Yes. ~$3.5K if I remember correctly.

One other thing to make sure of if you have this done, which I didn't see mentioned here, is to make sure to disconnect at least one side of your stabilizer bars prior to adjusting.

 

How does a full fuel cell vs. empty affect corner balance? In other words, is there an optium fuel level to strive for before the balancing, and what negative affect is created when the fuel weight (amount) is out of that standard?

 

This really depends on when you want you best handling to come in. If your racing on Hoosiers then you may want to have about 2/3 the amount of fuel that you would normally start a race with. If you are on RA1s, then about 1/2 the amount may be better.

 

Onasled's results are about what i got doing it myself on a couple of occasions using a set of longacre scales, but no way could I get as close as a 3 lb differential, more like 5-10 lb. In theory, all you do is turn the coilover nuts, checking the weights (the analogy of the table legs is right on) but there are a few pesky parts. first you need the scrub taken out of the wheels by rolling onto the scales (there are some trick scale supports that can slide a bit) and you need to bounce the suspension to relax it, then the rear coilover nuts are a ***** to get at, so you really need to jack up car, oops! need to roll it back and forth, bounce it...what the f the adjustment didn't change anything...try some more, what the f AGAIN, these weights don't make any sense, its getting worse, not closer. you get the idea.
If I do it again, I'm making a set of ramps so the car is off the ground for access, the ramp surface is even with the scale top surface for rolling. Now that is the ticket.

 

Thats an interesting notion. Certainly it makes sense to consider whether you expect to be doing enduros or sprints and hence more or less fuel load. Whats the theory behind tire type?

There was an interesting thread last year (in which I made of fool of myself ) on this subject that was quite enlightening. Read the posts late in the thread for the interesting bits. http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...rner+balancing

 

Some tires peak out quicker then others. Hoosiers peak out very early and are very fast at that point, but during the second half of a race they start getting slower, and by the last few laps you may have lost several seconds from your best lap. No reason to have your suspension peak out when your tires are slow.
Toyo RA1s are very consistent and though they reach their peak a bit later in a race, they then stay consistent till the end. So, again, have your handling peak anytime you feel is right during that time.
Corner balancing for the street is really not worth the money at all, unless you always carry the same weight in the same place in the car. Also, Minis are very well balanced out of the box.
Even if you start with DEs, corner balancing is still not worth it as you will have an instructor in the car with you most of the time. When you get signed off to solo, then this would be the time to think about corner balancing.

If you go with coilovers then just make sure you also have adjustable drop links so you can remove all and any swaybar preload developed from changing ride heights on all four wheels. This is way more important then corner balancing for road driving.

 

was at Wicks at Los Vegas. After I sent the dampeners properly for the track, it was sweet! My G-Tech showed lateral forces in the high .8s to low .9s, and the stick was the best ever so far. And this was with street tires (nice ones, but still not R-compound)!

Anyway, it worked out very, very nicely.

Matt

 

Did you notice a difference Matt?

Mine goes to Farnbacherloles next week for corner balancing and alignment...if I ever decide on a ride height

 

I'd guess that the car is close to sorted. It stayed planted unless I screwed up, then the rear would break loose a bit. Cornering speeds were good, and I really felt that the limit was now the tires.

As for ride height, I went about 1/2" lower than stock. I have the RDR camber plates, and they take some of the height, and I didn't want to loose too much travel. Also, if you go too low, the front suspension "butterflys" with the lower arm pointing up. In talking to my alignment shop, this can lead to some non-ideal side to side motion of the contact patch as the suspension moves through it's arc.

I've got two days coming up at Thunderhill with the Shelby club in late April, and then the Big Mini Day there in early May, so I'll get a lot more track time on the set up.

Matt

 

Yes, yes! There are a number of geometrys that will cause a wavy track pattern as the suspension moves up and down and this configuration potentially moves the Mini's front end outside the sweet spot. I lowered mine 3/4".


...Also, if you go too low, the front suspension "butterflys" with the lower arm pointing up. In talking to my alignment shop, this can lead to some non-ideal side to side motion of the contact patch as the suspension moves through it's arc.


Matt[/quote]

 

Why exactly is this necessary? Is this necessary if you lower the car only 3/4 of an inch? If you install adjustable drop links, how do you know what to adjust them to? I can't find much discussion on this topic.

So if one were to add coilovers, it looks like you also need adjustable drop links and adjustable rear camber links. Anything else I'm missing?

 

At some angles, due to extreme drops, the links can bind or reach the limit of their travel. The orientation of the swaybar also determines how it works; how far up or down the ends are oriented relative to the bars horizontal centerline.

I have not changed my links yet - waiting to decide upon a new rear swaybar...if a new one at all. My first day with my new setup is tomorrow. I ran the car all day after the alignment and corner balancing with the TD wheels and Toyo RA1s...very nice indeed. The track may prove to be different, however. I'll tomorrow for sure.

 

Coilovers are adjustable in height for two reasons, ride height and corner balancing. When adjusting either of these you are now most likely putting twist on the swaybars (preloading) and that's not a good thing at all. That's where the adjustable drop links come in. Preload is bad and should be neutralized. The only way to do this is to disconnect one front and one rear link. the car needs to be then lowered and balanced with these disconnected. Then with the car's weight on all the tires you need to reach under and reconnect the links and adjust them so there is no tension (preload) on the swaybar.
Meb, not sure how you could have corner balanced without adjustable links..

 

One other oft forgotten advantage of being able to set the ride height is the ability to help fine tune the handling characteristics of the car without resorting to changing spring or shock rates. Theres an excellent article in GRM this month on suspension tuning which is well worth a read and touches on this subject.

 

I responded to your PM Greg. As a repeat here, I was setting up two cars along with a job and family obligations. I simply ran out of time...The endlinks are a casulty of my old brain and too many other things to do. They'll be on very shortly. The lack of adjustable end links was discussed at the shop; there is inevitably some preload. We'll see how tomorrow feels; a track environment is way different than the street. I may be a very sad boy tomorrow...if the preload favors right hand turns I'm in good shape, otherwise... It's all an experiment, well, so long as I live thru it.

Great catch by the way, the endlink thingy

 

RPM racing on LI, they did mine and a fine job they did, cost was about $400 for corner balance and alignment. This how they set my car up:

Total weight w/no driver 2658

weight LF 870 RF 876
height LF 22 1/8" RF 22 1/4"

Left % 49.8 Right % 50.2


weight LR 553 RR 557
height LR 21 3/4" RR 21 7/8"

Scaled with 198lbs in driver seat

Alignment

Front Caster 4.3
Front Camber -1.8
Front Toe 0

Rear Camber -1.6
Rear Toe 1/16"
Total rear Toe 1/8"


Car handles great

 

Wow! That's virtually perfect. So what weighs so damn much on the right side of an MCS that you can put 198 pounds on the drivers seat and still have the left side lower than the right? Very interesting!

 

The engine?

 

Engine? Its transverse and is pretty much on the centerline. I don't know which side the clutch and tranny take off are on, I'll assume the passenger side, but still 198#s? Thats a big number. Either way. If you own a MINI in the UK, this seems like trouble. How do the Brits compensate for this much weight in a RHD version? I'm going to see progress on my track car this morning, I think I'll get my mechanic to pull out the scales and weigh my car if there's time. This has me quite curious.

 

I think the tranny is actually on the driver's side.

 

Now that we all agree drop links are necessary, which ones should I buy?

 

That the drop links will wear out after a while, with the bushings getting a bit sloppy.
As far as who's to buy, get them from whomever you like to do business with!

Matt

 

Can someone clarify if I'm understanding this correctly:

1. Adjustable drop links are needed to eliminate pre-load on the sway bars.

2. This pre-load condition occurs when you lower the vehicle, whether you use coilovers or regular lowering springs.

3. You would need a set of four (front and rear) adjustable drop links.

Thanks in advance.

 

Bushings? I thought it was a heim joint?

 

Actually, not really. One the front and one on the back would cure preload. But, if you want to keep the swaybar parallel to the ground then all four are needed.