I've seen a lot of threads here talking about lowering the MINI, but what about raising a MINI? I've done several searches, but have had no luck. Personally, from all the driving I do, and in all the different driving conditions, I find the MINI to be a touch low. Especially in snow, or even on some relatively tame dirt roads. Having gotten several days of out of the ordinary snow...I'm finding that the MINI generally handles well...even with stock 15" tires. But...once every other, generally taller, vehicle has gone down a snow covered street (we're talking a few feet of overall snow here), the street becomes impassable to my little MINI. Mainly because of the risk of bottoming out on the hard packed snow and ice between the now very deep tire tracks of those that have gone before me. Using my MINI's front end as an ice plow...does not appeal to me.

While I've been looking at larger tires (185/65-15's, as opposed to the current stock 175/65-15's I'm wearing) to give me a little ground clearance boost, mainly for the sake of my poor lower front plastic air-dam, I'm now thinking an inch or two more might be just the ticket. However, I'm not sure how to go about doing this, as it's clearly not a typical mod for a MINI. I'm curious what kind of mods would have to be done, and what kind of affect they certainly might have on performance. I have an otherwise un-modded MC, with standard Sport Suspension, and DSC.

Understand, I'm not looking at turning my MINI into an SUV wannabe...as I've already had one of those, so no thank you! An inch or two of rise might not seem like enough to make much of a difference, but considering how low the MINI already is...I think it would make for I nice difference. Often times, my biggest problem is some form of obstacle that's just a touch too high for me, usually just a 1/4 of an inch...to one or two inches.

So...any suggestions...that make any practical sense? (Not that raising a MINI makes much practical sense in and of itself, but let's just throw that argument out the window for now, and think of this as a purely hypothetical question, ok? :smile: )

I suppose, if the MINI was raised a bit, I might be able to go for even larger tires than the intended 185/65-15's I've been looking at, but I'm not too sure about that. For now, the tires will likely come first, so there's nothing for it...unless a raised MINI job turned out to be cheap in price, but I'm guessing it won't be.

 

I think the only safe way as of now would be to get a set of coilovers
and raise the height...

Not sure whether the camber is going to be too positive or not when you
raise it too much...also the front will have toe-in so will need to probably
get it re-aligned.


Which way does the rear toe change (in or out) when you raise the
height?


Rollcenter will be higher so your car will roll less...but not sure if that
is a good thing while there is more + camber than stock.

 

Hmmm...coilovers, eh? So, as far as that part goes, is it just a matter of getting the right size coilovers for the purpose? Or, are coilovers generally adjustable?

I'd not even thought about toe-in and out adjustments for the wheels, but I suspect you are right. That's an area I'd prefer not to have to experiment in over time, but this type of mod might make that unavoidable.

I'm not sure that the rollcenter being higher will make the car roll less. That seems counter-intuitive to what I'd expect. The higher the vehicle, the more "roll" you get, or so it would seem to me. Otherwise, why would roll-overs be a problem for high SUV's? Of course, I might just have my rolling terms all messed up.

No matter what, I expect that lifting the MINI would create a general reduction in some driving performance characteristics of the vehicle, but I don't think any increased roll-over risk is likely to be significant. Fun in the twisties would definitely be reduced, but I have no idea by how much of a margin. (This could possibly be compensated for by stiffening with upgraded sway bars.)

On the other hand, being more generally road worthy...for deep snow, driveways with big dips, and other such typical obstacles...is a big plus in my book. At least it is based on my current experience with the MINI.

 

Coilvers look something like this. This is a KW system.
I think if it's within +1", you'll probably be fine if you get the car
realigned. :smile:

 

Sorry forgot to explain roll center. Im not an instructor or anything so my
explanation may not be very clear. Perhaps jlm can explain it clearer.

Here's how it generally works... if the car was raised without changing
roll center and no geometric or spring rate adjustments were made,
a high roll center with more positive camber on a relatively low center
of gravity car like the MINI could result in more tire scrub than exerting
the lateral G by body roll. The suspension's pivot point or the
'instananeous center' is higher so the car will not roll as much as it
was programmed to do. Since you scrub more, you will most-likely not
encounter a roll-over on this car...rather just plow forward and understeer
into a tree or some thing like that instead.

A quick remedy to this would be to use softer spring rate than stock and
grippier tires.

but again, for your normal driving around, I think you'll be fine as
long as you're within 1" of the original ride height. with the KW's or
most coilover systems, the spring rates are higher than stock so you
can probably even set it close to factory ride height and the car will
not drop as much when you and your passengers get in the car.

Im probably just thinking too much. :smile:

 

Don't know if/how this would work with a Mini ... but in the Jeep world, getting a taller vehicle means taller springs or spring spacers (in addition to bigger tires). Spring spacers are nothing more than a puck that sits between the spring and the spring bucket/perch. Spring spacers come in several sizes - commonly 3/4" to 2".

 

I think that spring spacers would make the car ride stiffer than it does at present. The only way to increase the ride height without sacraficing ride quality would be with the coil overs. You could even set it so you could ride higher during the snow season and lower for the rest of the year if you were so inclined.

 

How cool, I'm starting to get answers. This is becoming exciting. So far, it sounds like coil overs are a good starting place. I've seen the KW set up somewhere, likely in my Moss Motoring catalogue.

Hmmm...KW Inox colovers, yes, I see 'em now. $1,150.00, ouch, though the KW's only seem to be for the MCS. The Spax Sport coilovers are available for the MC, and cost almost as much, but both list height adjustment as being in the 15mm to 50mm LOWER range (actually, KW doesn't specify), which wouldn't seem to do me any good. So now I'm thinking neither one of these coilover sets can do the job I'm looking for. Perhaps I need to consult with a 4x4 specialty shop in my area? I guess it wouldn't hurt, but I'm also guessing I'd need to double check any info they give me here, for more MINI specific advice. I understand that, excluding tires, a lift of 1 1/2 inches does not generally require serious undercarriage modification, though certainly new springs of some sort will be in order. I'm wondering if shock replacement may also be required, and isn't there something special about the MINI shocks?

Just using spacers sounds like it might be an inappropriate quick fix, unless other modifications are made. A camber and caster kit (something in the $300 range?) might be required. And, much like the coilovers, some kits would be lowering oriented, while some might allow some lifting. I think most MINI specific kits would be lowering oriented. Perhaps all MINI kits are?

I think maybe a more thurough online search may be required here. So far, it seems like maybe this has never been done before, but I can't believe that's true. (I can't be the ONLY nutty person out there, can I?)

Today, I'm finally getting my Yokohama 185/65-15 H4S's, which will give me about 1/2 an inch of "lift", and a softer ride (to counter all of MINI's rattles). Maybe I'll change my mind about the lift job after that, but I'm doubting it. 1/2 an inch is just not enough for where I live, work, and play. (Ok, not a lot of the first and last, but definitely a lot of the middle.)

It's interesting to me, that our Winter here in Reno has turned out to be so bad, that one of my fellow drivers gave up on his regular car (I forget what make and model it was), and just bought a used Jeep Cherokee. Not a bad little SUV, and not great either, but he seems happy (at least for now). Funny thing is (we are delivery drivers), it doesn't seem to have helped him make anymore money than me, despite the horrendous road conditions. So, I guess I shouldn't feel too bad tooling around in my little MINI, eh? (But I do, I do, when the side streets of our fair city are essentially impassable to me now. *sigh*)

Keep the info coming folks. It's been very helpful so far. I guess this means I'll have to do a before and after pic thing now, eh? (Someone here was a little disappointed that I didn't post pics of my MINI with cable chains on, but taking pics was not at the top of my mind at the time. Go figure, eh? )

 

Keeping in mind the suspension and steering design of the modern and even the classic mini, you'll open up a whole new box of headache's getting all the geometry right once raised. coils, struts, lower arms, axles, brake lines, sway bar, and not too mention if you use the DSC getting the front sensor remounted so its positioned to function correctly. I say ***** it, let the snow hit the lower valance.

 

Well, previously, I would've said you are right. But, this is not just an issue of protecting the lower valance (though that is certainly an issue). It's also a mobility issue. If road conditions (due to weather, or whatever) prevent my MINI from safely continuing, then I have to do something about it. Otherwise, the MINI becomes a pretty, but otherwise useless, hunk of plastic, rubber, and metal.

To my mind, that is unacceptable, so I'll see what I can realistically do, for my own sake...as well as the MINI's. (If I had a second car, it would be less of an issue, but I've neither a second car, nor a garage to put it in.)

I can understand where you are coming from, opinion wise. MINI's are modded in many different ways, and those mods tend to not appeal to everyone. If they did, MINI's would come out of the factory so modded. Many mods require serious adjustment to various components, so that is nothing new in itself. I don't intend to go extreme with this mod. I like the relatively low stance of the MINI, but I've found it to be troublesome for an every day driver car. So, I just want to change that more to my liking...without going overboard.

 

good luck BillyB, I've been playing with my lowered MINI S in Tahoe the last couple of weekends and would not mind raising it a couple inches just to be able to play in the snow.

Had to take our Geo Metro Conv. back up there afterwards to get our FIX

 

Would it impact that power steering fan thingey?? Might want to think about
purchasing the aftermarket skid plate. Out here in Colorado we figured it was the perfect first mod. It replaces the factory plastic (useless) piece & covers up that little fan.

I'm liking this thread. Our little under spoiler drags on our driveway/road without snow...

Cris

 

I can relate to those driving problems up at Lake Tahoe. I can't even imagine trying to drive up there in the MINI right now. I think it's embarassing that a Geo Metro can do it right now though, and that's certainly not a super high vehicle. (A few inches can make all the difference in the world...or so an old girlfriend once told me. )

I think the whole issue about the power steering fan being easily destroyed by a plastic bag sucked into it is bunk. I've had to scape the bottom of my MINI over more mounds of rock like chunks of icy snow than I care to remember, and I've not had a single problem with my power steering. I've also, previously, driven over one or two plastic bags, all without any harmful result.

On the other hand, I'd hate to see what the underside of my car looks like right now. Everything still works, which is great, but I'll bet there are a lot of new scrapes under there...which could become a problem years down the road. No matter how carefully you drive, that lower front piece of plastic always seems to scrape on something. Bigger tires alone should help avoid that, but I'll still have to replace that particular part. Otherwise, I'd feel I wasn't properly taking care of my car.

 

How about a raised classic Mini?


http://rds.yahoo.com/S=96062883/K=4x...%204x4%202.jpg

 

For winter snow driving your best approach is to get a Tire Rack snow tire package in 175x65x15/185x65x15 (you only gain .4 inch with the latter).
or
I just found Kumho Power Star 758 tires in 165x80x15 for $26.00 ea they are the tallest at 25.4 inch (Tire Rack). Slap them on a set of junk yard Honda or Saturn 15 inch wheels and your set to go for Winter. You could paint them some wild color so people can see you.
Remove the lower air dam and install an aftermarket metal skip plate.

 

Too late. I bought and had the Yokohama 185/65-15 H4S's installed early yesterday. Since I needed to replace one tire anyway, I just went ahead and did this upgrade a little earlier than planned. (Damn pot holes! )

The results have been pretty good. The (nearly) 1/2 inch rise in ground clearance has been of substantially more assistance in preventing bottom out issues than you (or even I) would think, on both dry and unevenly snow packed streets. The Yokohamas have a lot more grip than the factory issue 175/65-15's, though not as positive and sure footed as a true snow tire would be.

I can not afford (for the moment) to have two sets of wheels and tires, even if one set was very cheap. Plus, there is no place in my small studio apartment to put an extra set of "off season" tires. So, that sort of arrangement was just out of the question from the beginning. For someone with a garage, and a little more cash, that would be an excellent idea. Mind you, personally, I'd hate to drive around in my MINI with ugly wheels, even if only for a few months out of the year. Otherwise, I'd have just bought an old Jeep Wagoneer instead, and be done with the whole issue. Not that I have anything against the looks of a jeep. But, lets face it, they just are not MINI's. (Nor will a MINI ever be a Jeep for that matter.)

I have posted a fairly thurough first-impression review of these particular Yokohama tires on another thread related specifically to just "Preventing Bottoming Out In The MINI", so I won't bother with further details here. (Not that I woudn't mind, it's just that my fingers are growing tired. )

I discussed the idea of lifting my MINI with the tire shop where I had the Yokohamas installed. Their opinion, after checking out the MINI undercarriage, was that spacers alone might very well do the trick, W/O having to replace the springs and struts, though a tire adjustment might be required. The only real problem to the project that they could see, was the fact that there may not be a spacer on the market that can properly fit a MINI. They didn't do any measurements, as they were only interested out of semi-idle curiousity. (It's been a busy week for tire stores here in Reno.)

So, I guess I need to find out what exactly to measure, and how, so that I can move onto the step of searching what's available in spacer sizes. There may, or may not, be a spacer that'll fit, but...geez, how much variety in sizes can there be with this sort of thing? I know, every single damn car might be different for all I know, at least in this one area. I just don't have all the answers I need yet.

I do know that my (near) lift of 1/2 an inch from the new tires has been of such significant assistance to my MINI needs...that I now am only looking at boosting the height another single inch. As this idea goes along, I may find that just another 1/2 inch would be good enough.

Adding an aftermarket metal skip plate is a great idea. But, remove the lower air-dam? Isn't it there for a reason? Doesn't it help protect other components? Or help airflow properly to the radiator? Or both? Without it there, I'd have something of a funny, toothless grin sort of, look...don't you think? Arguably, no one else would ever know it's missing (unless they crawled down on their hands and knees to look), but I would know...and that'd drive me nuts.

 

Oh, by the way, I only just now took a look at that pic of a raised classic Mini. All I can say is "wow", and I can't help thinking that's probably a bit too much up. That's not just an inch or two of lift, that's...a foot or more, at least!

High speed cornering, and go cart like feel, are probably no longer possible with that Mini. What a shame, but...very cool nonetheless.

I scanned through an article in one of the, typical grocery store stand, automotive magazines the other day. There was an article about an American company that rebuilds Mini classics with upgraded features, such as Honda VTEC engines. I forget the name of the magazine (maybe it was Car & Driver), but it was a very neat thing to see. Their completely rebuilt to buyer spec Mini classics run from about $19K to about $30K, as I recall, and I felt a momentary pang of regret that I'd not heard of this company before I bought my MINI. Then I remembered how low those old Mini cars were, even with "upgraded" 13" wheels (I think the first Mini models had 10" wheels), and I was sensibly brought back to reality. :smile:

I don't think a 1" lift is a very outrageous modification.

 

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm............


Perhaps you should consider buying a SUV.

 

Hmmm...no, I don't think so. I've had two in the past, both RAV-4's, and they were good vehicles, but I've decided to go the mid-life crisis route. And, by golly, I'm sticking to it!

Anyway, it's just an inch or two. It's not like it's the end of the MINI world we're talking about here. Wasn't there a classic MINI "SUV"? Heck, as I recall, I think you could even get it with wood siding. Don't worry though, I'm not interested in getting wood siding. But, on second thought...hmmm...

No, I'm still not doing it. I don't think it'd go well with my yellow and black color scheme. Now, hmmm...maybe if I had a light blue MINI...?

DragonSlayer, I thought you're local MINI association was open to all MINI body types, both new and old. You're not backing out of that, are you? :smile:

Though my need to raise my MINI is passing (for now), and the lift I've gotten so far is likely sufficient (for now)...I'm still intrigued by the idea of lifting the MINI a bit more, in part because it seems it's never been done before yet (on a new MINI). I do like how my tires nicely fill out my wheel wells, while still not causing any rub problems. It's a cool, strong look. Some people I come across throughout my driving day have even asked me if I've lowered it, because of the appearance of the wheels and tires in relation to the rest of the vehicle. Perhaps they'd not be so quick to make that judgement...if it weren't for the snow level being up to my undercarriage, where they can't see the visible gap between the pavement and the car body. It's sort of funny how our eyes can play tricks on us like that, eh?

I can't help taking a little bit of pride in the fact that, while I'm out on my delivery runs, people are often times surprised to see me on their "winter streets from hell", asking me, "How the heck did you get that tiny little car up here?"

I just smile, and act like the streets really aren't that bad.. (Damn, I really should post some pics of this car in these conditions. It'd give you a better idea of what we've been contending with here, snow wise.)

 

the front coilovers I have fitted (H&R and LEDA) will result in lowering the car about an inch even when the spring adjuster is all the way at the top. the rears have more range. I believe you can get a Leda front coilover with a longer body however. the best place for a spacer is between the bearing plate and the chassis (in the front) and the top plate and the chassis (in the rear.) the shapes are weird and you would need longer bolts.you might have to adjust the sway bar link lengths as well.

 

Ok, Thank you, that's very helpful. I'm going to have to take a look at those areas, and see for myself how "weird" shaped the are is. If it's weird, then the likelyhood of getting a good fit from a spacer built for another vehicle is very low. I'm not likely going to be able to get a custom fit set of spacers made, though it's certainly possible...if there were enough resources at hand for the job.

It looks like I may have to look into other methods. I'll have to check into these LEDA coilovers, and see if the longer body type can be used for lifting the MINI. It'd be cool to be able to raise the MINI for Winter, and lower it back for Summer, just as an early poster had suggested. I don't think my factory sway bars have any built in adjustability, though I'm sure adjustables are available. I'm just not sure they could be adjusted in the right direction for going up, as opposed to the more usual down. When it comes to sway bars, I've always thought that the adjustability, of those that can be adjusted, had more to do with being "tight" or "loose", depending on the end users needs.

Clearly, there is still much for me to learn on this subject. (There may be pretty darn good reasons why a new MINI has never been lifted yet!)

 

to keep the same action of the sway bar, you want to maintain the relationship between the plane of the bar arm and the ground. since one end of the bar arms is effectively mounted to the chassis and the other to the wheel, raisng the chassis will change the plane angle. in the rear, raising the chassis means you need to lengthen the link; in the front you need to shorten the link. Probably changing the length about the same as you raised the chassis.

 

Am I correct in assuming that the factory issue MC front and rear sway bars don't have any adjustability to them? What about adjustable upper and lower conrol arms? There are also adjustable sway bar end links. Can one use one or the other? Or are both likely required? And how about the Camber Magic camber and caster kit (Moss Motors Catalogue)? These allow camber adjustments up to 3 degrees positive or negative, all with just a screwdriver...once installed. There are likely other such kits available as well, though that's the only one I currently know of.