Coolio!

Very intereted in the bar. The bushings also, but I'm guessing you'll want to keep them with the arms...

Keep me in the loop. Hope you get what you want with your swap...

 

002, sorry, I haven't been here for a while. You may be right. We'll check it out next time we're under there and will advise.

 

Took me second to spot it in the pic, but that's it. I'm not sure if or how the bushing in the support bracket is coming out, but please let us know how it goes.

 

[quote=pure&simple] Also, the H-sport front swaybar is coming out, and the OEM bar is going back in, also with Powerflex bushings. [quote]

pure & simple, if you're looking for powerflex bushings for the stock sway bar, make me an offer I can't refuse, I have a spare set around.

 

J Propane, appreciate the offer... unfortunately, they're already en route from BimmerWorld.

 

The bushing sets arrived today and I’ve decided not to install the support kit. If anyone is interested, you can have them for $20 shipped. There is a caveat in that the control arm end has to be tapped with a M14.

It appears the outer bushing could benefit from some method of securing it to the carrier. I can’t see roughing the metal alone holding it in place and not allowing it to spin.

 

Have you put them in yet? The outer bushing isn't going anywhere, especially not spinning. Besides, there is very little resistance to inner bushings rotoation.

 

I agree that I can not see the outer bushing moving. It is a very tight squeeze to get it in and it has a significant lip to help hold it. Also there should be little rotational or longitudinal force applied to it as the inner part rotates and slides smoothly within it (if you lubricate it as suppied). I did tap and install the Motorsports kit for added security. I do not think this will come in play in even spirited street use. I do think it will be usefull in hard bumpy breaking zones at the track (10A and 6 at Road Atlanta). I had problems with wheel hop/wable and extreem toe out in these spots before.
I took pictures of the full install and will pst them when I have more time.
Wes

 

I've got nearly 1,500 miles of aggressive commute driving on mine...so far no problems. I can say that these bushings along with the Megans and Webb bar allow me to place this thing just about anywhere any time. Lots of fun, but the stupid factor is being dialed out.

 

I have my front control arm powerflex bushings - with motorsports support kit on now. At the same time I did Koni FSDs and Ireland fixed camber plates. This is an excellent combination. Almost exactly what I was hoping for. I picked up some road noise with the bushings, but now have a much more refined ride over sharp jolts like broken concrete. All the slop from the badly worn from bushings are gone and control is much more precise. I still need to do the rears - we are in monsoon week now in atlanta. I will be at Road Atlanta in about three weeks and will report back. I hope my braking will be much more stable. I took lots of pictures and may try to make a to do. I partly dropped the frame here on jack stands - what a pain.
Wes

 

I just installed these bad boys while I had the subframe down for the new tranny install... WOW! What a difference... The car feels nice and solid now, less twitchy and hunts less during hard acceleration.

 

I thought you installed the Alta kit?

 

Mike@txwerks installed the Alta PSRS... I installed the Powerflex. We're doing a little head-to-head comparo.

When we're both at AMVIV (he's in CA), we're going to drive each other's cars and do some comparos...

 

Well alrighty then!

 

Hey, why not? We've got two modded MINIs that are similar other than these bushings. It will make for a good test.

 

But the answer is already known. No serious race/track participant runs with PU because they just kind of squish and make the car not take a good set. If you cannot run solid the next best choice is Delrin followed by hard rubber such as the stock.

 

I consider myself a hardcore motorsports enthusiast - but, my car is STILL daily driven. Solid mounts or Delrin would be completely and utterly insane on a daily driven street car - NVH, for one, and adding craploads of maintenance, two. I know very, very few people (except the most insane of my track buddies) that run such mounts on the street.

So, I vote for PU or something like the Alta PSRS on a street car - the car takes a wicked set in comparison to the crappy OEM rubber.

 

Somebody is confused here?
Alta: "The ALTA Performance PSRS replaces the front lower control arm mounts with a solid connection."
For race cars I would suggest the PSRS. For street driven track cars I would suggest new stock bushings. Under no circumstance would I suggest PU. (If your having issues under hard, high speed braking you might want to look at the damper and/or the caliper flexing.)
...just trying to share decades of experience and 6 club level road racing National championships from John Paton, Precision’s driver..

 

Don,

You and I have discussed the P-flex bushing. I'm not sure I fully understand why you don't like these. I'm not sure these are the best peices for me either, but I'm still working with other 'stuff' that absolutely does not work. So, I cannot tether the bushings to (bad) car behavior...yet. I can only assume that these limit the LCA's range of motion.

The Alta piece incorporates some anti-dive, which isn't exactly a great thing either. So stock may be the best.

 

meb-
All I am willing to divulge about PU bushings is if they worked either manufacturers would use them or winning racers would use them. But neither does (and that ought to be a hint as to why we don't recommend their use).
People sell all sorts of things for cars that do not work. Their interest is not in performance but rather sales. Do the Asian knock-off dampers ring a bell -- as in your accident at Lime Rock?
I only responded to this thread because a poster said he was going to report back on the PU bushings after he tested them at Road Atlanta. But PU bushings have been around for a long time – these are nothing new. What sort of information does one expect to glean from this? The world of Mini’s does not operate outside the physics of the world we actually live in.
Don

 

I agree that the PSRS (or something like it) would be a better choice for the track. The PSRS setup seems to be working fine for some dual-use cars, too (like Mike's, although he drives his only on occassion on the street). I would be interested in the longevity of such a solution.

I'm not sure why the Powerflex units wouldn't measure up, though, for a dual use car... From everything we could tell during installation, they were thoughtfully engineered - the compliance spacer, the two piece design of the bushings (with a freely rotating insert) appear that they will work extremely well. They provide nearly the same range of motion, without the squidgyness of the OEM rubber bushings. The durometers of the insert and outer piece are slightly different.

I don't mind dropping the subframe to maintain them... We've used PU bushings in a LOT of other dual use cars with zero issues over the last 20 years - for autocross and track work. If all it takes is a bit of anti-seize on the inserts (for this particular application) or some lubrication, I don't mind that at all...

So, please explain the reasoning and data behind the anti-PU sentiment... I'd like to understand why you believe them to be a poor choice, instead of just getting an "I wouldn't use them and I have decades of experience and 6 club level road racing National Championships" commentary... I am certain there's a better reason?

I'm having no issues under high speed braking, unlike Mike who was having that issue... My car simply felt a bit darty during acceleration and in fast sweepers - the alignment is spot on and everything else was in great shape, so I gave the a-arm bushings a shot. They were a bit dodgy when I took them out - and now, that dartyness is gone. While I haven't tested it on the track yet, I would expect them to load a whole lot more consistantly than the OEM rubber inserts - based on observations in fast sweepers, that's exactly the way they are behaving at this point.

 

Manufacturers don't use PU because it requires more maintenance and a watchful eye (meaning you actually have to do something to keep them happy), and not everyone would be happy with the NVH - racers don't use them because solid mounts or other mounts are preferred.

 

My point, exactly. So why would I ever recommend them as the street is all about comfort and easy of use and the track is all about speed?
Thus, the best compromise are the stock bushings.

 

and there are two. Don's favorite is that they don't take a set, and squirm a bit. This leads to a decrease in cornering behaviour. And from a couple guys where it gets cold, the comments are that they stiffen A LOT with temp changes, leading to inconsistant behaviour and really, really bad road manners in cold weather.

The upside is better control arm location for street driving, with smaller increases to NVH than solid.

The Alta PSRS uses what looks to be a delrin sphere in the bushing, so not full solid metal, but a lot less Delrin than a powerflex like construction would use (if it were made of Delrin).

As far as install time, give youreself a day and a half the first time throuhg. About 3-4 hours if you've done it all before!

Matt

 

Good point, and I generally agree... BUT, for us hardcore AX'ers and track monkeys that are forced to drive our cars every day, I don't mind a little extra NVH and maintenance associated with PU - but don't want solid or Delrin mounts. And, the OEM rubber bushings are not optimal for this application... To me, the best compromise in that case would be the PU bushings, and the PU is definitely better than OEM.

From my experience with PU, I would say that they allow the components to behave as intended, without imparting any wierdness like rubber bushings - not as well as solid mounts, no, but better than the very squidgy OEM bushings - especially those with voids, like you see in the rear a-arm bushings and lots of other places. While the OEM rubber will generally take a set, I could argue that if anything changes mid-corner that they'll unload and reset. They allow motion in many, many directions.

Luckily, I don't have to worry about major changes in durometer with temps, since we're in a fairly warm clime - but, that would be something to keep in mind.