And still no data.
Quantifying strut tower movement is not about feelings. It is about measurement.
If a strut tower does not move or something else fixed does not move in relation to it, then what purpose would a strut brace be serving?
The components of handling are numerically quantifiable; pitch, yaw, grip, etc., can all be measured. Chassis flex can also be measured.

 

I still say that the improvment can be noticed where it is most important, on the road, and I am willing to put cash up to prove it , are you ? Maby $100 isn't enough of an incentive , lets make it $ 200.

Randy
m7 Tuning

 

I've been a member of NAM for a long time and this is my first post. As I paid off my MCS and decided to keep it for a long time, I looked for any mods on the market that can give me a peace of mind. My Mini is 2003 MCS with 17" S-lites in winter and 17" SSR GT3 in summer.

Mushroom effects seem quite scary given that I absolutely hate potholes but still run into a few when there's no room to steer around. I installed M7 strut brace, immediately the front of the car feels tighter, when going over uneven surfaces, the car holds itself much better. Only when you happen to go over a bump by two front wheels at the exact same time, the car bumps more than before, which I can easily avoid by steering a bit and go over them with a slight angle.

Steering response was faster, I found myself turning into corners slightly earlier than what I usually expect. The front of the car seems to turn faster I think. What I was not happy was that the car started to understeer. I had H-sport 22mm rear sway bar in the middle setting, which gave me neutral handling before installing the brace. However, after putting the brace, the car went back to as if I didn't install the sway bar. What a major disappointment!

Luckily, I stiffened the rear by adjusting the sway bar to its stiffest setting and the handling all went back to neutral. Now the car feels tight and much more comfortable around downtown area with potholes, bumps everywhere.

People don't actually believe the effect of the brace. I had a few people looking at the brace in my car and talked to each other "this thing is not useful, just a show". Well, what can I say? I have no interest of opening the hood just to "show off".

For $200, I would say it's a very good value to get a tighter front (provided you have better rear swaybar), and insurance that mushroom effect will be reduced.

 

I agree numbers are good, but...

If a $200 mod dropped your autocross / track times a noticable amount, you'd be happy.

What if it was all placebo effect?

I have no experience at all with strut braces, but there is something to be said for a mod that makes you more confident in the car, even if it doesn't really do anything.

 

Assertions are proven with test data.

 

Products are proven by happy customers with real world results . See above

Which STB's do you have experience with that have not worked out for you? You seem quite sure that they do not work so you must have some hands on experience or are you just guessing?

You seem to keep overlooking the part where I say I am sure I will feel a positive differance on YOUR car. Are you interested in really finding out if they work or just enjoy test driving the computer.What is realy important to you anyway, the way your car performs or the numbers? I will be at the Dragon or can meet you anywhere in So. Cal. I am willing to put up the cash as I know what the results will be. I've done it several times for fun already. How sure are YOU that they do not work ? Talk is cheap

Just to be clear I am not asserting that OUR brace is the only one that works. There are several out there that do as well. The " great strut tower brace " debate is just something I have had fun debating since way back in 8/02. I just have to bring it back for the new guys every so often. Nothing personal Have a great day.

Randy
M7 Tuining

 

Results are exactly what I have asked for, to no avail. I'm almost as astounded by the lack of data as I am by the attack on the necessity of data in defense of not presenting any.
Not at all. I simply asked for quantifiable data and have gotten only opinion and obfuscation instead.
Not overlooking, ignoring--because it is simply more obfuscation and not data.
Performance would be somewhat quantified if you'd provide the numbers.
I'm not driving 3000 miles to the west coast any time soon, especially to receive more talk in lieu of test results.
I never said they did not work. I asked for test data to prove whether or not they do work.
My point exactly.

 

I don't get it, do you also go asking for data on a rear sway bar?

 

No response to this?

In such a scenario, if the strut tower does not move and is not going to move, what is the effect of the strut brace?

 

Mcs2004 I will be at the dragon for 4 days which is 3,000 miles closer . Lets make it more interesting . $ 300 says I can drive YOUR car and tell the differance. What is more important the results or the numbers? This whole thread reminds me of the good old Andy days . You don't happen to know him do you ?

Randy
m7 Tuning

 

I would ask for a basic guarantee that an aftermarket anti-sway bar should presumably meet its claimed stiffness. But even that is simple logic. If the manufacturer can simply provide the grade of steel and the thickness of the bar, then the expected rigidity can be roughly deduced.

However, in general with regard to anti-sway bars the impact that stiffer bars offer mitigates a condition known to exist on all cars, and that impact has been quantified reasonably well through the decades. Indeed, degrees of body roll have actually been measured against anti-sway bars of varying thicknesses. Put another way, the number of degrees a car leans during turns is measurable and for many cars has been measured with different anti-sway bars.

There is just no question that the MINI suffers from a certain amount of body roll in the turns with stock anti-sway bars. In contrast there is not yet no question that the MINI's strut towers move when particular forces are applied to the chassis. So I asked for data confirming that the strut towers do move to resolve that question.

 

I recall that Andy would provide at least rudimentary test results (numbers) even when he was just screwing around with his car as shown in the thread linked below.
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ad.php?t=25654

 

Well there isn't anything good on TV at the moment damn NASCAR LOL so lets keep this going I have a partially closed road that I use to get a feel for changes I make on the car. I have been up this road several hundered times in the 4 years I have been working on the car .Before I put 4 out of 5 different STB's on the car I would get fender rub a total of 5 times 2 on the left and 3 on the right at a sustained speed of 55 MPH.So for a number we have 5 rubs without a proper bar and 0 rubs with a good one.


For the numbers guys

5 without a good bar
0 with a good bar

As for our little bet The dragon isnt that far from Lowell Mass so come on down and have some free lunch. If the suspence won't kill you I will be in CT for XMAS and I would be happy to prove it to you then.

Randy
M7 Tuning

 

So you do know Andy. Its all becoming clear now LOL . Ok well Andy and I went round and round on this back in the day , way before we even had one in our own lineup. He was saying much of the same thing on NAM . Numbers Numbers Number, the mini is too stiff , it dosesn't need a strut tower brace, you are waisting your money etc. Well as it turned out as usual with him it was more of a crusade against a person / company than the truth as I was able to find this on another board one day. Needless to say it was the end of the discussion


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Randy
M7 Tuning

 

Nice work Randy!

 

Hi,

I drive my car hard (or for you with a sick twisted mind I drive my car in a very aggressive manor) on a daily basis. My route every other day is across the GWB and onto the Westside Highway into NYC,one of the most tricky places I have ever driven (in 32 states) having NY drivers very close together at speeds over the limit lets say . I had a Ben Fer strut brace and I thought I noticed a difference .

Then one day I sold my Ben Fer and ordered a M7 strut brace. When I sold my BF strut brace I was in shock as to how flexy and sloppy the front end felt. Then a week or so later with a 1/4 inch hood bulge came my M7 brace....WOW what a difference in my cars handling The front bar and rear sway bar will be my first mods on my next MCS , not my last (oops)

The proof is in pudding as they say......I would tell you to read my sig and you will see that I have a sweet mix.

 

Owned.

 

But But But this couldn't possibley be true. You have NO NUMBERS !

Randy
M7 tuning

 

Hey Mr Vendor!......you must be skipping some of what I wrote!

I used the #32 and 1/4 in my post....these are #s and should be of value!

 

I would say almost the same thing about Strut braces. Perhaps not in the public domain, because I don't know of very many mass produced vehicles that have front sway bars. But let's look at some very high performance vehicles under the hood:

I think the BMW M3 CSL counts, wouldn't you say?



Or the M6. It's got one, too!



Aston Martin sure likes to brace their Vantage:



And the Vanquish:



Dodge even managed to put on in the Viper.



So, I'll let you go ahead and call all these manufacturers and let them know that they really don't need that brace. Let us know how it goes!

 

Will

 

...can I include pics of my 200,000 mile Si with upper and lower, front and rear strut braces? These made a huuuuuuuuuuge difference in that car, the upper rear especially.

 

Can we get to the real controversy? Why is there no M7 strut brace for the Cooper?

 

It lifts my bonnet up a couple of cm. I'd reckon it would lift an MC bonnet up an inch or two. You could just drive around with a string tying your bonnet to your bumper. Get some cool air in that engine bay and make some horsepower.

 

Show me the numbers that proves you need one ! Just kidding I will talk it over with my partner but no promises .

Randy
M7 Tuning