Yes, we will consult with anyone who wants something totally custom... In that case, you can specify spring rates and valving ratios and get exactly what you want. In that case, the suspension is completely built for you, to your specs...

But, we have installed, beat the heck out of, and tweaked three custom suspensions that we'll offer as products so you don't have to consult us... We've spent countless hours dialing spring rates for each system, and tested, and tweaked, and settled on a specific spring rate and valving for each suspension. On the Hardcore system alone, we went through quite a few sets of Hypercoils to get exactly what we wanted... Of course, product testing was and is FUN!

Sport - non-adjustable Leda coilovers, Leda special wind front springs, Hypercoil rears. Valving is matched to the springs. Street friendly spring rate that'll still work great for the track. This setup runs $1795.

Softcore - adjustable Leda coilovers (external **** on body, maintains valving ratio but can be dialed in to suit your track, course, or needs), Leda special wind front springs, Hypercoil rears. Still street friendly, but definitely more autocross and track oriented. Works great as a dual-purpose setup for people willing to sacrifice a bit of ride comfort - this system still rides great on the street, but it IS firmer. The adjustability is nice, but not everyone wants to mess with tweaking it. This setup is on my daily driver and runs $1995. We will release it shortly, after a bit more testing this weekend at our weekend autocross event (Saturday and Sunday, with a night event on Saturday - great fun!). Our original launch date for the Softcore system was tied to this weekend's event from the very beginning (and yes, I'm a project manager by trade!)...

Hardcore - adjustable Leda coilovers, Hypercoil front and rear springs. Not very street friendly, but it's a track monster. You can drive it on the street, but we don't recommend it. You'll feel everything... It's for the dedicated track car. This setup runs $2195. We've hammered the crap out of this suspension for almost a year now with autocrossing, track work and even the occassional daily drive...

These systems are made for us, to our specs... and can be completely changed whenever you want/need. If you eventually want stiffer spring rates, for instance, sometimes they'll work with what you have - other times not. Depends on how big of a jump you're going for...

Ride height is fairly simple to change, but will take work and/or $ unless you can do it yourself. Take your baseline measurements before you install the suspension - we use the bottom of the turn indicator/reflector on the front flares, and the split on the rear apron on both sides, where the rear arch meets the rear apron. Then, install the suspension with an initial setup. Adjust the spring perches to where you want to start and record that information. Corner balance the car, get an alignment to your specs, and hammer away. If you want to change the ride height, adjust the spring perches. It's easier to do with the wheels off and the car on stands, for sure, but it's also harder to tell how far you've gone. You'll end up adjusting, dropping it down, settling the suspension, and checking ride height, and repeating. If and when you do change ride height, you'll need another session on the scales to ensure your car is properly corner balanced - and you'll want to check the alignment again, too. You can get really, really close to maintaining your original corner weighting if you go up an even amount at all four corners - very close - And, you can check the toe easily enough... but, we still recommend another session on the scales and an alignment.

Coilovers rock, but they do require extra effort and expense (if you don't own a set of scales and alignment tools). There are a LOT of people running around on coilovers that they simply installed and didn't pay someone to properly set up. And, those people usually wonder why they paid $2K for a suspension that doesn't handle like they expected it to... It's imperative that you spend the time or $ to set it up right - that means corner balancing and alignment.

FWIW, based on our testing, a really, really low ride height does NOT make handling better. There is a point where it actually gets worse. We normally shoot for 1-1.5" lower than stock, depending on what a customer wants. They'll go down more than that, but anything lower than 1.5" is not recommended by us. Personally, I like a 1.25" drop - that way, I can still daily drive the car and not scrape on everything.

On the subject of alignment - we like -2.2 degrees of camber up front (with camber plates, obviously), -1.2 in the rear, 1/8" total toe OUT up front and neutral toe (as close to 0 as possible) in the rear for street/track/autocross. With that setup with our suspensions, the car turns in awesome, corners like a bat outta Hades, transitions very quick, and is rock solid stable in the straights.

Normally, you can't achieve neutral toe in the rear without adjustable upper and lower control arms. My car seemed to buck that trend, as the KMAC rear camber kit provided all the adjustment I needed - we got really close to 0 toe and called it quits. You can add more negative camber than -2.2 degrees in the front, but it'll eat front tires on the street even with regular tire rotation. For a dedicated track setup with Hypercoil front springs, you can get a LOT of negative camber up front if you want.

From our installs, we normally see an additional -1.4 degrees of camber in the rear of the MCS (-1.0 gain on the MC, oddly enough, but the MCS does have that battery back there!) with anywhere from a 3/4" to 1.2" drop. That puts it way out from where we want it... You can't dial all that back out with the 05-06 factory adjustment in the rear, so at the very least you need lower control arms. That will allow you to take out the camber, but may not allow you to get to 0 on the toe (which is fine for some people). The front usually gains -0.1-0.2 degrees and ends up around -0.9 degrees. You don't want -2.8 degrees out back and -0.9 up front! If you get the rear to, say, -1.2-1.4 and stick with -0.9 up front, that's actually not too bad to stick with until you want to add camber plates. Not optimal, but okay. The front will tend to eat r-comps with only -0.9, though. Camber plates will alleviate that and definitely make it more fun on the track...

We like to shoot for a 1 degree difference between front and rear camber. Seems to provide the best performance, overall, and is a good compromise. Of course, for pure track work, we'd go for more in the front and accept more variance between front and rear. But, for a daily driver/track/autocross setup, it works well...

Hope I answered all your questions... We mean it when we say, "Track Tested, Track Tough"...

 

One other thing... why Leda?

We approached a lot of middle and upper tier suspension companies with our ideas... Some wanted a LOT more money to develop custom setups, some refused, and some wouldn't offer any custom tuning. The big exception was Leda. They've been great to work with...

We wanted to develop three distinct suspensions in the $2K range. To us, it doesn't make sense for the weekend warrior to spend much more than that on a suspension. If you're going Grand Am racing, sure. But any more then 10% the car's value, and the hardcore enthusiast, like us, ain't gonna even consider it... We wouldn't. With our Leda setup, you get an excellent, totally custom suspension for about what a set of PSS9's run (not to knock the PSS9's, they're great, but you can't do a whole lot to 'em). Are they the best available? Probably not, if you listen to the opinionated suspensionphiles - but we're not about to drop $4K on a set of Motons, White Power, Ohlins, etc. We don't think many others would, either.

Again, being completely honest, margins on high-end suspension stuff are razor thin. We're definitely not offering them to drive a whole lot of revenue. We simply decided on NOT offering what everyone else is offering a long time ago... We wanted something completely custom, something we could tune, and something that would stand up to taking a pounding. We are offering our suspensions to the MINI community because we want to share our experience and engineering... And besides, we know they rock out loud...

 

I'm not knocking your work at all, txworks, as the info your providing is great... but are Ledas the ones that need to be rebuilt regularly? I seem to recall someone else selling a Leda / Hypercoil setup, and people preferring the PSS9s for everything but track only cars because of the rebuilding requirements.

But, I could be wrong and have no personal experience with the Ledas.

 

So with this option you get coilovers that don't require all of the constant maintenance and adjustment that you mentioned every time one wants to change the ride height?

It sounds to me, the 5-10 weekend warrior a year, that the full adjustability is too much. What I'd like to do is get a suspension, Dinan, JCW or yours, get it aligned just right, then live with it. I don't have the funds to constantly be at a shop getting corner balanced or aligned - does the "sport" option require all of that?

mb

 

No, that's not possible. Any time you change the suspension ride height, the alignment (edit - and corner balance) will be, in principal, effected.

I think what he was saying is that their damping of their dampers isn't adjustable on the base system.

And FWIW, I agree with Michael - if I was going to make 1 and only 1 mod to my suspension, it'd be camber plates Or wait, I already changed my shocks and didn't do camber plates... But then, I'm an autocrosser who wants to stay in stock class.

 

Coilovers sound a bit overwhelming to do right to get the most out of them.

mb

 

You can, more or less, "set 'em and forget 'em" - just have the car aligned and corner balanced, and then don't touch it.

Edit - the reason that you want an adjustable spring perch **IS** for corner balancing - NOT for raising and lowering the car "frequently".

I think the Dinan suspension also has adjustable spring perches, no?

 

Some people have said they have had issues with them... To be honest, we haven't seen the same thing to date. We've been running our Softcore setup for quite awhile now, daily driving and autocrossing, and it's held in there just fine. Likewise, our Hardcore setup saw a full autocross season and many, many track days. Seals look great...

It's been my experience that Koni Yellows need rebuilt after every autocross season... shrug. Bilstein SP's don't. I agree that the PSS9 is a great install-it-and-forget-it suspension. There's no such thing as a suspension that will "never" need rebuilt, though. Even the PSS9's will give it up at some point.

 

By non-adjustable I just mean that you can't change the rebound/dampening... You can still change the ride height.

 

And every time one changes the ride height, you recommend also doing an alignment/corner balance?

That would mean on the fly height changes, say at the track, would not be a great idea?

Dinan's shocks are adjustable but the springs are not, as far as I understood.

mb

 

Yes, technically you would - although, the ride height method can get you close as far as corner balancing goes. We normally get within 0.5% on cross weights using this method. We've checked it a bunch... And, alignment's easy enough to check at the track with a few tools...

http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/art1.htm (camber guage rocks!)
http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/smart1.htm (Smart String setup - rocks!)

About the only thing you'd really want to do at the track would be to tweak your corner balancing depending on how many right/left handers there are - IMHO, this is way, way beyond the realm of the weekend track junkie. If you were going racing, sure.

Dinan's shocks (Koni Yellows) are adjustable - ride height is fixed.

 

Just spoke with Jeff from Texas Speedwerks and he convinced me that this is the company I want to purchase from. The sport suspension offers me exactly what I'm looking for, so when I'm ready for it on the scale of suspension mods (see first page), this is the setup I'll buy.

So thanks all for the thread; here is the plan:
- Install h&r 19mm bar (soft setting) and adjustable links to remove the preload.
- Once I'm comfy with that, I'll do front camber plates and set it to -2.2 and nuetral toe.
- Once I'm comfy with that, I'll get the sport suspension, have it corner balanced and re-aligned to bring it back to correct camber specs (-1.5 rear).

I feel confident that this is the best of the both worlds in which I live, and I really appreciate texas speedwerks' philosophy and actions to follow it.

mb

 

Extremely wise progression, grasshopper!

 

I like this 'cause it echos what the instructors at HPDEs say to do. If I do this right, it'll make me a better driver in the end as opposed to having a suspension masking flaws and lack of skill.

mb

 

FYI, I was really surprised by how well my Mini went around tracks completely stock. At this point in my experience with this car, I wonder why I ever touched it...well almost

 

That is another positive, as I see it, to doing it in stages. Who's to say that after the bar and the plates I won't be completely satisfied?

And I totally agree - I'm surprised by it as well. One place that it really hurts me is in the esses at LRP where it pushes really badly through the right hander onto no-name. Now, I should mention that I habitually hit that apex early, so most of it is my fault. Then it scared the sh*t out of me on the uphill when I forgot to take off ASC, the front end lifted, and the program consequently cut power. Again - my fault.

If/when I see the need for a very serious suspension - I'll go with texas speedwerks - they really impressed me.

mb

 

Listen, you know how many times I forget to turn ASC off? Well, almost every first lap of every first session - with folks behind me...thankfully on the warm up lap! Not funny though

When you've completed apexing turn one, look for the door on lady's bathroom - the hut on the hill. Drive right at it until you feel like you're about to run out of pavement. Then turn. you should find yourself squarely on the concrete every time. This came from a formula ford instructor...no power means efficient lines help momentum.

 

Thanks for the tip - that right on to no-name is my nemesis, and it's probably because I'm not setting it up correctly.

I witness what you're saying about momentum last time up there - cobra mustang on r-comps and me coming down the downhill, except I had a lot more speed (eventhough he prolly had to lift to let me pass).

mb

 

That turn - 2 thru 3 is actually my favorite part of the track. I love it! Lots of folks bite it big time there and I cannot figure out why...and hopefully never will

the down hill can get a little funky close to the apex...very bumpy. I stay a about 12-18" off the rumble strip.

I know, i'm off topic.

 

OT is OK with me - I've made my decision.

I put my right tires in that groove in between the track and the rumble strip on the downhill as per an instructor suggestion. If I hit it right, it sucks the car into the apex.

Man I can't wait 'till next season now!

mb

 

Yea it does. But I had problems with my setup; now I know why bumps unsettled my car so much.

 

I've got a whole day's worth of experience at Lime Rock, so I'm an expert. I used that groove right up against the apex curb also.

 

Yea, good point snid - I said it sucks the car into the apex - I just never said I was going that fast haha.

mb

 

That wasn't meant to come across as me saying mb has only 1 day at Lime Rock. I meant that I have only one day there.

Stupid internet.

 

MBCoops, Meb and Snid:

I'm lurking with envy !

Track time sounds very, very fun. May have to try it next summer.