Suspension The Coilover Thread
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2005
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From: Tucson, AZ
Originally Posted by onasled
I would have to disagree with this common thought. I know some vendors would claim this, but in time I've learned it just is not true. I am speaking of people who want to increase the handling performance of the car and also maybe lower it a bit. Doing this with just the purchase of aftermarket springs is only a short term answer, and still does not give you the quality ride and performance a good coilover will. Eventually aftermarket springs will destroy your front struts, as I've stated before, I give'm 20K miles at most. Within 10K they will start to decline. No, no studies done on my part, just a collection of personal experience and from others, with the addition on common sense.
So, I think coilovers are something to really consider when looking to improve the handling and the look of your Mini.
I also feel that stating that the PSS9s are better then the Megans is unfair at this time. Lets hear first back from those who are using them.
So, I think coilovers are something to really consider when looking to improve the handling and the look of your Mini.
I also feel that stating that the PSS9s are better then the Megans is unfair at this time. Lets hear first back from those who are using them.
We can agree to disagree. I too believe eventually you will need to replace your stock struts with some aftermarket struts, such as Koni yellows. Ater doing them and springs you are talking near the price point of the Megans. But it is the price of entry that is the hurdle for many people. And again, amny people are only going for a look not for a particular ride character.
In regards to which is better, in deference to the original poster's request, I won't debate this further. A good topic for another thread.
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,335
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From: Tucson, AZ
Originally Posted by onasled
Most will not really feel the difference if they don't go as far as corner balancing. The Mini already corner balances very nicely on it's own.
Yes, if you are serious about tracking, then a good corner balance will help get you that 10/10ths.
Yes, if you are serious about tracking, then a good corner balance will help get you that 10/10ths.
OVERDRIVE
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,926
Likes: 40
From: Greensboro, NC
Originally Posted by MSFITOY
Megans right? I don't see this at their site...
Also...what is the real camber adjustment range with the Megan? And do you need to trim the tower to benifit?
Also...what is the real camber adjustment range with the Megan? And do you need to trim the tower to benifit?
OVERDRIVE
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 7,926
Likes: 40
From: Greensboro, NC
Originally Posted by MSFITOY
sorry for the bump as I realize many of you are way ahead of me on this subject but could you fill me in on these basics? Thanks...
Now does anyone know what the camber range is for the Megan? Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeese?
4th Gear
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 550
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From: Portland Oregon
Originally Posted by Dr Obnxs
FWIW, I drove for quite a while with the RDR cabmer plates and no coil overs. While the rake of the car looks different, handling was improved overall with the camber plates.
Matt
Matt
4th Gear
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 550
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From: Portland Oregon
Originally Posted by onasled
Matt, I agree with adjustable droplinks. But it's more important to remove any swaybar preload with them then it is to corner balance. The mini is pretty good if not corner balanced as long as you have proper ride heights. Most will not really feel the difference if they don't go as far as corner balancing. The Mini already corner balances very nicely on it's own.
Yes, if you are serious about tracking, then a good corner balance will help get you that 10/10ths.
Yes, if you are serious about tracking, then a good corner balance will help get you that 10/10ths.
Getting access to the scales seems to be the hard part of corner balancing. I will have to see if I can find access to some locally.
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,301
Likes: 1
Camber is limited by how well the subframe is centered. I can get about 2.5 degrees neg on the left side - driver's side - while the right side I can get a little more than 3 degrees. If the subframe were centered, I imagine I could get pretty close to 3 degrees negative.
Progressive rate springs are very hard to work with...very hard to get a damper to work with the transition changes in rate. Unfortunately, transition areas, as these relate to vehicle dynamics, more often than not either cause a car to spook us or make us feel like gods. Once a car has reached steady state anything it becomes predictable. A progressive rate spring for the track adds complexity to transitions...for both the damper, and, our senses. We humans can sense many more stimuli than we can describe.
Linear rate springs are very predictable and very easy to work with. They also simplify suspension set-up. I think a linear rate spring is the only way to go on a track, but for dual use, it's a personal choice and I would never judge anyone for going that route. I've done it. ...and then, I can imagine an enduro on a bumpy track...I might give up ultimate handling for long distance comfort. It's all a compromise...how thinnly do we want to slice the already thin air?
DKstone has been using the PSS9s for quite a while and he loves them - he's an instructor. Onasled loves...er, loved his. I love the Megans. I can get the car to rotate very nicely, and predictably, with the stock rear bar and the car has plenty of grip..when it's feeling well. Personal preference and past history may play a big role for all of us.
The Megans are made in Asia...I beleive. The cost of labor there is much cheaper than most places on this planet. So, it's hard to call a Megan a cheap alternative. A lot of thought went into these. The PSS9s may suffer from a cost disadvantage having everything to do with the place of manufacturing...and perhaps because progressive rate springs and dampers take longer to R&D. Dunno, just speculation.
I personally like adjustable coilovers. I find these perfectly suitable for the street, but more so for the track.
Progressive rate springs are very hard to work with...very hard to get a damper to work with the transition changes in rate. Unfortunately, transition areas, as these relate to vehicle dynamics, more often than not either cause a car to spook us or make us feel like gods. Once a car has reached steady state anything it becomes predictable. A progressive rate spring for the track adds complexity to transitions...for both the damper, and, our senses. We humans can sense many more stimuli than we can describe.
Linear rate springs are very predictable and very easy to work with. They also simplify suspension set-up. I think a linear rate spring is the only way to go on a track, but for dual use, it's a personal choice and I would never judge anyone for going that route. I've done it. ...and then, I can imagine an enduro on a bumpy track...I might give up ultimate handling for long distance comfort. It's all a compromise...how thinnly do we want to slice the already thin air?
DKstone has been using the PSS9s for quite a while and he loves them - he's an instructor. Onasled loves...er, loved his. I love the Megans. I can get the car to rotate very nicely, and predictably, with the stock rear bar and the car has plenty of grip..when it's feeling well. Personal preference and past history may play a big role for all of us.
The Megans are made in Asia...I beleive. The cost of labor there is much cheaper than most places on this planet. So, it's hard to call a Megan a cheap alternative. A lot of thought went into these. The PSS9s may suffer from a cost disadvantage having everything to do with the place of manufacturing...and perhaps because progressive rate springs and dampers take longer to R&D. Dunno, just speculation.
I personally like adjustable coilovers. I find these perfectly suitable for the street, but more so for the track.
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,301
Likes: 1
...and let me clarify a but further; a damper's primary role is to control the energy in the springs. The characterisitc of the spring determines the characteristic of the damper. A damper whos valving is too strong for a given spring will cause very sluggish responses because the spring is not allowed to return to its set ride height quickly enough. A damper that is too weak for a given spring will allow very erratic spring behavior because the spring is not being controlled properly. A progressive rate spring has the behavior of both these scenerios - as a generalization. This makes designing a damper very, very difficult.
Is the PSS9 system a more sophisticated set-up? In a sense, I think so. But it is designed for a
broad(er) purpose.
Is the PSS9 system a more sophisticated set-up? In a sense, I think so. But it is designed for a
broad(er) purpose.
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