I will be doing about 6-8 track days this year. Are camber plates a necessity? I currently haven't lowered the car, but may do so with some H-sport springs or not...I haven't quite decided.

I guess the same question goes for the rear for camber links? Necessary or not.

Feel free to weigh in on any other suspension set up tips.

Thanks in advance for your advice.


Tom Der
2005 MCS Works
1991 M3
1990 535i

 

If you don't get the camber plates, you will simply eat through your tires very fast and very unevenly. I would recommend you upgrade both front plates and rear links to adjust camber all around. The front tires wear out terribly if you drive it fast regardless of the suspension settings.

 

Yup, the outside edges of your tires will disapear instantly. And if you don't rotate you will probably eventually wear the edge of the tire to the cords before the inside of the tire ever even shows any wear at all!

 

You have an '05 MCS works. What suspension upgrades do you have and what wheels are you going to use? What is your budget for tires and upgrades?

Camber plates in the front are about $500 for parts. RDR and Webb plates are worth a look. Once installed you can adjust front camber to about -2.0 to -2.5 degrees depending on your suspension. You'll need the more negative front camber to allow you to reduce wear on the outer edges of the treads on the outside front tire relative to the turns.

I took a set of new heat cycled scrubbed Michelin Pilot sport cups in 205/50-15 mounted on 15x5.5" stock MINI rims to the track and put a pair on the front wheels of a stock MC and on my mid modded autocross alignment tuned MCS (full suspension upgrades, camber plates and rear control arms). The rear tires on both cars were other competition rubber mounted on the same 15x5.5" rims.

We had two 15 minute short track sessions with speeds up to about 90+ mph and turns up to about 65-75 mph. One hard hairpin turn and only 0.8 mile loop. 14 miles on the odometer per session.

On both MINIs (the MC was going fast but not as fast as the MCS) the front outer tire (right side) was nearly toasted on several treads on the outer edges. Not worn to cords but pretty darn chewed up. Not chunking. The wear on the MCS tire was less by about 25%. The left front tires were not badly worn. On the MC right front tire the inner edges of the tire were completely unworn! So negative camber allows you to use more of the total tire so that the outer edges are not destroyed in one day- this can happen depending on which tire you choose and which rim you mount it on.

The rear camber on the MINI is about -1 to -1.5 degrees and the front camber is about -0.1 to -0.5 degrees with stock suspension. The ideal set up is -2.0 to -2.5 in the front and -1.3 to -1.6 in the rear. To get the best results you'd need front toe out 1/16" and zero toe in the rear when doing an alignment. Add a rear adjustable sway arm with setting to the middle hole or firmest (try it out before tracking it). The rear lower adjustable control arms allow for adjusting the rear camber.

If the track has long straightaways then you'd want the front camber not to be too much negative like -2.0 degrees but if the track has many tight high speed turns then more front negative camber can allow for more control and higher speeds in the turns. Everything is a compromise.

You can add either lowering springs such as H-sport or coil overs (more costly but more adjustable). Springs alone will lower your MINI about one inch and increase ride harshness depending on which wheels you use for street or track.

Pay attention to your budget- everything adds up really fast. $2000 for track wheels and tires- these wear out really quick sometimes. I have separate sets for track, autocross, wet autocross/street use. $1000-3000 for suspension upgrades or more.

Don't forget brakes for track- go fast, stop fast. More for the budget- these wear out pretty fast too- depends how hard you use your brakes.

 

bear in mind that limited driver skill can cream your tires. pushing into a turn too hard and understeering will melt those outside edges no matter how much neg camber you have.

 

Minihune,

Thanks for the detailed reply. I typically do New Hampshire International Speedway, Lime Rock Park, and Watkins Glen, and only the latter has relatively high speed straights.

I used Pilot Sport Cups on my E30 M3. Great tire, good grip both dry and damp, and very good life, albeit expensive. It would be a real drag to chew through a pair in one day. Uggh...

Regarding your questions...

I have done nothing to the suspension. This is what I've been researching and posting about over the past few weeks. I'll probably do my purchasing of most of this stuff in the next couple of weeks. My current leanings are toward using H-Sport springs, Webb Camber plates, H-Sport Comp or RSpeed swaybar, and i think just the lower rear arms.

Budget is flexible, as always less is better and I was thinking about starting off using MXs or S-03s and forgo using R-compound with dedicated wheels for track. I'm waffling back and forth on this one..R-compounds really are magic. I'll probably use 15" wheel/tire for track and 16" for street and/or dual use.

I'm also weighing the brake issue...considering going with the standard wildwood kit since it will fit some 15" and most 16" wheels. This one area where I"m might just start with pads and fluid, and see how it feels every my first few events. For better or worse I'm not particularly hard on brakes.

As the saying goes.. how fast you wanna go? How much money you wanna spend? or something like that...

Tom

 

A necessity? I raced in SCCA showroom stock for 5 years in cars that had far worse camber than the Mini. You just have to learn to drive within the car's limits. You may be a bit slower, but you are not competing with anyone but yourself.

 

Tder, with which groups do you run your track days?

 

Typically i'm with BMWCCA, but will also do a few days this year with SCDA. Which runs events here in New England/Northeast at NHIS, Lime Rock Park, and Watkins Glen.


T

 

I did Lime Rock last Monday with SCDA, poured all day. Tuesday with Boston BMWCCA. Will be at NHIS with WMC on the 17th and 18th. Getting a new rear sway bar and want to check it out at the Driving Skills School before getting on track.

BTW, to get back on topic, front camber plates would possibly have helped me to avoid some scalloping on my tires in the rear last season. Though the stiffer sway bar may also help with that. Thoughts?

 

With 2-2.5 degrees of negative camber for track use, will that be ok on the street? Or should the camber be adjusted back to a street setting?

Once the car is lowered, won't the camber go more negative than stock anyways?

matt ma

 

2.5 would be waaaay to much for street unless you drive REALLY aggressively on the street. I would say the best compromise would be about 1.8 for a combo of street and track use. Now if you have an indexed camber plate like an RDR or something then you might not have a problem setting it back for street use.

Yes when you lower the car you should gain some negative camber but nowhere near enough on the MCS. The rear's will usually jump to some crazy number like 2 degree's but the fronts barely move.

 

That was my experience with lowering. Had to get lower adjustable control arms for the rear.