As Randy knows, I've been dying to get my MCS lowered but have been struggling with the fact that my 17" OZ Superleggeras ET37 with 205-45 tires would rub with lowering springs. I didn't want a slammed look, but I was looking for about a 1inch drop to get rid of some of the wheel well gap.

After hearing about others having to trim and so forth with H&R/Eibach/etc. springs and various wheel/tire setups, I had pretty much given up on lowering the car. That was such a bummer too, b/c at that point I had heard that Hotchkis was coming out with lowering springs under their H-Sport division (run by Mark Hotchkis). This was a particular bummer to me b/c I really truly respect Hotchkis as a company, their well thought out research/design/development, and the quality of their products. This all comes from my life before the MCS, when I used to be heavy into the domestic scene (in particular Chevrolets). Most import crowds haven't heard of Hotchkis, b/c up until recently, their focus was primarily on the domestic car and truck scene.

Just as I was about ready to hang it up, I had a chance to talk to J.C. at H-Sport (J.C. has posted before on that "other" Mini board). J.C. told me to swing by their offices in Santa Fe Springs, CA (I live and work approx. 20 miles from them) so that he could have one of their engineers check out my car and give me their opinion on whether or not I would rub with their springs. When I showed up, J.C. went and got Mark Hotchkis to come out and take a look. To make an already long story short, Mark was interested in taking my car in for a little R&D! :smile: He was very interested in seeing how his springs performed with my wheels since he recognized that the OZ's are rather popular with our cars. Not only did they hook me up with a full set of springs, they also set me up with front and rear sway bars!! :smile: Needless to say, I was very pleasantly suprised.

But even more so, I was pleasantly suprised by a number of other things.

Customer Service: Without a doubt, H-Sport has great customer service. Both J.C. and Mark Hotchkis were great to me. J.C. was very helpful from the start. He was very informative and eager to talk to me for how ever long it took to get all my questions answered. The car was finished as promised, on time and ready to go. When they said the car would be ready to be picked up by 1pm on Friday... it was ready at 1pm on Friday. To top it off, Mark gave me updated phone calls on the progress of the install, plus he even updated me with an emailed picture below of the installation! Mark also personally drove me back and forth to and from my work, which was no small feet b/c of the southern california traffic (must've have taken an hour out of his day each time!). During that time, I got a chance to ask about Mark's racing career, the Hotchkis company and life in general. Let me just say, Mark is a real cool guy. Super nice! :smile:

:smile:



_________________
"I live my life a quarter mile at a time...and in that 17 seconds or more, I'm free."

 

nice plug and write up!
One note; according to Randy's compression testing, the H-Sport springs are progressive. This would explain your findings of a nice ride and improved handling.

Cheers,
Ryan

 

Great write-up! From my inexperienced eyes, they look to be progressive in the pic. The springs get closer and closer together as they go up. If that makes any sense.

 

Hmmm, that's odd. It was a long point of discussion with J.C. at Hotchkis that these springs were linear rate. I'll double-check with them. :smile:

PS - Thanks for the compliments guys. :smile:

_________________
"I live my life a quarter mile at a time...and in that 17 seconds or more, I'm free."

 

that would be very odd indeed to be getting mixed information :smile:

Cheers,
Ryan

_________________
Wisdom is not a function of age, but a function of experience.
*Keeper of the CWFAC list*

 

Sorry, no other shots just yet. I plan on taking some this weekend.

 

What are the individual prices for the front and rear swaybars. If they told you since it was a freebie from what I understand. Thanks alot. Been trying to find the prices since I heard about them.

 

I really, really, really, really, really, like the H-sport springs I got from Mini-Motorsport!

If you are thinking of a spring upgrade I highly recommend them. The softer spring rate up front and the progressive rate in the rear is a great balance. It definitely has dialed out quite a bit of understeer. I am running the Madness sway bar on the rear with a stock front sway.

Also, the 40mm offset Rota's with 215/45/16's Falkens are NOT rubbing at all.

I am sure the whole package that Albert is running is fantastic also. I don't think you can loose no matter how you do it. These are quality products. Great job Hotchkis!




_________________
<IMG SRC=https://www.northamericanmotoring.com/albums/album04/bvr.thumb.jpg>

Magnaflow Exhaust, Madness Intake and Rear sway bar, Sparco Torino, Rota Circuit 8, Falken Azenis

 

>>What are the individual prices for the front and rear swaybars.

Don't know about prices separately. Do they even sell them separately?

 

>>I really, really, really, really, really, like the H-sport springs I got from Mini-Motorsport!

Ficcion,

Aren't they great? :smile: Hey, weren't you running H&R's before? If so, can you provide a quick comparison?

Thanks,

Albert

 

Ahh, I dont really care about individual prices anyways. I want the springs and sway bars because of all the stuff I have read on them and they are blue, my favortie color. So I would end up with them all anyways. I know the springs are like $265 from randy. I figure the bars will be also. So I'm guessing around $700 for the springs and both bars. Which is a fair price.

 

>>Ahh, I dont really care about individual prices anyways. I want the springs and sway bars because of all the stuff I have read on them and they are blue, my favortie color. So I would end up with them all anyways. I know the springs are like $265 from randy. I figure the bars will be also. So I'm guessing around $700 for the springs and both bars. Which is a fair price.


I too really like the Hotchkis stuff. I have been the most impressed by the H-Sport springs - by far the best on the market.

The pricing for all of the products are as follows:

Springs: $260 ($5 off for the MCO community - they are usually $265)
Rear control arms 1 pair (lower only) $305 2 pair (upper and lower) $595
Swaybars (front and rear as a kit only) $408
Strut brace (requires drilling one hole in the strut tower) $320

Give me a call if you have any questions on any of these products.

As far as comparing the H&Rs to the H-Sports, it is a night and day difference. The corner balance of the factory rake is maintained with the H-Sports, adn the rate difference front to rear dials out some of the understeer wihtout making the ride overly harsh.

The springs check on a rate tester as progressive - so there is no doubt they are non-linear springs.

Hope that helps!

Randy
720-841-1002

 

Wow, those swaybars are alot cheaper than I thought. I guessed about $500 for both. And that $5 discount. You'll be getting a call from me this summer when I get my s, or an online order if you ever set that up.

 

Actually, I never had the H&R's on my car but I have driven several cars with the H&R's.

The H&R's are good springs but for my needs the H-sports have been much better.

First: The understeer is what I am trying to overcome and the H-sports seem to do a better job at that.

Second: I have a 40mm offset and my wheels rubbed with the H&R setup (I tried them out on Randy's car). I get absolutely no rubbing with the H-sport!

Third: I wanted an even drop keeping the natural rake of the car.


The front end with the stock front sway just digs in and doesn't let go like it did before, it is quite a difference.

A stiffer rear sway coupled with the H-sport springs is the minimum combination I would recomend for a great feel. The rear sway has proved so advantageous in the past I think it is a given.

I don't have the front sway so I have no opinion on that matter but I am sure H-sport has done their home work and it works adjunctively.

 

The h-sports look very nice! What is the size of the rear and front bars? If they are progressive, Do they come with any cover or padding on the dead or low lb. coils?

>>The corner balance of the factory rake is maintained with the H-Sports, adn the rate difference front to rear dials out some of the understeer wihtout making the ride overly harsh.

Are you sure about this idea here? I think that the MINI with a corner weight of almost 2:1 front to rear the idea is to get some of the weight off of the front wheels. These guys are doing all of the work for this poor car. The idea of a FWD car going down more in the rear is to take some of that direct weight and transfer some to the rear wheels. The rake of the MINI , as I understand it, was designed to help the car not look like it was unbalanced when it carried a load (people or stuff) in the rear seats and trunk area.
>>
>>The springs check on a rate tester as progressive - so there is no doubt they are non-linear springs.

What are the spring rates? From what to what?

>>

Thanks

 

>>The pricing for all of the products are as follows:
>>
>>Springs: $260 ($5 off for the MCO community - they are usually $265)
>>Rear control arms 1 pair (lower only) $305 2 pair (upper and lower) $595
>>Swaybars (front and rear as a kit only) $408
>>Strut brace (requires drilling one hole in the strut tower) $320
>>
>>Hope that helps!
>>Randy
>>720-841-1002
__________________________________________________ _____________________________
RANDY: How much for a package deal on the H-Sports equipt?
minus the Strut Brace

 

Spring rates:

H-Sport

Front
1" 173 lb
2" 181 lb
3" 195 lb

Rear
1" 300 lb
2" 325 lb
3" 340 lb
4" 350 lb

Stock

Front
220 lb (linear rate through travel)

Rear
225 lb (linear rate through travel)


As far as the corner balance goes, there is some front bias, but it's not 2:1.

Here are numbers with only 1/4 tank of gas - the rear weights would shift relatively significantly with full tank, as the fuel tank is behind the cg.

LF = 843 lbs RF = 825 lbs
LR = 575 lbs RR = 518 lbs

Hope that helps!

Randy

 

Interesting, Thanks Randy. I have a few more questions about the h-sports but I think I will give them a call on Monday. I am trying to understand the corner weight #s that you posted up here, are they from your car or some one else? Was this done with a driver in the car? The left side of the car looks a little heavy. Did the car have a sunroof? Talk to you soon.

 

>>Spring rates:
>>H-Sport
>>Front
>>1" 173 lb
>>2" 181 lb
>>3" 195 lb
>>Rear
>>1" 300 lb
>>2" 325 lb
>>3" 340 lb
>>4" 350 lb
>>
>>Stock
>>Front
>>220 lb (linear rate through travel)
>>Rear
>>225 lb (linear rate through travel)
>>Randy

I believe I have yet to hear something (anything) negative about Hotchkis products for the Mini. Sometimes it seems a bit odd to hear only praise but I am very glad a company exists where they truly tune the cars for performance rather than looks. Leaving ride-height factors alone for now, just by looking at the spring rate changes you could tell Hotchkis has developed the springs with the main idea that their customers want their cars to perform better! FWD cars tend to understeer as we all know and I am impressed to see they have softened the front end and stiffened the rear. The softer front springs without a doubt will add traction to the front tires coupled with the stiffer rear end making the car rotate even more "neutrally".

I am very tempted to go for these springs and complete sway bar set now even though I had told myself I will not touch the springs/suspension (only sway bars).

My last car had lowering springs installed and I had not bought complementary sport shocks to save money and after half a year the stock shocks weren't doing their job properly at all. If I were to install the H-Sport springs, would I not also need a different set of shocks to handle the extra compression? If I do (i would think so) it would easily add $500 to the pricetag as shocks don't come cheap. :???: Even a 1" change seems like it would be enough to make that difference.

The other drawback to a different suspension was having a lower ride height around the normal streets. After getting the Mini, I realized how much hassle I was putting myself through with the previous car making sure it would clear driveways and speedbumps. The Mini looks somewhat low with the OEM ride height already, so it is hard to believe you can drive the car 1" lower just the same. Anyway, everybody's comments, especially those with aftermarket suspensions, are highly appreciated.

 

I have H&R springs on my MCS now, and I am happy with the way that they perform. Virtually no lean in the corners, but I could use a rear bar. The problem is that they are beating the cr*p out of me. The rear is very bouncy and harsh. It is almost taking the fun out of my daily comute!

I am interested in knowing if the H-sport springs will solve this issue, or whether I should go with coilovers. I would really prefer finding a spring that would solve the issue without the expense of coilovers if I could.

Randy , can you address the comfort issues between the Stock setup, H&Rs and the H-Sports?

Thanks,
Eric

 

I think some of that ride quality is due to your tire combo. The H&Rs don't seem all that much firmer than stock to me. The H-Sports are very similar to stock as far as ride quality goes, and tactile-wise, I don't see a huge difference from H&R to H-Sport to stock (they all seem to provide about the same ride).

As far as the swaybars go, there are advantages to both set-ups, the Madness rear only or the H-Sport complete set. The Madness tends to be slightly firmer in the rear, and aids in the rotation slightly more than the H-Sport set up, and it's cheap. The H-Sport units are tubular, and therefore lighter, and the front is two position. The front is also a bear to install however, and the rear is slightly smaller than the Madness bar. The Madness bar is 22mm and solid. The H-Sport is 27mm front and 19mm rear, and both are tubular.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

Randy
720-841-1002

 

from Cris: "The idea of a FWD car going down more in the rear is to take some of that direct weight and transfer some to the rear wheels."

a true statement with respect to dynamic loading, but not corner weighting. the only way to change the static front/rear weight ratio is by moving ballast, not by changing spring settings. You can change the staitic corner weight ratios with the spring settings (that is the point)

 

>>Spring rates:
>>
>>H-Sport
>>
>>Front
>>1" 173 lb
>>2" 181 lb
>>3" 195 lb
>>
>>Rear
>>1" 300 lb
>>2" 325 lb
>>3" 340 lb
>>4" 350 lb
>>
>>Stock
>>
>>Front
>>220 lb (linear rate through travel)
>>
>>Rear
>>225 lb (linear rate through travel)
>>
>>

What are the rates for the H&R springs?

 

>>One note; according to Randy's compression testing, the H-Sport springs are progressive. This would explain your findings of a nice ride and improved handling.

Ok, just confirmed with Mark Hotchkis. Randy and everyone else is correct. The H-Sport springs are progressive. My bad. ops:

 

>>>>One note; according to Randy's compression testing, the H-Sport springs are progressive. This would explain your findings of a nice ride and improved handling.
>>
>>Ok, just confirmed with Mark Hotchkis. Randy and everyone else is correct. The H-Sport springs are progressive. My bad. ops:

I know exactly what happened here. H-Sport had several different sets of springs they were developing to determine what was the correct way to go. JC had the original sheet from Mark with the description of the springs - and they were linear. Those never cam to market, and, as you confirmed Albert, the springs on the market are the progressive rates that were posted above.

So you were just misinformed. Hope that clears it up!

Randy