front and 0 toe in the rear...

 

Sorry, somehow I missed the Ireland part...

 

I did not mean to use "Twitchy" in a negative way... It is definately more control over the car than I'm used to. I was very surprised at how much more turn-in control I have and I am definately over-correcting in most turns right now. The worst thing about the changes will be the wear on my tires from the speed at which I'm now whipping around corners! I'm still gaining confidence in the car, but I keep asking it to do what would have been impossible before and it hasn't rejected any of my requests yet! The current suspension far exceeds my ability to use it right now, but I'm workin' on it.

I was hoping to get away with just doing the adjustable lower rear control arms. When I feel like going the next step with the suspension, I'll probably add a set of upper arms and dial the rear toe back. There isn't much anyone can do about the rear toe until I get that fixed.

I was in touch with a local tuner shop w/ Hunter alignment equipment this morning... I'll probably see them in a few weeks for a full alignment when my finances settle after the holidays and the new suspension gear has seen plenty of time & miles to settle in.